Workshop — Mafia — HeroesWorld

Uranium235

2/25/2016 7:03 AM UTC

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Shaman... In general, some questions. Part one.

1. Is the game planned with reveals, or will there be dark mod kills with reveals/lies?
2. Currently, the ratio is 8-5-1-1-1-1. Not in favor of the town. Yes, I understand that clues reduce the mafia's survivability, but the cults and the maniac will also reduce the town's numbers.
If cuts are necessary, then at least one mafia member can be cut.
3. There are very few recruitables for the two cults. 4 immediately + 1 with protection. The second candidate for a cut is 1 of the cults.
4. Let's assume that 2 cults is a feature and cannot be removed. Then the number of recruitable roles needs to be increased. 1 town member with immunity and 1 with protection is the maximum number of non-recruitable town members, and if the town is cut, then only 1 non-recruitable member can be left.
5. Will the 4 pieces of the amulet be randomly distributed among all players except the cat and the maniac at the beginning of the game, or are they needed for possible game balancing during the game, and therefore will be placed/not placed on a corpse depending on the game situation?
6. Can you use a night action on yourself? Can you choose not to use a night action if you don't want to?
7. Blocking, healing, and silencing one target for 2 nights in a row is usually prohibited. Are these special rules or unwritten restrictions?
8. Will the game end in the event of a "partial victory" for the town?
9. Empathy as a night action can create difficulties in implementation. Finding out that it will be used, finding out the target's night action, telling them, and then there will likely be a change in the team's night actions. And if the target of empathy suddenly changes their mind and wants to change their night action? Forbidding changing night actions after sending, telling the target that the night action cannot be changed due to empathy, telling the cult that the target has changed their night action - all options are bad.
10. Healing can be prioritized over kills. Currently, it seems that if the doctor and their target are killed, both are eliminated. Maybe that's how it should be, but the benefit of healing decreases.
11. What will the "town member" status look like during the check if the character's gender does not match the player's gender? Or does the check not take gender into account at all?
12. Surveillance after blocks, but before kills, seems strange. It turns out that it will not be possible to surveil the kills. Or does the ability look into the future?
13. The maniac finds all the pieces of the amulet and charges their ultimate ability. The cat loses, but remains in the game, although they cannot win? Something is wrong here.

Злобный Ящур

2/25/2016 10:50 AM UTC

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7. Blocking, healing, and silencing a single target for 2 nights in a row is generally prohibited. Are these special rules or unwritten restrictions?

As far as I remember, they are generally allowed.

10. Healing can be prioritized over killing. It seems that if you kill a doctor and their target, both of them leave. Maybe that's how it should be, but the benefit of healing decreases.

That's exactly how healing differs from defense.

Added 2 minutes later

12. Surveillance after blocking, but before killing, seems strange. It turns out that it won't be possible to surveil the killings. Or does the ability look into the future?

Usually, this means that the surveillant learns the result of the night phase even in case of their own death.

Ничто не возникает из ничего и ничто не пропадает бесследно.
Если где-то чего-то убудет, то в другом месте добавится.
(Закон сохранения).

KindShaman

2/25/2016 6:24 PM UTC

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13. Man finds all the pieces of the amulet and charges his ultimate. The Cat loses, but remains in the game, although he cannot win? Something is wrong here.

The Cat automatically loses.

Added 1 minute ago

Goal:
To survive until one of the sides wins, or to find 4 pieces of the amulet. If Quirrell finds all the pieces of the amulet, he loses. He loses if he is left alone with the Maniac.

Since he loses, the role is removed from the game.

Added 2 minutes ago

3. There are very few recruits for the two cults. 4 immediately + 1 with protection. The second candidate for removal is 1 of the cults.

There are few recruits, but they have strong enough abilities to control the situation. In general, I know that the balance of power is not the best, mainly because I won't be able to recruit players for a more balanced ratio. Unless I organize a mass recruitment with MF... which I doubt...

Added 3 minutes ago
The game will end when a clear winner is determined. If the town eliminates the Mafia and the Maniac, but cannot cope with the Cultists, and they gain control over the limit, it will be a partial victory. If they cope with everyone, it will be a complete victory.

Added 1 minute ago

4. Will the 4 pieces of the amulet be randomly distributed among all players except the Cat and Man at the beginning of the game, or are they needed for possible game balancing during the game, and therefore will be placed/not placed in the corpse depending on the game situation?

Randomly, although I like the idea of using them for balancing. I'll think about it...

