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Posts from "Necropolis" - changes to creatures of levels 6-7.

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
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Offline Nargott
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#226
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This by no means indicates that the mod affected the game's balance. It simply allowed Necromancers to feel confident in places where they previously couldn't stand against other factions.
Come on, Necropolis has always been one of the most overpowered factions; in the TE mod, for example, they keep getting nerfed, but they still dominate :D
In this mod, they simply fixed the weaknesses of the Necropolis, without weakening its strengths. But the goal wasn't to balance the game, but to strengthen tiers 6-7 within reasonable limits.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Offline SRD
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#227
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Excellent :smile54: (but I understand the scream is still ten times louder than the original – oh well).
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#228
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Well done, I will definitely play this mod. Strengthening the Necropolis is an important task. Everyone gets a beer on me!
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
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Offline Heroist
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#229
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SRD
Excellent :smile54: (but I understand that the scream remained tenfold compared to the original - well, that's fine)

Thank you) Not tenfold, I think, but five. The initial coefficient was 2.
Nargott
Come on, Necropolis has always been one of the most overpowered races; in the TE mod, for example, they keep getting cut down, but they still dominate :D
In this mod, they simply fixed the weaknesses of Necropolis, without weakening its strengths. But the goal was not balance, but to strengthen tiers 6-7 within reasonable limits.

Yes, in general, I agree ;) I remember how I loved playing in the good old days - I ran around the map with hundreds of thousands of skeletal archers and felt simply invincible ;) Vlad was a favorite hero, thanks to the ability - "Resurrector". And, of course, Markel.
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Well done, I will definitely play this mod. Strengthening Necropolis is an important mission. I'll buy everyone a beer on my account.

Thank you ;)

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Offline SRD
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#230
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There was no coefficient applied, so the suggestion is only to increase it by a factor of 5, not 10.
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Offline Nargott
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#231
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SRD
There was no coefficient at all, hence the suggestion to increase it by 5 times, not 10.
This is either an error in the fan manual, or it was like that in 3.0.
In 3.1, there was definitely a coefficient of 2, and this is reflected in the 3.1 fan manual.
So, what you are suggesting is equivalent to increasing the wail by 2.5 times compared to the original, which, considering the increased range and direct damage from the attack, leaves this ability in the same state as it was before.

If you're afraid of Banshees, don't go into the forest. The version presented in this mod is mild and very much a compromise; I was actually suggesting that the wail should be twice as powerful as the direct attack, which would correspond to a coefficient of x20 (not x10). And here, against a unit with 12 defense (which is an average defense for units), a Banshee deals almost the same damage with a direct attack as it does with a wail. And you can always use the example of Archangels with 30 defense and bring up examples with some peasants with around 0 defense, against whom it is not profitable to use the wail.
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Offline Heroist
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#232
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That's correct; the manual 3.0 doesn't mention this. However, if you look in the editor and copy the data with descriptions from there, all the clarifications will be clearly visible in a text editor.
DeathWailRange-----> 3 ------> Maximum range of the scream
DeathWailDamageCoef -----> 10 ------> Damage = DeathWailDamageCoef * X / (DeathWailDamageArgument ^ 2)
DeathWailDamageArgument--> 2
DeathWailDamageConst----> 10 -------> X = (DeathWailDamageConst - Morale) * [number of creatures in the stack]

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Offline Nargott
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#233
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Heroist
That's correct, the manual 3.0 doesn't mention this. But if you look in the editor and copy the data with the descriptions, you'll find all the clarifications clearly laid out in a text file.
As practice shows, you can't fully trust anyone's descriptions. The fact that the coefficient was x2 is confirmed both in the game's internal resources and directly in the game itself (sometimes, even the information in the game's resources may not correspond to reality due to game bugs).
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Offline RedHeavenHero
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#234
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Nargott
(sometimes, even information in the game's resources may not be accurate due to game bugs).
Is such a thing possible?
Карты для Героев Меча и Магии 5
Одиночные: Завеса срывается, Посол, Последний рывок, Эхо Пустоты
Кампания: Империя Единорога

