Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition. Auto-translated

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=41380
I stumbled upon this by chance. Nargott, it seems you have a potential audience on heroescommunity!

The seasonal Wargame Tactics League (duels) is starting. No registration required; you play tactical battles, submit reports, and receive bonuses (depending on the results), which can then be used against opponents (strategy).

Skill Design:
The main criterion is that everything must be appealing, useful, versatile, and accessible; there should be no silly, filler, or strictly situational perks, nor connections that confuse the acquisition of perks through other skills. Attractive magic transformations have already been prepared for Orcs instead of pathetic dampening effects, but let's take it one step at a time.

Offense: Hero's units deal 10/20/30% more damage in melee.
Tactics: The area for deploying the hero's troops increases by 1 row if the opponent does not have Tactics.
Speed Sorcery: The hero gains the "Area Haste" spell and the ability to cast it—at least at an advanced skill level—for 50% of a turn (+120% initiative in a 4x4 area for Spellpower/4 rounds for 16 mana). Barbarian/chieftain/shaman instead grant their troops a +1 bonus to initiative.
Battle Frenzy: The base damage of all the hero's troops increases by 1.
Archery: Hero's units deal 30% more damage when shooting.
Heroic Attack: The hero's attack deals 200% damage.
Stunning Attack: The hero's attack stuns the target (it loses up to 50% of its turn).
Witchy Attack: The hero's attack casts "Debility" on the target depending on the same Dark Magic skill (-8/10/12/14 to offense for Spellpower/2 rounds).

Tactics – Speed Sorcery
Tactics – Battle Frenzy
Archery
Heroic Attack – Stunning Attack
Heroic Attack – Witchy Attack

Defense: Hero's units take 10/20/30% less damage in melee.
Fortitude: The health of all the hero's creatures increases by 2.
Stone Hardness: The hero gains the "Area Stone Skin" spell and the ability to cast it—at least at an advanced skill level—for 50% of a turn (+12 defense in a 4x4 area for Spellpower/4 rounds for 8 mana). Barbarian/chieftain/shaman instead grant their troops a +10% health bonus.
Reflection: Hero's units take 20% less damage from Destruction magic spells.
Fireproof Armor: The hero gains +2 defense. Hero's units take 50% less damage from the Fire element and are immune to the "Fire Master" ability.
Evasion: Hero's units take 30% less damage from ranged attacks.
Deep Defense: When executing or maintaining the "Defense" order, hero's units receive an additional +25% defense (total +75%).
Readiness: When executing the "Defense" order, hero's units gain the right to a preemptive counterattack, ignoring even non-retaliating attacks.

Fortitude – Stone Hardness
Reflection – Fireproof Armor
Evasion – Deep Defense
Evasion – Readiness

Luck: The hero gains +1/2/3 to luck and offense.
Magic Resistance: Hero's units have a 15% chance to deflect enemy magical effects.
Ethereal Luck: Hero's units attempt to deflect enemy magical effects twice as often.
Soldier's Luck: Hero's units attempt to trigger random abilities twice as often.
Luck Stealer: The hero gains +1 luck. Enemy units receive -1 luck.
Critical Luck: Lucky attacks from the hero's units deal an additional +50% damage (total +100%).
Luck Energy: The hero gains +1 luck. There is a 50% chance that the hero's spells consume 0-50% less mana (random discount).
Sorcerous Luck: Hero's spells deal an additional +50% damage with a 10% probability for each unit of luck.