Added 2 minutes ago

11. What will the Townsperson/Townswoman statuses look like during the check if the gender of the character does not match the gender of the player? Or does the check not take gender into account at all?

The result will always be in the masculine gender.

Added 50 seconds ago

6. Can you use Night Action on yourself? Can you not use Night Action if you don't want to?

You cannot use it on yourself unless it is specified in the conditions of using the Night Action.

Added 12 minutes ago

1. Is the game planned with reveals, or is it a dark game with modkills for reveals/lies?

There are very few recruits for the two cults. 4 immediately + 1 with protection. The second candidate for removal is 1 of the cults.

You cannot reveal the role in the thread. I can remove 1 Mafia role for balance and add a recruit-able Town role.

Uranium235

2/25/2016 10:19 PM UTC

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The game will end when a winner is definitively determined.

That's the essence of the question. Let's say we have 2 townspeople, 2 members of one cult, and one member of another cult left. Is the game over, or not? Or, the most interesting scenario, 3 people: town/cult1/cult2.
Added 5 minutes ago
[/U]

I liked the idea of introducing it for balance.

No, I wasn't suggesting that. We shouldn't introduce it for balance. It's better to give out the pieces at once and assign a check to someone from the neutral side, which would randomly determine the owner of a piece of the amulet and/or at least inform those who have a piece of the amulet that they have it. Not necessarily immediately, for example, on the second or third night.

Added 1 minute ago

I'll put a limit on the cultist blockers, no more than once per target.

And put a limit on the Mafia's block as well, what makes it better?

Added 3 minutes ago

You can't reveal your role in the thread.

What's the punishment? Immediate modkill, a warning, a team loss, what exactly? From my point of view, you can break the ban if the benefits from it outweigh the consequences. And will the punishment be different if you reveal not your own role, but someone else's? (hint: it shouldn't, otherwise, by the fact that there is no punishment, you can guess that someone was lying)

Added 7 minutes ago

I can remove 1 Mafia role for balance and add a recruitable peaceful role.

Will it be 9-4-1-1-1-1? This is already too much in favor of the Mafia. If there were no clues, then okay, more than a quarter of the Mafia. But there will be clues. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to make it less than 1/3 of the Mafia.

Added 11 minutes ago
I still don't understand the Cat. So, he collected the amulet and won. It turns out that the others lost - or will they play for their own victory, independent of the Cat? If the Cat is alive, but hasn't collected the amulet, and only the Mafia remains, does he also win? The meaning of playing as the Cat is to not die and not let the Mafia find the amulet, and that's it, that's a victory, right?

Added 4 minutes ago

Usually, this means that the observer learns the result of the Night Phase even in case of their death.

So, the observer, who is a member of the Mafia and was killed, manages to inform the team of the result, is that what you mean?

KindShaman

2/26/2016 5:53 AM UTC

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That's the whole point. Let's say we have 2 townspeople, 2 members of one cult, and one member of another cult left. Is the game over, or not? Or, even better, 3 people left: town/cult1/cult2.

The cultists have killing Night Actions; a town archer or a person with Double Talk might still be alive in the town. However, if there are no more killing Night Actions or Double Talks left for anyone, it's clear that the cults have lost, as they definitely won't be able to control the limit if there are no more recruitable members in the town.

Added 1 minute ago

And put a limit on the Mafia block as well; how is that better?

Sure, I'll put a limit on everyone except the town blocker; he already has his own limit due to his passive ability.

Added 2 minutes ago

I still don't understand the Cat. He collects the amulet and wins. So, the others lose – or will they play for their own victory, independent of the Cat? If the Cat is alive but hasn't collected the amulet, and only the Mafia is left, does he still win? The point of playing as the Cat is not to die and not let the Maniac find the amulet, and that's it – is that the victory condition?

I suspect you haven't encountered the concept of a personal victory condition yet. In this case, the Cat wins if he collects the amulet; even if he's killed afterward, he wins due to his personal victory condition. Or, if he survives until the end without being left alone with the Maniac and prevents him from collecting the amulet.

Added 1 minute ago

What's the punishment? Immediate modkill, a warning, the team loses – what exactly? From my point of view, breaking a rule is acceptable if the benefits outweigh the consequences. And will the punishment be different if you reveal not your own role, but someone else's? (hint: it shouldn't be, otherwise, by the fact that there's no punishment, you can guess that someone was lying).