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Offline Nargott
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#235
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RedHeavenHero
Is something like that even possible?
It is possible. Try changing the resources so that, for example, shamans receive bonuses of +3 to stats and morale instead of +1 when performing a sacrifice. The game will completely ignore this, because +1 is hardcoded into the executable, not the resources. Or, the duration of berserk, no matter how you change the spell in the resources, it will still remain 1/1/1/2 turns, because that's what's specified in the executable. Or, the destructive beam in a magic attack, no matter how you change the spell in the resources, it will still reduce 3 defense (regardless of the base constant) + the modifier for the skill.

In other words, the data in the resources can easily be ignored by the executable, i.e., the game itself.
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Offline SRD
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#236
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I apologize, I didn't know (about the coefficient). Okay, then everything is perfect:smile02:
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#237
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I tried your mod. To put it mildly... When in a duel with a Dread Knight, a 12-unit banshee spell wiped out 4 lava dragons... On the one hand, it's certainly amusing, but it doesn't really work for a serious game; Necropolis units are already powerful, and this just adds to it...
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
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Offline Heroist
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#238
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The main advantage of this ability is that it doesn't depend on the stats of the target at all. While Banshees can deal significantly more damage to peasants, here the situation is completely different. In other words, the ability is useful against powerful units, and of course, against weaker ones too, but to a much lesser extent. And the fact that the AI doesn't react to it or isn't afraid of it is just a quirk of how the developers programmed the game. Added after 2 minutes: Wouldn't 12 Messengers be able to take down 4 Lava Dragons on their own? (Specifically, Messengers as an upgraded unit that deals more damage). The damage from the ability here will be approximately double, depending on the creature's defense and health; for a level 6-7 unit, it's roughly equal to an attack with luck, maybe a little stronger.

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Offline RedHeavenHero
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#239
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Nargott
Possibly. Try changing it in the resources so that, for example, shamans receive +3 instead of +1 to stats and morale when performing a sacrifice. The game will completely ignore this, because +1 is hardcoded into the executable, not the resources. Or the duration of Berserk, no matter how you change the spell in the resources, it will still remain 1/1/1/2 turns, because that's what's specified in the executable.

In other words, the data in the resources can easily be ignored by the executable, i.e., the game itself.
Indeed. I checked it on the spell "Magic Bolt," made the level expert, and it took away 4 units of defense.

Added 5 minutes ago
Heroist
Thanks to the help of one kind person, I was able to create decent models for the Dark Knight, and improve the quality of the icons.
I am also working on weakening the Death faction.
By the way, for the future, so that kind people don't have to redo the textures, it is highly desirable to use textures for combat models for recoloring, and not LOD. X)

Added 2 minutes ago
And so on. The mod turned out great, it's interesting. :)
Карты для Героев Меча и Магии 5
Одиночные: Завеса срывается, Посол, Последний рывок, Эхо Пустоты
Кампания: Империя Единорога

Существа NCF
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Offline Heroist
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#240
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RedHeavenHero

By the way, for future reference, so that kind people don't have to redo textures, it's highly desirable to use textures for combat models, rather than LODs, for recoloring. X)

Added 2 minutes later
Anyway, the mod turned out great, it's interesting. :)

Yeah, that was my mistake.
Thanks.

By the way, I was thinking, there might be another imbalance with Necromancers in duels - the actual problem is that the number of Deaths no longer corresponds to the number of Dragons, i.e., the number of Banshees and Heralds in duels needs to be adjusted by a third.
12 Banshees = 6 weekly increments, not 4. (Well, technically 4, but we're using the formula for calculating strength that we have 2 Banshees per week). Therefore, we need a 4-week increment = 8 Banshees.
Since the number of units that used to be Dragons hasn't been reduced, this creates a slight imbalance in duels ;)

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