Magic Resistance – Ethereal Luck
Soldier's Luck – Luck Stealer – Critical Luck
Luck Energy – Sorcerous Luck

Leadership: Hero's units gain +1/2/3 morale. Reaper/cultist/Necromancer additionally give the enemy hero's units a -1/2/3 morale penalty (does not work against neutrals).
Troop Gathering: The size of the hero's units increases by 5% at the start of each day (rounded down).
Guild Master: The hero brings in 100 * (level + 2) gold at the start of each day. Enemy hero's troops receive a -2 morale penalty (does not work against neutrals).
Charisma: When attacking neutrals, before each battle, the hero has the opportunity to buy out 20% of creatures (rounded down) for 300% of the price.
Empathy: When positive/negative morale is triggered in an allied unit, the hero restores/loses 10% of a turn. Reaper/cultist/Necromancer additionally gain +1 spellpower for each level of Leadership.
Fight to the Last: Upon the death of any hero's unit, 1 creature with 1 health always survives if there were several creatures in the unit before its death.
Inspiration: The hero gains the "Inspiration" ability (restore 30% of an allied unit's turn).
Retribution: Hero's units deal 5% more damage for each positive point of morale. Reaper/cultist/Necromancer additionally gain +1 offense for each level of Leadership.

Troop Gathering – Guild Master
Charisma – Empathy
Charisma – Fight to the Last
Inspiration – Retribution

Logistics: The hero's land movement distance increases by 10/20/30% (base 40 units).
Path of War: After each battle, the hero restores 4 turn points.
Looting: The hero does not spend turn points to collect resources, enter buildings, or board a ship. Enemy hero's troops receive a -1 speed penalty (does not work against neutrals).
Reconnaissance: The hero's vision radius increases by 50% (base 20 units). The hero can see the exact number of creatures in other armies if they do not have Cloaking.
Cloaking: The hero's vision radius increases by an additional 100% (base 20 units). The composition of the hero's army, except for the strongest unit, is hidden from the opponent if they do not have Reconnaissance. Enemy hero's troops receive a -1 initiative penalty (does not work against neutrals).
Unraveling Secrets: The hero gains the ability to learn spells used by any units or the enemy hero in battle, and also sees the enemy hero's inventory and spellbook during combat. Barbarian, chieftain, and shaman instead grant their troops a +1 bonus to initiative.
Pathfinding: The penalty for the hero crossing rough terrain is reduced by 50%.
Speed Aura: Hero's units gain +1 speed.

Path of War – Looting
Reconnaissance – Cloaking
Reconnaissance – Unraveling Secrets
Pathfinding – Speed Aura

Engineering: The hero's war machines gain +5/10/15 defense and offense, and +100/200/300% durability. Tent healing is increased from 10 to 20/50/100. The supply train increases the offense of shooters in the hero's army by 1/2/3. The catapult hits a designated target with a probability of 30/40/40%.
Ballistics: An allied ballista (if present) fires 2 times per turn, is controlled by the player, and is restored after battle.
Rate of Fire: An allied ballista (if present) fires 3 times per turn.
Military Medicine: An allied tent (if present) gains the ability to resurrect creatures, is controlled by the player, and is restored after battle.
Plague Tent: An allied tent (if present) gains the ability to shoot at living creatures.
War Craft: The hero's war machines gain +3 initiative.
Artillery: Before each battle, 10% of enemy troops die (rounded down). During a siege, an allied catapult fires 2 times per turn and is controlled by the player. The supply train is restored after battle.
Sulphur Rain: Before each battle, a total of 20% of enemy troops die (rounded down). During a siege, an allied catapult fires 3 times per turn.
Fire Arrows: An allied ballista (if present) ignores 50% of the target's defense when shooting, deals an additional +50 fire damage, and is restored after battle.

Ballistics – Rate of Fire
Military Medicine – Plague Tent
Military Medicine – War Craft
Artillery – Sulphur Rain – Fire Arrows

The Reaper/Cultist/Necromancer additionally gives enemy hero units a -1/-2/-3 morale penalty (does not affect neutrals).

Is the restriction that it doesn't affect neutrals a technical issue, or a balance issue?

Recruitment: The number of units in the hero's army increases by 5% at the beginning of each day (rounded down).

