Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.

They are equal in strength. Therefore, the one with the lower growth rate has a higher tier (based on the rarity criterion).

Okay, and what do you think would be a good way to tie the base construction time to? To the growth rate, strength, or something else?

It's already spread out; Knights appear later in the tech tree (because they are stronger overall).

Added 23 minutes ago
I calculated the balance of human unit growth according to the scheme.

Growth rates:
Militia 150 x (10-30) x 2
Archers 250 x (8-24)
Swordsmen 400 x (5-15)
Monks 600 x (5-10)
Knights 1000 x (4-8)
Griffins 1000 x (3-6)
Angels 3000 x 2

Fort, Stronghold: +100% growth rate for tiers 1-3
Castle: +100% growth rate for tiers 4-6
Upgrades: one-time increase = current growth rate (enhanced by fortifications)
Farms: double the growth rate of corresponding units (militia)

Training Grounds: training (upgrade) is free, limit = 8 units per week. This is done so that the limit can be reduced to reasonable levels (to prevent Knights from becoming too powerful), but at the same time, the building remains relevant and strong.

Maximum possible number of units hired by the second week:
Militia = 10 (base) + 10 (growth) x 3 (Stronghold or Castle) x 2 (farms) + 10 x 3 (upgrade) = 100 (total cost 15000)
Archers = 8 + 8x3 + 8x3 = 56 (total cost 14000)
Swordsmen = 5 + 5x3 + 5x3 = 35 (total cost 14000)
Monks = 5 + 5x2 (Castle) + 5x2 = 25 (total cost 15000)
Knights = 4 + 4x2 + 4x2 = 20 (total cost 20000)
Griffins = 3 + 3x2 + 3x2 = 15 (total cost 15000)
Angels = 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 (total cost 18000)

Fortress, Stronghold: +100% growth rate for tiers 1-3
Castle: +100% growth rate for tiers 4-6
Upgrades: one-time bonus equal to the current growth rate (enhanced by fortifications)
Farms: double the growth rate of corresponding creatures (militia)

Not bad, but I think tiers 3 and 4 are too similar and shouldn't be separated, and I think giving the Fortress such a large boost to tier 3 is too much (in the standard game, it didn't accelerate creature growth).
I would do it this way: Fortress - tiers 1-2, Stronghold - tiers 1-4, Castle - tiers 3-6 (if a growth bonus for tiers 1-2 isn't needed).

Regarding Upgrades, I've decided that they will be enhanced by modifications, but should the bonus equal the base value? (perhaps that's better than just 100 or 200% of the base).
Do Farms double the base growth rate or the growth rate with modifications? If it's only the base, that's fine, but if it's with the Fortress bonus, I think it's too much.

Farms double the current growth rate, as the base +10 militia per week is not very useful. Now, farms near a Stronghold or Castle will increase the militia growth from 30 to 60.

Farms double the current growth rate because the base +10 militia per week is not very useful. Currently, farms under a Castle or Stronghold will increase the militia growth from 30 to 60.

If farms will boost unpopular units like militia, dancers, minotaurs... then it will be okay. But for popular units like beasts or Rune Priests, such a large boost is not needed. In my opinion, the optimal solution would be to make a 3rd-tier growth boost ("farms") for only the least popular unit in each Castle.

The creature growth rate on a particular tier will be adjusted to match the farms, so there are no significant imbalances. For example, humans don't have such imbalances. The maximum growth rate of militia under a castle and farms is +60, for a total of 9,000. The maximum growth rate of knights under a castle is +8, for a total of 8,000. There is no significant difference, and knights can be additionally trained, while militia cannot. Considering all factors (one-time recruitment, upgrade, growth rate), on the 2nd week, militia are not among the leaders, even with farms, but only in the middle (see the list 2 posts above).

Not bad, but I think tier 3-4 is too similar and shouldn't be divided. Also, I think giving Fortress the ability to speed up tier 3 units is too much (it didn't speed up units in the standard game).
I would do it like this: Fortress - tiers 1-2, Stronghold - tiers 1-4, Castle - tiers 3-6 (if a boost for tiers 1-2 isn't needed).

What do you think of this idea?

P.S. I think the unit stats are pretty much finalized. Now we need to look at the other factions. I think we should first create pre-release building schemes for all factions, and then adjust the various upgrade options for Fortress and other buildings accordingly. And then, as you said, we can balance the growth rates.

Presumably, the Fortress served the function of demanding many resources from captured villages in order to be able to produce creatures there. In Heroes 3, this requirement was absolute (the Fortress provided access to any dwellings), while in Heroes 5 it was more lenient (the Fortress provided access to the Stronghold and the Castle, without which the growth rate was halved).

Of course, different growth schemes can be considered, but the main thing is that it should be possible to select such growth rates that will provide balance (wide variability).

the main thing is to be able to find such upgrades for them that will maintain balance (wide variability).

I absolutely agree! We need to focus on wide variability; everything else is secondary.

Scheme update:


Angels, in addition to Monks, require an additional level 2 Mage Guild.