Modkill. But if one faction violates the rules twice in a row, they may automatically lose.

Added 5 minutes ago

Does the Mafia, who is a Seer and gets killed, have time to report the result to his team?

He will report the last result of his check.

Ment

2/26/2016 7:29 AM UTC

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Modkill.

The game hasn't even started, and Urana has already been modkilled.

К А
Стикеры GBF в Telegram

Uranium235

2/26/2016 9:09 AM UTC

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I can definitely imagine that during the daytime voting, the townspeople won't be able to agree. And thus, even 2 players from different cults can hang 3 townspeople without any recruitment. In short, if only the town and a cult remain, you can give the victory to the town. Or you can not, because there is no guaranteed victory.

Added 4 minutes later
I'll write something about the interaction of the Neutral Day phase later.

Злобный Ящур

2/26/2016 11:53 AM UTC

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However, if there are no more neutral players or players with double votes left, it's clear that the cults have lost, as they definitely won't be able to control the limit if there are no more players to recruit in the town.

[/U]

I quite agree that the townspeople might not be united in a daytime vote. And thus, even 2 players from different cults can hang 3 townspeople without any recruitment.

There's also a "stalemate" option, where the town doesn't vote, and no one is hanged. x) As well as option 1: one non-recruitable townsperson against one cultist... We need to somehow "resolve" these options.

Ничто не возникает из ничего и ничто не пропадает бесследно.
Если где-то чего-то убудет, то в другом месте добавится.
(Закон сохранения).

KindShaman

2/28/2016 10:01 AM UTC

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9. Empathy as an ND (Non-Disclosure) can create difficulties in implementation. Finding out when it will be applied, determining the target's ND, explaining it, and then there will likely be a change in the team's ND. And what if the target of the empathy suddenly changes their mind and wants to change their ND? Forbidding them to change the ND after it's been sent, telling the target that the ND cannot be changed due to empathy, telling the cult that the target has changed their ND – all of these options are bad.

Simply, after a certain time limit, all submitted NDs will be considered final, after which I will announce the result, then accept changes to the NDs according to the result, and then the newspaper...

Uranium235

2/28/2016 12:50 PM UTC

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1. The traditional question about votes. If a player with a double vote loses one, will they have 1 left? What happens if a player who lost a vote doubles their vote – is it just a regular single vote?
2. Is the ultimate action only usable once per game? If the action fails due to a block, will the charge be preserved?
3. When using Saint Lenier's ultimate on a female character, will the result be unsuccessful? Will there be a block when used on a neutral character or cultists?
4. Does applying poison to Norton result in failure?
5. Is poison a murder delayed by one night? If so, will the poisoned player know they have been poisoned? If so, do they need to apply protection against poison on the night of poisoning or the following night for it to be effective, or can it be applied on either night?
6. Does "Hide in the Thicket" protect the player or the selected target?
7. Which character traits relate to magical abilities? A list is needed; it's difficult to intuitively determine whether empathy or magic resistance are considered magical abilities.
8. [This was a mention of stasis]
9. Recruitment grants new character traits, but does it also remove previous traits and special abilities?
10. What are the limitations on the journalist's questions? Can you ask similar questions (do you have a gift? do you not have a gift?) or questions unrelated to the game (are you 20 years old)?
11. A list of physical attacks is needed. For example, is a bomb a physical attack? Is an action with the type (-) an attack? Poison is apparently neither physical nor magical.
12. Checking Sharp's status is actually a rather weak ability, given the number of questions. What is its purpose?
13. If there is a murder without any clues, how does the additional clue manifest itself?
14. Does Moonlight remove only 1 block placed on the target, or all of them? Healing likely removes all murders.
15. If the target uses more than one character trait, will "Innate Sense" show the status for each one?
16. Again, if the target has multiple character traits, will the result be multiple nicknames? For tracking who they visited.
17. List of factions: town, mafia, coven, order, cat, maniac? Or are the last two not factions?
18. Will Juliana's character trait provide an answer on the night she is recruited? In general, Juliana seems a bit off. The druid coven gains very little benefit from her recruitment, as she loses her own character trait and gains something rather dubious.
19. Can "Whisper of the Forest" only be used on targets killed on any night, or only on the previous night?
20. Does checking for belonging to another faction mean asking a player from another cult – yes/no? Or do you choose a faction and ask, for example, a question like "is this a neutral?" – yes/no? Or do you name a player – and the answer is the faction to which they belong?
21. For successful recruitment, does the target have to be alive at the time the character trait is used, or can a dead player also be recruited if they were alive during the day?
22. The mafia has one murder per night. Is there a limit on character traits, or how many can they use?
23. Changing status to the opposite – there are supposedly 3 initial statuses: townsperson, nobleman, and guard. What is the opposite of a guard? Perhaps it would be better if the player could choose which status to change to?
24. If Henri Saint Lenier's status is changed to "has a gift," can he be recruited? Can a townsperson who had a gift but whose status was changed to "does not have a gift" be recruited?
25. After killing two targets with a gift, one gains natural protection. Does this ability require a specific player to kill 2 targets with a gift? Does the mafia need to kill 2 targets with a gift? Or does it not matter who kills 2 targets with a gift during the game? Will it work if you kill someone whose status was changed to "has a gift"?
26. "Place a trap" – what are faction abilities – is it what is acquired after initiation, or are all character traits considered faction abilities? Is it a one-night deprivation, or does the trap last one night, or both?
27. Does removing natural protection result in a successful outcome if the character trait is used successfully, or if the protection is removed successfully? In other words, can you use an amulet to find out if natural protection existed before it was removed?
28. Does "Binding of the Cat's Life" work like this: if the target of the character trait is alive, the cat will survive the night no matter how many times it is killed or poisoned. But if the target is killed, but the cat is not targeted, will the cat still be alive?
29. Can pieces of the amulet only be found in corpses? Or also in living (executed, immobilized) targets?
30. If the cat and the maniac search for the amulet in the same place and find it, who does it go to?
31. The maniac wins 1 on 1 against any player, even if this happens during the day, and that player may hang the maniac due to doubled/lost votes.
32. If the cat searches for the amulet on a living or dead maniac, does it find all the pieces that belong to them?
33. Does the game start with day or night?