It's a bit strange. So, it's clear that units with a size of less than 20 won't accumulate at all with this scheme, but in general... Especially combined with other, not the weakest, leadership skills (for Retribution, you don't need to pump attack anymore, and morale has also been moved to leadership). I don't know, it's crazy. You pump recruitment, you pump charisma, you pump morale – and you become invincible.
I would make recruitment either 10% per week (or something like that), or, since you're playing with increments, make the increment increase (don't require the hero to be in the city, tie it to the city closest to the hero at the time the function is first called). Maybe change the order so that recruitment is a second-level skill, not a first-level skill (therefore, it wouldn't be combined with morale).

Enemy hero units receive a -1 initiative penalty (does not affect neutrals).

How do you manage to implement such things? I want to too...

Leadership skills are too overpowered, almost all of them. I wouldn't recommend dealing with complex percentages at all. Tested. (and there, +5% was awarded per week, but here it's per day).

Arcane Luck: The hero's spells deal an additional +50% damage with a 10% chance for each point of luck.

Cool. It was already difficult for a Warlock to win in the late game against someone with their focus on destruction, and now they've cut his damage by another 50%...

Fireproof Armor: The hero receives +2 to defense. The hero's units receive 50% less damage from the Fire element and are immune to the "Fire Master" ability.

There are already abilities that provide protection from fire. For example, in the light branch. At the same time, other elements are somehow ignored.

Cool. It was already difficult for a Warlock to win in the late game with their focus on destruction, and now they've also reduced their damage by 50%...

Nargott separately balances chaos and everything related to it... I think it's normal to make chaos a more balanced school in the late game (in general, the formula needs to be changed, it's terrible).
Although I'm not sure if the author is already working on this, but it's probably planned.

And there are already skills to protect against fire. For example, in the light branch. At the same time, other elements are somehow ignored.

As I understand it, that's what it is, and it won't be in the light branch anymore. I think something like that was mentioned...

How do you manage to implement such things? I want to do it too...

As far as I understand, it's GiveHeroBattleBonus.

As far as I understand, it's GiveHeroBattleBonus.

Yeah, it exists in NHF.

The restriction that doesn't apply to neutrals – is it a technical issue? Or a balance issue?

It's a technical issue, but it's also interesting; the perk is still relevant for clearing maps (it has an alternative effect).

It's kind of weird. I mean, it's clear that units with a size of less than 20 won't accumulate using this scheme, but still... Especially combined with other, not the weakest, skills in leadership (attack is no longer needed for retribution, and defense is also moved to leadership). I don't know, it's crazy. You pump up troop recruitment, charisma, and defense, and you become invincible.

That's great. According to my calculations, the perk is balanced, considering the increased game pace (and the 2-3 times reduced troop sizes as a result). In reality, only 1-3 tier units will come from this perk, and since the player's army grows over time, previous increases become relatively cheaper compared to the current time. And if the player drags the game on for several months, then it's a different balance; let them take recruitment and not take chaos; it's impossible and unnecessary to balance everything for all timeframes. Can the perk be countered by entering the early or mid-game phase? Yes. So everything is fine.
In the original, the game lasts about 4 weeks (if you don't drag it out); here, it is planned to be 2-3. The base movement range is increased by 1.6 times, and experience gain will also be accelerated (approximately +1 level per day), and city thresholds are reduced by 1.5 times (from 3 to 2 levels). This significantly affects the balance of time and perks that are spread out over time.

Charisma, defense, empathy, retribution – all are very good perks, but the base of leadership itself is weak, and this is how it is balanced.

I would make troop recruitment either 10% per week.

I would throw such a perk in the trash. You'll get a couple of peasants 1-2 times per game, and that's it. The trick is that if perks are not desirable, then what's the point of them?

How do you manage to implement such things? I want to too...

By setting the properties of the enemy hero (initiative and speed penalties).

Added 4 minutes ago

Cool. It was already difficult for the Warlock to win in the late game with his focus on destruction, and now they've cut him by another 50%...

