IGZ is an alternative to Hamachi, Leaf, and similar programs. — Tournament History

Oelm

17 years ago

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2asm: I would like to express my gratitude to the people who are developing the game, spending their time on it, practically driven only by their enthusiasm. Simultaneous turn-based gameplay up to 116 is a great idea. Also, the idea of blocking map viewing and saving – in my opinion, it's exactly what's needed! Regarding TE and SOD, I don't think either version is better. I prefer SOD, but I understand the fans of TE. But these are DIFFERENT games. And trying to force someone to give up one of the versions is stupid. If TE-Lite turns out to be bug-free, then perhaps it will be a great alternative to SOD. What I find funny in the TE advertisement (from what is written on the forum) is that it says that in SOD there is only 1 candidate for the starting hero, while in TE there are many. The reality turned out to be exactly the opposite; for example, Brogh for the Swamp faction, Tirax for the Barbarian faction, while in SOD, it is quite possible to have Tazar, Bron, Vistan, Crag, Gundula, Gurnisson, and even some kind of specialist in Orcs. What I like in TE is the interface, troop transfers, fast resource gathering, time control, weakening of Shahti, Galtaran. What I don't like in TE is the classes; out of a bunch of classes, only 2-3 are played throughout the game, due to the accelerated pace of the game, and no one makes a bet on anything other than the main ones (on the Sage), the bank, the incredible impoverishment of the game. Instead of worrying about building and buying, on turn 121, we stupidly build a Consulate, a Hive, and rush to the Treasury (for the CM template). Monster specializations, because of which, their parameters increase by 2-3 times + bonus. What I don't understand in TE is that the logistics were reduced, but thanks to the class, you can get the same 4000 movement points on the second level (I don't remember the class, Scouting + something else). They removed the scrolls, but instead, they made guild rebuilding. For me, it's more interesting to find the necessary scrolls, and build the guild once. What irritates me in TE is the developers' inattention to detail; for example, they removed the hatred between Titans vs. Black Dragons, as if it's okay. Hit-and-run, as far as I know, all the rules state that there is a ban on direct damage in the first round, so it is impossible to escape in any case after casting. That is, we are cutting down mages even more, so that no one would even think about leveling them up. What is the reason for the decline of the forum? It's not at all because they are playing TE; it's a voluntary thing. But the fact is that if you appear there, and your level of play is, let's say, at least average, then you will be humiliated ten times, and everyone will think that it's very funny. Therefore, I had a desire to register there, but over time, it completely disappeared. And the example of Neo is indicative; he behaved so peacefully, and yet they still harassed him. I myself would have given a couple of people from there a good beating in person, despite my natural non-aggressiveness. Thank you for your attention; everything is IMHO, but I will answer for what I said.

In reply to Oelm

asm

17 years ago

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Oelm

2asm: I would like to express my gratitude to the people who are developing the game, spending time on it, practically only out of their own enthusiasm. Simultaneous turn-based gameplay up to 116 is a great idea. Also, the idea of blocking the ability to view the map and save the game is, in my opinion, exactly what is needed!

Thank you for your support.
This will all be implemented. For example, a built-in autosave feature already exists, and I plan to make saves password-protected for 2 players. I won't save the map to disk at all, or maybe it will be possible to save it under a password in the first turn's save.

Oelm

Regarding TE and SOD, I don't think that any of the versions is better. I prefer SOD, but I also understand the fans of TE. But these are DIFFERENT games. And trying to force someone to give up one of the versions is stupid. If TE-Lite turns out to be free of bugs, then perhaps it will be a great alternative to SOD.

I repeat once again that I am not developing TE.
By the way, what bugs are there in TE-Lite?

Oelm

What I don't like about TE is the classes; out of a bunch of classes, only 2-3 are played throughout the game, due to the accelerated pace of the game, and no one makes bets on anything other than the main ones (on the Sage), the bank, an incredible impoverishment of the game. Instead of worrying about building and buying, on turn 121 we stupidly set up on a Consulate, Hive, and go to the Treasury (for the CM template). Specializations for monsters, because of which, their parameters increase by 2-3 times + bonus.

You are very right. I also don't like the classes. The goal was noble - to increase the competitiveness of unused skills, but the implementation failed (((
Monster specializations are also a problem; in fact, they are the only thing people play with in TE. They give too many bonuses - SOD's enhancement + a powerful stack + bonus + 25% health - that's too much.