KindShaman

2/28/2016 5:07 PM UTC

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Those that are obtained after initiation into the cult.

Added 5 minutes later

Crossbow shots, explosions, and attacks with piercing-cutting objects are physical attacks.

Poisoning is removed by healing.

Added 14 minutes later

An additional clue from the same mercenary's murder will be available, but the main one will not.

Added 2 minutes later

As soon as she is recruited, the ND is gone.
I wouldn't say... an additional hint as to who the mafia is is very useful indeed. The mafia hinders the cult no less than the city does.

Added 1 minute later

Checking for membership in another cult.

Added 2 minutes later

Recruitment happens via Dimension Door, so as soon as night falls, they switch to their faction. They receive their NDs that same night. It's entirely possible they are killed immediately after recruitment, but they will already be part of the faction. Recruitment protection ND cancels recruitment during the day following the night it was applied.

Added 1 minute later

For convenience, let's make it the previous one.

Added 1 minute later

I introduced this ND one of the last ones and haven't tested it... you're right, I'll fix it now.

Added 2 minutes later

Changing status is like deceiving the checker; it doesn't affect recruitment.

Added 1 minute later

The info will be provided.

Added 2 minutes later

They will perish. Specifically for this reason, he has two opportunities to guaranteed survive the night with someone. After that, he risks his health.

Added 1 minute later

I already answered this. If visiting a living maniac, he steals 1 part of the amulet. The maniac knows he's been robbed. If from a corpse, he gets everything.

Added 1 minute later

If the target is alive, the Cat gets it; if dead, the maniac.

Added 43 seconds later

Yes.

Added 1 minute later

It only deprives them of those NDs for which this is explicitly written.

Added 4 minutes later

Restrictions: no more than one question per side, no more than two per role (this concept includes ND type, statuses, role description). Other questions are forbidden. Although this is not yet the final version of restrictions.

Added 7 minutes later

Display priority will go to the killing ND in the case of a maniac and to the binding ND in the case of a cat.

Added 26 minutes later

Once per game unless otherwise specified. If a block disrupted the action, the charge is not preserved.

Added 4 minutes later

Oneself.

Added 1 minute later

Yes.

Added 3 minutes later

Partly for the plot. If he specifically needs to know if someone lied to him about the second status, it will be useful.

Added 2 minutes later

Yes, the result will be failure. Nothing will happen to the neutral (I'll add that now). For cultists, a block (will also add that).

Added 11 minutes later

A trap is set on the target and acts this night; anyone who came to the target with an ND will be unable to use abilities obtained from their faction on the next night. I've corrected the description for clarity.