Don't rush; occultism (racial skill) has been strengthened to +1/2/3/4 to magic and knowledge, and also ignores 20/40/60/80% resistance (instead of 20/40/50/75%). In addition, the perks in chaos have been strengthened, but more on that later.
Also, the sorceress is now taken at level 2 luck, does not require a dark ritual (saving 2-4 levels), and grows immediately with +4 luck instead of +3 (because of the bonus from Energy of Luck).
In addition, the sorcery branch will also be strengthened (+1/2/3 to magic), but I haven't gotten around to writing it yet.
Finally, the base of luck (even though it has been reduced to +50%) is very strong: it gives an additional +1/2/3 to attack (in the original, it's +2/4/6), and a good bonus to combat.

I suggest that you don't compare it to the old skills yet, but only among themselves – those that have already been presented. Are there any unattractive skills or branches in them that are not interesting to upgrade?

There are already skills to protect against fire. For example, in the light branch. At the same time, other elements are somehow ignored.

This is the same skill from the light branch, only now it is much more useful and not so narrowly specialized.

Leadership skills are too overpowered, almost all of them.

That's how the perks should look. Compare it to any other skill. For example, attack (+10/20/30% instead of 5/10/15), battle frenzy (almost doubles the damage of low-level units), mass haste (initiative increases by more than 2 times, and it's area-of-effect).

Also, keep in mind that in WGE, stats play twice as much, since they are balanced in this way: attack and defense give a 10% bonus for each unit of difference, and magic is strengthened and depends more on magic and mana. So, the same +2 from the "Fireproof Armor" perk is a big bonus, like +4 in the original, plus the defense against fire itself.

Artillery: Before each battle, 10% of enemy troops are lost (rounded down). During a siege, the allied catapult fires 2 times per turn and is controlled by the player. The supply wagon is replenished after the battle.
Sulfur Rain: Before each battle, a total of 20% of enemy troops are lost (rounded down). During a siege, the allied catapult fires 3 times per turn.

- Isn't that a bit much...?

Artillery: Before each battle, 10% of enemy troops are lost (rounded down). During a siege, the allied catapult fires 2 times per turn and is controlled by the player. The supply wagon is restored after the battle.
Sulfur Rain: Before each battle, a total of 20% of enemy troops are lost (rounded down). During a siege, the allied catapult fires 3 times per turn.

- Isn't that a bit too much...

I agree, it looks very strong (but with 5/10%, it's not attractive at all). However, it's worth considering that the base itself (engineering) is weak and doesn't combine well with these effects. In essence, it gets 20% destruction and symbolic units (without any perks) at the cost of 4 perks. Also, rounding is applied, which means that tier 6-7 units are not particularly affected by artillery fire (and the player can counter this by splitting top-tier units into stacks of 4 or 9 creatures). When capturing banks (tombs, etc.), the bonus will also not work, which reduces the value of the perk in breaching defenses.
So, I would rate the 10/20% artillery fire at around 6/14% due to rounding – these numbers are still within balance. Do you think that an upgraded rapid-fire ballista will deal less damage per battle? :) I didn't mention it, but the ballista will be powerful enough that its branch will be strong even without firearms.

Interestingly, why do they mention the "troop gathering + leadership" combination as being effective (although it also requires leveling up to level 3 and charisma), but don't say anything about Guildmaster? At levels 8/18, this provides +1000/2000 gold per day and a -2 penalty to the enemy hero's morale upon encounter (bribing). I think this is definitely not worse. With that kind of money, it's worth adding Charisma to Troop Gathering + Guildmaster, allowing you to buy off 20% of each neutral army. The Reaper/Cultist/Necromancer, with skilled leadership and Guildmaster, will reduce the enemy hero's morale by as much as 3+2 = 5 points.

In reality, many of the hero perks look really cool, just like many of the creature perks in this mod (which, moreover, have shown good balance in duels). And this personally inspires me not to switch to weaker perks. I'm strongly annoyed by minor and symbolic bonuses; my soul craves grandeur.

maybe instead of 10-20%, it should be a number that depends on the hero's level and attack value?

And if a player prolongs the game for several months, then it's a different balance altogether. Let them choose a build and not take Chaos. You can't and shouldn't balance everything for all possible game lengths.

