Skip to content

Posts from [ТУРНИР HMM IV OFF] " New World "

5.0 (2 ratings)
In reply to General ZeT
User Avatar
Auto-translated
General ZeT;134102
As I promised, there will be an "Anti-Cheat System" that will protect the map from most cheat codes.
GREAT, WELL DONE – you're making a map that Monsters (or, for now, just one Monster – IronAxe) refuse to complete because they don't have time for a QUALITY WALKTHROUGH, and now you also want to ban cheat codes for Scouting. I APPLAUD you.
Basically – I don't play myself, and I won't let others play either.
P.S. It would be great to play OFFLINE yourself and understand the specifics of the game before imposing restrictions on it.
С самого начала позаботься о своем месте в жизни, чтобы не уподобиться маятнику. /Херберт. Ф./
Клан: "Смертельный Альянс" - "Mortal Alliance"
In reply to LeSHiJ-MaX
User Avatar
Auto-translated
BigAke;134134
So, are we going to complete the map only through scouting and skirmishes? Or will cheat codes work for scouting?

At least leave nwcares... It's frustrating to win a bunch of battles and then realize you went the wrong way :-(

LeSHiJ-MaX;134156
GREAT, WELL DONE - you're making a map that Monsters refuse to complete (or so far, only one Monster - IronAxe) due to the lack of time for a QUALITY playthrough, and now you also want to ban cheat codes for scouting, I APPLAUD.
Like - I don't play it myself, and I won't let others play it either.
P.S. It would be cool to play it offline yourself and understand the specifics of the game before imposing restrictions on it.

I haven't figured out how to completely block the nwcares code yet; I just don't know how to do it, but I'm trying to create a system. The Nwcprometheus code - to reveal the map - I will be able to tell if you used it by looking at your save file (30% probability). I'm blocking codes for summoning all creatures, partially the nwcathena code. In theory, protection against the nwchermes code is ready. Building structures using codes will also be blocked. The resource code will also be included in the "Anti-Cheat" system. Hmm... I think that's all. You won't get the map; you'll just get a save file. That should be enough. Moreover, each side will have at least two paths to victory. And each side will have its own story. You won't have to fight against everyone. There is a specific goal. And if you get the map, you will easily find a solution to this goal.
:smile17:
In reply to General ZeT
User Avatar
Auto-translated
General ZeT;134185
I haven't figured out how to completely block the nwcares code yet; I just don't know how to do it, but I'm trying to create a solution. The Nwcprometheus code – reveals the map – I can tell if you've used this code by examining your save file (30% probability). I'm blocking codes for summoning all creatures, partially the nwcathena code. In theory, protection against the nwchermes code is ready. Building structures using codes will also be blocked. The resource code will also be included in the "Anti-Cheat" system. Hmm... I think that's everything. You won't get the map; you'll just get a save file. That's enough. Moreover, each side will have at least two paths to victory. And each side will have its own story. You won't have to fight against everyone. There is a specific goal. And if you get the map, you can easily find a solution to this goal.

I don't really understand... how will a save file work without a map? And how can you tell if someone has used cheat codes if everyone uses them for scouting and then plays with a clean save?:confused:

And checking if a player has used a cheat to reveal territory is simple: a bunch of undefeatable monsters, but the territory is still revealed :-)
E Pluribus Unum Officer


http://elkstyle.ucoz.ru
User Avatar
Auto-translated
I chose this forum because I learned how to play online here. Thanks to OptiMAL. Almost everyone here talks about how to complete offline maps more easily and correctly; a huge thank you to IronAxe and Undergrounder. Why are there restrictions that don't encourage player development but instead encourage players to spend their personal time completing maps? After all, in a clean playthrough, everyone plays fairly. :smile39: :smile39: :smile39:

Added after 6 minutes
BigAke;134188
I don't understand... how will a save without a map work?
It works like in any tournament: you simply put the initial save in the games folder and then continue playing from that save. ;)
С самого начала позаботься о своем месте в жизни, чтобы не уподобиться маятнику. /Херберт. Ф./
Клан: "Смертельный Альянс" - "Mortal Alliance"
User Avatar
Auto-translated
2General Zet
You know, your New World map is probably the most beautiful one I've ever seen, so I really regret not having the time to play it (it's not like Heroes 5, where you can finish a map in an evening), and I have great respect for your map-making skills. But I'll allow myself to give you two pieces of advice.
1. Organize a new tournament so that it doesn't overlap with any other major event, such as the World Championship, because the popularity of Heroes 4 isn't that high, and you're losing potential participants.
2. Don't overdo it with the cheat ban. I'm not against it if it's clear whether nwcAres was used in the final run, and it's not even that necessary if the battle isn't being played, because Iron or Under will notice it anyway, but everything else is clearly unnecessary. Having a cheat system saves a lot of real time during scouting (Heroes 4 is already the most time-consuming, and even more so on your maps), and a revealed map can also save time in the final run.
I'm blocking the codes for summoning all creatures, partially the nwcathena code, and theoretically, I'm ready with protection against the nwchermes code.
Without these codes, it's impossible to play Heroes 4 in scouting mode.
Or am I misunderstanding you, and you're just going to introduce the ability to see if cheats were used during the final run? That's certainly a useful thing to do. But objectively, you still won't be able to track nwcprometheus if you don't ban it completely, otherwise, you can just save, reveal, and load. nwcares is being reduced, but the other cheats still don't make sense in scouting.
User Avatar
Auto-translated
Indeed, I want participants in the final playthrough to complete the map without using codes. I'm not completely banning codes, but if a script detects that you've used a code and can't determine how you obtained it or how you managed to do it, it will assign you a variable. Then, on the next turn, you'll receive a message about your defeat. This is all to ensure fairness, but I understand that many of you disagree with my "Anti-Cheat" system. Hmm... I don't even know what to say; I thought it would be the opposite, and you would like my idea. Well, for now, I'll put the "Anti-Cheat" system on hold for a while and continue writing scenarios. Please share your opinions about this system.
:smile17:
In reply to General ZeT
User Avatar
Auto-translated
General ZeT;134205
Indeed, I want participants in the clean playthrough to complete the map without using codes. I'm not completely banning codes, but if a script detects that you've used a code and can't determine how you obtained it or how you managed to do it, it will assign you a variable. Then, on the next turn, you'll receive a message about your defeat. All of this is to ensure fairness, but I understand that many of you disagree with my "Anti-Cheat" system. Hmm... I don't even know what to say; I thought you would like my idea. Well, I'll put the "Anti-Cheat" system on hold for a while and continue writing scenarios. Share your opinions about this system.
It seems that in Heroes of Might and Magic III, if you use cheats, a message like "red cheater" will appear in the final results (this won't hinder scouting, but according to your plan, the game would crash during scouting after one turn). If you don't believe that we're playing your maps fairly, do the same, but I'll repeat: Players who value their reputation will never use cheats in a clean playthrough, and all tournament participants value their reputation.
E Pluribus Unum Officer


http://elkstyle.ucoz.ru
User Avatar
Auto-translated
I really want participants in the "clean" playthrough to complete the map without using any cheats.
If it's only for the "clean" playthrough, then no problem. This will allow us to monitor all playthroughs, not just the best ones.
I'm not completely banning cheats, I'm just saying that if a certain cheat is used, and the script can't figure out where it came from or how you managed to do it, it will assign you a variable. After that, on the next turn, you'll receive a message about your defeat.
But here's where the problem lies. I want to see how the AI performs with cheats, but after a turn, I get a defeat message. It would be better if it just displayed a message on the screen saying "cheater," like in Heroes of Might and Magic III. And that's it for the rest of the game.
And I'm simply technically interested in how you're going to disable Prometheus; it's not exactly a simple cheat, but rather a certain state of the program's operation, since all maps and saves are loaded in an "unlocked" state after it.
But in general, you know, cheating is more of an ethical problem. If a knowledgeable person wants to, they can bypass any anti-cheat system. Although some kind of additional control system wouldn't hurt, but only if it's implemented carefully and reasonably. You've taken on a rather difficult task. Good luck.
In reply to BigAke
User Avatar
Auto-translated
BigAke;134221
It seems that in the third game, if you use cheats, a message like "red cheater" will appear in the final results.

Maybe in the fourth game, it's technically more difficult to do?:smile32:

As I understand it, the problem lies in checking the integrity of the playthrough and automating it? I apologize if I'm saying something incorrect from a technical point of view, but instead of the "you lost" event and the end of the game, couldn't you replace it with something like the disappearance or appearance of an object on the map, say a neutral army, that cannot be reached in any way (surrounded on all sides by forest, or sitting behind a fence)? A kind of conscience guardian that appears when the game is played unfairly or runs away in shame for the player.
Place it in a convenient location for the reviewer.
Thus, the system doesn't need to be radically reworked, and it won't affect the convenience of a rough playthrough.:smile02:

Or is it still more difficult than a "red cheater"?:smile39:
midzhajj клан "E pluribus unum"
In reply to BigAke
User Avatar
Auto-translated
BigAke;134188

It's very easy to check if a player used a cheat to reveal the territory: there are a lot of undefeatable monsters, but the territory is still revealed. :-)
:) And have you tried entering this code again? The territory will be closed again :) Even in a clean playthrough :)