Added 3 minutes later

1 voice remains in both cases.

Added 3 minutes later

I'll set a standard limit of 3 NDs per team, one being killing. Per role NDs. I will count poisoning as killing.

Added 1 minute later

Any of them. They won't know, but a subtle hint in the newspaper is possible, through which one could guess.

Added 2 hours 15 minutes later

With night.

Added 5 minutes later

I think I won't count the cat as a faction that needs to be checked since there is no useful info in that.

Uranium235

2/29/2016 6:17 AM UTC

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Let it only apply to the previous turn.

- It's better to use it on the corpse of any Night creature. The effect is already weak, and it gets even weaker. Why is it weak? Because the ability isn't given to everyone, only to the Cult. And there's no way to reveal it to others, even if you figure it out. On the other hand, if the first one is figured out, there's no point in having an additional one. The only case where it might actually be useful is for performing assassinations without leaving any clues. In general, it's better to revert it to applying to any Night creature's corpse. I still think Julian is underpowered, and the Investigator is useless if its result can't be revealed (there are no autopsies or notes). Give her a good passive ability, like immunity to execution at least until recruitment, or immunity to all negative effects (the ones with the "-" symbol). Also, the cat isn't entirely immortal. 2 turns of Night are enough; if you block it, neither the connection nor the protection works. Was this intended, or does the cat need to be unblockable? As long as the number of interrogations for the first player isn't limited, and the Investigator can only do one per turn, it's simpler and more useful to do another interrogation than to check the status, which can also be changed. Yes, can you interrogate the same person multiple times? Example: 2 questions about the role and 1 about the faction: 1) Are you neutral? 2) Are you human? (If the Poisoner is also suddenly not human, change this question to: Are you a cat?) 3) Are you playing for a city? In this case, if you lie on one of the first two questions, it will be noticeable because the questions have the same meaning. This way, we can accurately determine their affiliation with a city. I'm not sure if this type of interrogation was planned. There are more questions with the same meaning than it seems; here's another example: 1) Are you female? 2) Do you have any special traits? 3) Are you playing for a city? Again, lying in the first two questions will be obvious, and we'll find out the truth in the third, no matter how you answer. In reality, this option isn't that dangerous because the Cult gets a clear indication of whether the target is recruitable or not. Asking this combination of questions is a bad plan if you're playing to win. From the previous list, questions 14 and 25 remain (not completely; I already understand that changing the status to "has a gift" doesn't do anything). And another question: how are actions directed at oneself, such as "hide in the thicket" and "magnetism," displayed from the perspective of monitoring a player and looking into the past? In other words, will the player be considered their own visitor? Dark Deal recruitment. What if you target a player, and they are "suddenly" executed? Can you change the target after the execution, or is it a lost opportunity?

Небо

2/29/2016 1:57 PM UTC

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Arandor

You guys are such hardcore gamers. You could be having fun instead.

.

Небо – мольбы не ждёт
Небо – угроз не слышит
Небо – ведёт особый счёт
Небо – тебя найдёт

По вопросам модерации: nebov24@gmail.com

KindShaman

3/3/2016 7:21 PM UTC

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Maybe give her a good passive ability, like immunity to execution at least until she's recruited, or immunity to all negative effects (the ones with the - sign).

I think I'll do it this way. Let her receive a random result from one of the players' Night Actions at the end of each night, either permanently or until she's recruited. I'm not even sure...

Added 2 minutes ago

Night Action recruitment. What if it's targeted at a player, and they are "suddenly" executed? Can the target be changed after the execution, or is it a lost opportunity?

I think that for fairness, we'll have to introduce a limit on the number of Night Actions so that players don't change the target too often depending on the game situation.

Added 2 minutes ago

25. After killing two targets with the Gift, she receives natural protection. Does this ability require a specific player to kill 2 targets with the Gift? Does it require the Mafia to kill 2 targets with the Gift? Or does it not matter who kills 2 targets with the Gift during the game? Will it work if you kill someone whose status has been changed to "has the Gift"?

Only if the target killed actually has the Gift, and it's killed by the player who has the passive ability.

Added 30 seconds ago

14. Moonlight removes only 1 block placed on the target, or all of them?

All of them.

KindShaman

3/5/2016 7:34 AM UTC

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I'd rather do it this way. Let it receive a random result of one of the players' skill checks at the end of each night, either permanently or until a certain guest is recruited... I don't even know...

Although, it would be better if it learned the nicknames of its guests.