Well, maps come in different sizes. Sometimes, to quickly reach an opponent, you need to traverse many zones. Of course, I'm not talking about the very late game, but even in the moderately late game (or even the mid-game, for that matter), this combination of abilities seems incredibly overpowered. In my humble opinion, the ability's weight should have been made more optimal for different stages of the game, rather than forcing it to be most effective in the early game. However, I understand that you have a different concept for the mod.

I would discard such a perk. Once or twice during the game, you get a couple of peasants, and that's it. The point is, if perks aren't desirable, then what's the point of having them?

Em, is your game length two weeks? Let's do a calculation for two months (a normal average length).
A week is a plus one increase of levels 1-3, and for them, another +10% per week. I won't count levels 4 and higher for simplicity (I'll compensate by considering the increases of levels 1-3 to be at their maximum right away).
So, the second week is two increases + 10% of the first = 210%.
The third week is 2.1 * 1.1 + 1 = 3.31.
The fourth week is 4.64.
The fifth week is 6.1.
The sixth week is 7.71.
The seventh week is 10.58.
The eighth, final week is 12.64.
So, in the end, the increase has grown... by a factor of 1.5 for levels 1-3. Yes, there are many assumptions in the calculation, but the pros and cons more or less compensate for each other. Now let's look at your 5% per day:
In a week, 5% will give 40%. Well, let's say 30 due to rounding down. Let's calculate.
The second week is 1.3 + 1 = 2.3.
The third week is 4.
The fourth week is 6.2.
The fifth week is 9.06.
The sixth week is 12.77.
The seventh week is 17.6.
The eighth week is almost 24! Three times as much, Karl! Roughly speaking, if you delay for some reason for a week, the situation goes from unpleasant to hopeless. And if the opponent is playing as Necropolis... Hmm.

Maybe instead of 10-20%, it should be a number that depends on the hero's level and attack value?

It's not logical because the actual number of losses already increases over time (stronger armies are encountered). A double increase is not needed, especially since an increase with level means a weak start and a mega-imba in the finale (otherwise, weakening), which is not what we want.

Ugh, but maps vary in size. Sometimes, to quickly reach an opponent, you need to break through many zones. Of course, I'm not talking about the very late game, but in the moderately late game (or even the mid-game, in general), this combination of abilities looks like a huge imbalance. In my humble opinion, it would be worth making the ability's weight more optimal for different stages, rather than forcing it to be only for the early game. However, I understand that you have a different concept for the mod.

In the late game, the balance inevitably changes. This is a given. With a base movement range of 40 (instead of 25), the size of the maps is not a problem.

Um, is your game duration 2 weeks? Let's do a calculation for two months (a normal average duration).

2 months is not relevant in competitive Multiplayer, even in the original game. Okay, let's consider these durations as for single-player (does this mean that in the original, the same map would take 3 months to complete?!). I assume that the inevitable losses on neutral creatures were not taken into account? So, the game is completed very slowly in a light mode "without losses"? Okay, in this case, in the late game, the lower tiers don't play at all compared to the top tiers, which have a 3-4 times higher growth rate. Thus, we don't get such a significant bonus (weak troops only catch up with the strong ones).

In addition, your calculations assume that this perk is taken from the very beginning, and not later. This means, among other things, that breaking through in the first week is a disadvantage (when there is no benefit from it, just like there is not much benefit from the leadership base). This will inevitably affect the late game in the same way as a snowball effect.

You also did not take into account the replenishment of troops from other cities (is a 2-month map played only with 1 city? I played in Heroes 3 (with similarly accelerated logistics) 2-3 week games with 8 cities, 2-3 of which were native). So, the relative bonus from Gathering for the lower tiers will be far from 300% even in 2 months, but much less.

That is, your calculations are made for: a huge map, for some reason with a small number of cities, and also for a slow pace of play. This is a combination of too many conditions at the same time. And yes, I understand that usually maps for single-player in Heroes 5 are designed this way. But I can't play them myself, and therefore I can't balance the mod for a game mode that is alien to me.