Added 2 minutes ago
midzhajj;134229
with a fence) It's like a conscience guardian that appears when the player cheats or runs away in shame.
Place it in a convenient location for the checker.
Thus, there is no need to radically rework the system, and it will not affect the convenience of a rough playthrough.:smile02:
If they do it this way, it would be better if it appears - it will be harder to figure out where and what should appear. And running away, they'll organize it in five seconds with a hacker :)

Added 11 minutes ago
General ZeT;134205
I really want the participants in the clean playthrough to complete the map without codes.
The idea is interesting. If you completely disable all cheat codes, and most importantly, nwcPrometheus and nwcAres, then the assumption is that a player who plays the map once a month will not do a second playthrough. That is, a clean playthrough is like reconnaissance :) It's like a desire to put all players on an even more equal footing. And so that tedious, long battles are really fought manually :) But it is unlikely that this can be implemented. Besides cheats, there is also ArtMoney and a Hacker - manual save hacking. That is, by closing the cheats, you can do the opposite. There may be a significant inequality between the players who know how to use ArtMoney and a Hacker, and those who don't. And cheats are easy to use, and everyone knows how to use them. The question of checking the purity of the playthrough is a separate question. Does it really matter how the player completed the battle if it is actually won as he describes the winning tactic in this battle, and the mana, potions, and troops after the battle correspond to what was spent.

Added 6 minutes ago
General ZeT;134205
Write your opinion about this system.
Well, I wrote it above. I have a question for you. You closed the cheats, and in a clean playthrough, you need to complete a long battle. If the battle is completed with ArtMoney or manual hacking, will your script determine this?
In reply to General ZeT
User Avatar
Auto-translated
General ZeT;134205
When executing a specific code, if the script doesn't understand where you got it from or how you managed to do it, it will assign you a variable. After that, on the next turn, you'll receive a message about defeat.
I'm expecting more fun – it's a long and tedious process to explain to the script "how I managed to do it." :D
And if it turns out to be uncooperative, it's easier to find the variable in the save file and insert the correct value.
No, I'm not really excited about that prospect. For protection against cheating, the accepted norm here seems to be quite sufficient: "submit save files and explanations!"

Yes, there's a lead regarding Prometheus. If you enable a cheat, plot a route for an army into a "black" area, and then save, that save file will indicate the use of code. Loading it with "Prometheus on" and "Prometheus off" shows the difference – "there is a route" and "there is no route."
Although I don't see a major problem with playing on an open map, I'll still note: you need to end your turn with the cheat turned off; otherwise, the open map may change the behavior of the AI.
I am not useless - I can be used as a bad example!
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
Auto-translated
IronAxe;134282
:) Have you tried entering this code again? The territory will close :) Even on a clean playthrough :)
Added 2 minutes later


I didn't even try to enter it on the first attempt (but I thought that if the code was entered once, it would remain active :( ...). I'm checking the territory through the map in the editor:D, but if I need to check the nearby computers, I'll run around the area, then reload, and then go where I need to:D
E Pluribus Unum Officer


http://elkstyle.ucoz.ru
User Avatar
Auto-translated
I would like to register for the tournament.
Sincerely, Koren Zla
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
Auto-translated
IronAxe;134282
So, you close the cheats and then have to play through a long, legitimate battle. If the battle is won using Arty or manual hacking, will your script detect that?

Answer:
General ZeT;134185
I haven't figured out how to block the nwcares code yet; I just don't know how to do it, but I'm trying to create a solution. The Nwcprometheus code - to reveal the map - I can detect if you used it by examining your save file (30% probability). I'm blocking codes for summoning all creatures, partially blocking the nwcathena code. Theoretically, I have a defense against the nwchermes code ready. Building structures using codes will also be blocked. The resource code will also be included in the "Anti-Cheat" system. Hmm... I think that's everything. You won't get the map; you'll just get the save file. That's enough. Moreover, each side will have at least two paths to victory, and each side will have its own story. You won't have to fight against everyone. There's a specific goal. And if you get the map, you can easily find a solution to that goal.

Okay, I won't finish the "Anti-Cheat" system. This means that the number of paths to victory will be reduced by at least 6, which means that no side will have a choice of paths and their own story. Everyone will have standard victory conditions: destroy everyone and capture all cities. This will also make my task significantly easier, and I can spend more time on the map's landscape.
:smile17:
In reply to General ZeT
User Avatar
Auto-translated
I'm sending the save file. Special thanks and a big bow for such a brilliant map!:smile41: I couldn't reach some places... But overall, this masterpiece fills me with pure childlike joy!:D :smile54:
P.S. It's a pity the semester started, otherwise I would have competed with the elite!;) Otherwise, I don't even know if I can provide competition to anyone...:(
P.P.S. And another question, not related to the topic: what does morale give (in particular, its increase and decrease)?
Через тернии к звездам...
http://r.carnage.ru/?1001082293 - игра для людей, которые любят поговорить и им нечего делать...

Statistics

Welcome our newest member: Emil