Oelm

They removed the scrolls, but instead made a guild upgrade. For me, it's more interesting to find the necessary scrolls, and build the guild once.

I have an idea to implement the scrolls as follows: a scroll can only be used once, even without having a spellbook, after which it disappears. Do not generate scrolls with DD and Flight.

Oelm

What irritates me in TE. The developers' inattention to detail, for example, they removed the hatred between Titans vs. Black Dragons, as if it's okay. Hit-and-run, as far as I know, all the rules state that there is a ban on direct damage in the first round, so there is no way to escape after casting. That is, we are cutting mages even more, so that no one would even think about leveling them up.

You are a little wrong here. Horn tried very hard with the TE version. A very large and attentive job was done. The bug with Titans vs. Black Dragons was discovered only after almost 4 years. And Hit-and-run was made intentionally this way, because in the fixed tournaments that he held, the rule was interpreted differently than in random games. Moreover, he later even offered to change it for random games, but as usual, everyone ignored it and no one responded.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Oelm

17 years ago

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2asm: I suggest moving this topic to the "Round Table" section, as it is specifically designed for such discussions. Also, please explain why scrolls, for example, on the CM template are so terrible that they need to be replaced with something else?

In reply to Oelm

asm

17 years ago

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Oelm

2asm: I suggest moving the topic to the "Round Table" section, as it is designed for such discussions. Also, explain why scroll items, for example, on the CM template are so terrible that they need to be replaced with something else?

Why replace them? I suggest leaving them!
Just change their functionality, then there will be no need to specify a bunch of rules regarding the use of scrolls and magic, and there will be no need to check the correctness of this rule based on save files, etc.
In short, I suggest getting rid of the hassle.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Samurai

17 years ago

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Dirty_Player

2asm:
But the classes, changed secondary skills, specializations, magic, etc. – this is not what you should strive for!

This is a big misconception. I agree that in TE, the choice is approximately the same as in SoD for the main heroes. But! What is the build in SoD? It's mandatory logistics, attack, defense, tactics, air, and earth! A poor choice. In TE, it is significantly higher, and if you are not offered logistics, you can at least replace it with the Explorer class. The magic in TE is almost equivalent, while in SoD, earth dominates, then air, fire is a rare case, and water is generally an unnecessary magic. In TE, there is much more choice precisely because of the classes, secondary skills, magic, and specializations. And since there is more choice, there is less chance of losing because you were not given something compared to your opponent. I understand that you can argue with me, but the strongest (most, not all, of course) hero players (whether on SoD, TE, fixes, or random maps) are precisely from the forums, where TE dominates. Isn't that an indicator?

In reply to Samurai

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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He3Hauka

That's a big misconception.

The very idea of creating a balanced mod – that is, The Eastern Expansion (TE) – is a very sensible and necessary solution, but in TE, they went too far!
Although I played TE a lot, for me, Heroes is The Shadow of Death (SoD), and TE with its additions already has completely different priorities. For example, you might not even need to take Earth magic. Offense and defense too, the creature experience system compensates! In short, different priorities and different plans, and as a result, a different game.
As far as I know, no one wants to play on the base game anymore; the base game is dying.

In reply to asm

Scott Kevill

17 years ago

Hello, I am sorry I do not speak Russian. I have read this thread using Google Translate. I found HeroesWorld.ru from the link to GameRanger earlier in this thread.

I am the creator / developer of GameRanger, and I would like you to try using GameRanger to play Heroes 3 online.

GameRanger currently supports Heroes 3, 4, and 5. Heroes 1 and 2 may be added later.

People are already starting to prefer GameRanger on HeroesCommunity.com. Last week there were nearly 1000 games of Heroes 3 played on GameRanger. That number gets higher every week.

IGZ:
- IGZ has not been updated in over a year. Many requested games have not been added (even with 75 votes).

- IGZ launches games slowly. (IGZ launches Age of Empires II in 10 seconds, GameRanger launches Age of Empires II in less than 2 seconds).

- IGZ cannot do ratings for Heroes 3 because Heroes 3 does not support that. IGZ can only do ratings for the Age of Empires series.

- IGZ does not solve router/firewall problems. GameRanger eliminates those problems.

- IGZ client is slow and lags. GameRanger is fast and lightweight.

Hamachi:
- GameRanger is safer than Hamachi because it does not expose your whole computer to others.