1. Militia = (8-48) x 150, max 7200 (with farms)
2. Archers = (6-18) x 250, max 4500
3. Swordsmen = (5-15) x 400, max 6000
4. Monks = (5-10) x 600, max 6000
5. Knights = (4-8) x 1000, max 8000
6. Griffins = (3-6) x 1000, max 6000
7. Angels = 2 x 3000 = 6000

Fort, Stronghold: +100% growth for tiers 1-3 (total x3)
Castle: +100% growth for tiers 4-6 (total x2)
Upgrades: one-time influx = current growth (enhanced by fortifications)
Farms: double the weekly growth of corresponding creatures

I decided to set the Fort as pre-built by default. Since this building is almost always necessary, but at the same time slows down the pace (typical development to a Castle without a Fort in the first week would take as much as 3 days of construction out of 7).
In villages (secondary towns), the Fort is not built (but the Tavern and Tier-1 building are, as in the main town). This means that when capturing a village, we will have to invest in building a Fort in order to be able to actively produce creatures (without a Fort, only magical creatures and Tier-1 can be built, which is already built).

How can this be graphically represented? After all, for an arrow, the start and end points are indicated by coordinates.
And another question - I know that the implementation of bonuses is done through scripts, but is it possible to influence the standard bonuses of 50 and 100 from the Stronghold and Castle in a standard way (by finding the corresponding lines in the data.pak) or is it all in the executable file?

Dungeon scheme:

1. Scouts = (6-18) x 250, max 3750
2. Beasts = (4-12) x 400, max 4800
3. Minotaurs = (4-12) x 600, max 7200
4. Predators = (4-8) x 750, max 6000
5. Witches = (4-8) x 1000, max 8000
6. Hydras = (1-2) x 3000, max 6000
7. Dragons = 1 x 6000 = 6000

Instead of a starting Tier 1 unit, the Dungeon starts with a Tier 1 Mage Guild.

Added 4 minutes ago

How can this be graphically represented? After all, the arrow indicates the beginning and end with coordinates.
And another question - I know that the implementation of growth rates is done through scripts, but can I influence the standard bonuses of 50 and 100 from the Stronghold and Castle in a standard way (find the corresponding lines in the data.pak) or is it all in the executable file?

The side arrows will not be displayed on the city screen.
It is impossible to influence the standard bonuses, and even if it were possible, it would be useless within WGE. Since the main essence of fortifications here lies not only in the fact that they do not boost Tier 7 (you cannot have +2 dragons per week), but also in the fact that they boost the lower tiers (1-3) much more than the higher tiers (4-6), and thus the lower tiers, with the support of fortifications, are able to even outpace the higher tiers, thereby ensuring a stepped development (under the Stronghold, the lower tiers are stronger, under the Castle - the higher tiers).

In my opinion, having Hydras appear on day three is too much; they are simply too effective at breaking through defenses.

In Heroes 3, on days 3-4, Ifrits were built; they were a top-tier unit for early-game attacks in the first week. And Beasts were built even earlier, on days 2-3 (in terms of attack power, one Beast wasn't much weaker than two Ifrits). On days 1-2, Rocs and Wyverns were summoned (less effective, but even faster). Initially, there was a connection from the Stronghold to Hydras. I removed it because I wanted to support effective early-game strategies that didn't rely on the Stronghold in the first week. Humans have this option if they develop towards Angels. But Dark Elves don't have the option to play a Dragon-based strategy without the Stronghold. I aimed to ensure that no building in the first week was always essential, including the Stronghold. For Humans, there are 4 options with Militia and Archers: 1) A connection from Militia to Archers. 2) A connection from Militia to Archers, but without a connection from the Fortress to Archers. 3) A connection from Militia to the Fortress. 4) No connections from Militia. For typical scenarios (with Tier 1 and a Fortress), there's no difference. For villages (without a Fortress), option #2 will allow Archers to be built immediately. For an atypical scenario (with a Fortress but no Tier 1), options #3 and #4 will allow Archers to be built immediately (but option #3 would look strange because the Fortress is built bypassing the Militia requirements). Finally, in the minimal scenario (without a Fortress and without Tier 1), in options #1 and #3, it takes 3 days to develop to Archers (Tier 1, Fortress are intermediate steps). In options #2 and #4, Archers can be built on day 2 (after Tier 1/Fortress). Regarding the Dungeon, I'm still considering what to do with the growth rates of Scouts and Beasts:

1. Scouts = (5-15) x 250, max 3750
2. Beasts = (4-12) x 400, max 4800
3. Minotaurs = (4-12) x 600, max 7200

1) Do nothing. 2) Increase the growth rate of Scouts from 5-15 to 6-18 (max 4500). 3) Increase the growth rate of Beasts from 4-12 to 5-15 (max 6000). 4) Increase the growth rate of both Scouts and Beasts. Also, it's questionable whether a requirement from the Castle to the Shipyard should be set, or whether the Shipyard should be independent (in which case, the Shipyard would theoretically be available in any village without a Fortress, provided the required town level is reached). The training limit will be increased from 8 to 10 creatures per week (while training remains free).