I don't understand why you would continue the game after fully building up the city (including even unnecessary buildings for the chosen strategy) and achieving key upgrades (without excesses), and also why you would keep dozens of dragons in the army and complain about weak Chaos. If you play for such a long time, then for you, "Deadly Cold" is a situational anti-ballista, anti-fen, and nothing more. While in reality, it is one of the most delicious and imbalanced perks, you just need to slightly increase the pace of the game. When there are only 2-3 dragons in the army, it's -30-50% of the top stack, "accidentally" hit by the ring with just one perk.

You are not suggesting strengthening "Deadly Cold" just because it is not intended for games of 2+ months? Or doing something about the education that already gives +15 stats at level 30 (+30, if translated to the original)?

The Necromancer gets more bonuses from this perk (due to the combination with necromancy). But this is logical, because he doesn't get anything at all in breaking through for the leadership base, unless he mixes troops. In addition, anticipating, necromancy will give 5/10/15/20%, and not 20/30/40/50%, which will not have a significant impact on the total number of raised creatures (due to the limitations on the economy), but it will affect the composition, it will be much more difficult to recruit only troops of lower tiers and, accordingly, increase the Gathering of troops.

It's illogical because the actual number of losses already increases over time (stronger armies appear). A double increase isn't needed here, especially since an increase with level means a weak start and a mega-imba in the finale (otherwise, weakening), which is exactly what I wouldn't want.

The balance inevitably changes in the late game. This is a given. With a base movement range of 40 (instead of 25), map size isn't a problem.

2 months isn't relevant in competitive Multiplayer, even in the original game. Okay, let's consider these timeframes for single-player (does this mean that in the original, the same map would take 3 months to complete?!). I assume that inevitable losses on neutral creatures weren't taken into account at all? So, the game is completed very slowly in a light mode "without losses"? Okay, in that case, in the late game, lower-tier units don't play a role compared to top-tier units, which have a 3-4 times higher growth rate. Thus, we don't get such a significant bonus (weak units only catch up to strong ones).

Also, your calculations assume that this perk is taken from the very beginning, and not later. This means, among other things, that early-game breakthroughs suffer (when there's no benefit from it, just like there's not much benefit from the Leadership base). This will inevitably affect the late game, like a snowball effect.

You also didn't take into account troop replenishment from other cities (is a 2-month map played with only 1 city? I played in Heroes 3 (with similarly boosted logistics) in 2-3 weeks, already with 8 cities, 2-3 of which were native). So, the relative bonus from Gathering for lower-tier units will be far from 300% even after 2 months, but much less.

That is, your calculations are made for: a huge map, for some reason with a small number of cities, and also for a slow pace of gameplay. This is a combination of too many conditions at once. And yes, I understand that maps for single-player in Heroes 5 are usually designed this way. But I can't play them myself, and therefore I also can't balance the mod for a game mode that is foreign to me. I don't understand why you would continue the game after fully building a city (including even unnecessary buildings for the chosen faction) and achieving key upgrades (without excesses), and also why you would keep dozens of dragons in your army and complain about weak Chaos.

The Necromancer gets more bonuses from this perk (due to the combination with Necromancy). But that's logical, because he doesn't get anything from the Leadership base in terms of breakthrough, unless he mixes units. Also, looking ahead, Necromancy will give 5/10/15/20%, and not 20/30/40/50%, which will not have a significant impact on the total number of raised creatures (due to limitations on magic power), but it will affect the composition; it will be much more difficult to recruit only lower-tier units and, accordingly, boost Troop Gathering.

Perhaps for the first time in the entire history of discussions, I will agree with everything (or almost: D). I must say that I also don't understand this strange desire to build a city to the end just for the sake of building it, and I also don't understand the urge to set the goal of leveling up a hero to a super skill or level 40... forgetting that the main goal is to win the war, and not to have an uber-hero with an uber-army, but still, you are calculating for a very fast game - two months is just right