- Hamachi was not designed for games. GameRanger was designed only for games.

- GameRanger is faster than Hamachi because it does not use LAN mode, and it has automatic launching.

- GameRanger has no network limits, so it will never be full.

And of course, anything is better than GameSpy.

IGZ already has support for Stronghold Crusader, but no one plays it. Everyone plays it on GameRanger. Last week there were 3000 games of Stronghold Crusader on GameRanger, and GameRanger is popular with Russian people from www.crusaderpc.ru

Sorry again about the English. (I am Australian, myself). I will try to continue following this thread with the translator.

In reply to asm

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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2asm:
Simultaneous turns would completely change the game and turn it into something else. And the game would lose more than it would gain from this.
And the "evolution" in the form of WoG (TE) also rather repels. An example of this is heroes.by, which is dying precisely because of TE, IMHO.
To retain and attract people to the game, TE should be brought closer to SoD, and not moved further away. It is possible to limit oneself to useful "features" such as quick army transfers, separating individual units, etc. Saving replays of battles would be a very useful thing! But classes, changed secondary skills, specializations, magic, etc. - this is not what we should strive for!

In reply to Scott Kevill

Wlk777

17 years ago

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Scott Kevill

Hello, I am sorry I do not speak Russian. I have read this thread using Google Translate. I found HeroesWorld.ru from the link to GameRanger earlier in this thread.

I am the creator / developer of GameRanger, and I would like you to try using GameRanger to play Heroes 3 online.

GameRanger currently supports Heroes 3, 4, and 5. Heroes 1 and 2 may be added later.

People are already starting to prefer GameRanger on HeroesCommunity.com. Last week there were nearly 1000 games of Heroes 3 played on GameRanger. That number gets higher every week.

IGZ:
- IGZ has not been updated in over a year. Many requested games have not been added (even with 75 votes).

- IGZ launches games slowly. (IGZ launches Age of Empires II in 10 seconds, GameRanger launches Age of Empires II in less than 2 seconds).

- IGZ cannot do ratings for Heroes 3 because Heroes 3 does not support that. IGZ can only do ratings for the Age of Empires series.

- IGZ does not solve router/firewall problems. GameRanger eliminates those problems.

- IGZ client is slow and lags. GameRanger is fast and lightweight.

Hamachi:
- GameRanger is safer than Hamachi because it does not expose your whole computer to others.

- Hamachi was not designed for games. GameRanger was designed only for games.

- GameRanger is faster than Hamachi because it does not use LAN mode, and it has automatic launching.

- GameRanger has no network limits, so it will never be full.

And of course, anything is better than GameSpy.

IGZ already has support for Stronghold Crusader, but no one plays it. Everyone plays it on GameRanger. Last week there were 3000 games of Stronghold Crusader on GameRanger, and GameRanger is popular with Russian people from www.crusaderpc.ru

Sorry again about the English. (I am Australian, myself). I will try to continue following this thread with the translator.

Can I practice my translation skills? ;)
Hello, sorry, I don't speak Russian. I read this thread using Google Translate. I found HeroesWorld.ru because GameRanger was mentioned earlier in this thread.
As the creator/developer of GameRanger, I would like to suggest playing Heroes 3 online through GameRanger.
Currently, GameRanger supports Heroes 3, 4, and 5. Heroes 1 and 2 may be added later.
People are already starting to prefer GameRanger on HeroesCommunity.com. For example, last week, over 1000 online games were played.
Disadvantages of IGZ:
IGZ hasn't been updated in over a year, and many requested games haven't been added to IGZ.
IGZ launches games more slowly; for example, Age of Empires launches in about 10 seconds on IGZ, while on GameRanger, it takes less than 2 seconds.
IGZ cannot create ratings for Heroes 3 because it is more geared towards Age of Empires.
IGZ has problems with firewalls/routers, while GameRanger doesn't.
IGZ is slow and laggy; GameRanger is fast and smooth.

Regarding Hamachi: Hamachi wasn't specifically designed for games. GameRanger doesn't use LAN emulation and is therefore faster and more reliable. Also, GameRanger has no connection limits.
And of course, GameRanger is much better than GameSpy.
IGZ supports Stronghold Crusader, but no one plays it there. Many people play Stronghold Crusader through GameRanger. Last week, over 3000 games were played through GameRanger, and Stronghold Crusader is becoming more popular among Russian people on www.crusaderpc.ru
I apologize again for writing in English; I am from Australia. I will continue to respond in this thread using a translator.

Added 6 minutes ago

Scott Kevill

Hello, I am sorry I do not speak Russian. I have read this thread using Google Translate. I found HeroesWorld.ru from the link to GameRanger earlier in this thread.

Dear Scott Kevill, thank you for your post. I hope people from Russia will play Heroes online with GameRanger. / Dear Scott Kevill, thank you for your post, I hope people from Russia will play Heroes through GameRanger.
P.S. This is all great, but as I understand it, to use GameRanger, you need a "white" IP address, and not everyone has one

In reply to asm

Alex_R

17 years ago

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asm

I don't understand how simultaneous turns could make a different game out of Heroes?It doesn't affect the gameplay
In Heroes 5 online, simultaneous turns are used, but they last until the first possible contact (if any hero is within 1 turn's distance moving toward the opponent (taking into account the opponent's move in the opposite direction) - it instantly switches to turn-based mode ... from my own experience, I played simultaneously from 112 to 211.
The only difficulty is that in Heroes 5, dimensional gates are used a maximum of 2 times per turn (taking up half a turn), and for a distance that never exceeds the length of a hero's normal move, whereas in Heroes 3 this is more problematic.
Respect to asm. I would like to see specifically an improved SoD, diluted by no more than TE-lite.

In reply to Dirty_Player

asm

17 years ago

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Dirty_Player

Simultaneous turns will completely change the game and, as a result, the game will lose more than it will gain.

I don't understand how simultaneous turns can turn Heroes into a different game? I repeat, I implement simultaneous turns without changing the gameplay at all! That is, it is assumed that players take turns simultaneously up to turn 116, i.e., until they can even meet! In the end, this will be customizable, and even the most skeptical players will be able to enable this feature, for example, up to turn 113.

Dirty_Player

And the "evolution" in the form of WoG (TE) is also more likely to repel. An example of this is heroes.by, which is dying precisely because of TE, IMHO.

And one more time: did I mention anywhere that I am making TE?

Dirty_Player

To attract and retain players, TE should be brought closer to SoD, not further away. You can limit yourself to useful "features" such as quick army transfers, separating individual units, etc. Saving replays of battles would be a very useful thing! But classes, changed secondary skills, specializations, magic, etc. - this is not what we should strive for!

I also share these principles.

In reply to asm

Wlk777

17 years ago

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asm

I don't understand how simultaneous turns can turn Heroes into a different game? I repeat, I'm implementing simultaneous turns without changing the gameplay at all! That is, it is assumed that players take turns simultaneously up to turn 116, i.e., until they even have a chance to meet!

That makes sense, and if they meet, then there's a rest, i.e., the system would be suitable for scenarios that involve restarting after a meeting up to a certain day, and of course, without computer opponents.

StickyFingaz

17 years ago

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Regarding GameRanger - it doesn't support The Shadow of Death or In the Wake of Gods, which means it also doesn't support The Succession Wars. There's no rating system, and I couldn't find any game statistics. There are no separate lobbies for games. Install IGZ and compare them. Anyway, you can switch to it if you want, I don't mind.

IGZ launches games slower, for example, Age of Empires launches in about 10 seconds on IGZ, and less than 2 seconds on GameRanger.

lol, those 8 seconds compared to the game time are not noticeable.

IGZ cannot create ratings for Heroes 3.

That's a lie - it can.

IGZ is slow and has lag.

That's also a lie.

In reply to StickyFingaz

Wlk777

17 years ago

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StickyFingaz

Regarding GameRanger - it doesn't support The Shadow of Death or In the Wake of Gods, which means it doesn't support The Restoration of Erathia either. There's no rating system, and I couldn't find any game statistics. There are no separate lobbies for games. Install IGZ and compare them. But honestly, you can switch to that one if you want, I don't care.

Just so you know, I have no complaints about this, I just translated it.

In reply to asm

Dirty_Player

17 years ago

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asm

I don't understand how simultaneous turns can turn Heroes into a different game? I'll repeat again - I'm implementing simultaneous turns without changing the gameplay at all! That is, it is assumed that players take turns simultaneously up to turn 116, i.e., until they even have a chance to meet! In the end, this will be configurable, and even the most skeptical players will be able to enable this feature, for example, up to turn 113.

Well, that's a completely different matter! Respect for the idea!!!!