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Posts from NHF – new heroes for Heroes V 3.1.

Mods: Tribes of the East
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Offline Nargott
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#2528
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No, it hasn't stopped; it's progressing in stages. At this stage, the heroes themselves are being quietly developed, but nothing has been published yet, except perhaps information about the wheel.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Offline Dyrman
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#2529
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The dynamic gameplay relies more on the map. And many players enjoy taking their time before the final stage.
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
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Offline majestic
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#2530
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Make it so that Erin (Warlock) starts the game with 1 Sorceress, because currently she only gets one after a week, while other heroes get them right away.
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Offline Nargott
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#2531
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Dyrman
The dynamic nature of the game depends more on the map. And many people like to savor the game before the finale.
It's not just about the map. The same city development in regular Heroes 5 shows that a player won't be able to build top-tier structures before the end of the second week, let alone upgrade them. So, what kind of dynamic gameplay can we talk about? Only about rushes.

Those who enjoy a long game can do so on any mod; the question is, what is the balance tailored for? In the original game, the balance is clearly designed for a relatively long game with a finale around 2 months. This means that at shorter timeframes, the balance is disrupted (for example, Chaos magic), and therefore, the game becomes less interesting.

An example is the perk for "Recruiting." What is +5% troops per day, rounded down? Not that much, if we're talking about a dynamic game and short timeframes. But what if the game lasts for a month? It's overpowered. On the other hand, if it's, for example, +2%, it could be a good perk in a long game, but absolute garbage in a fast-paced game. Are we suggesting that we should consider long timeframes when creating useless perks? No, quite the opposite; if the opponent drags the game out, they are to blame. Dragging the game out is also a strategy that should have its counters.

Although, in principle, this is exactly the kind of perk that could simply have different numbers for different projects, but the same general meaning.
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Offline Dyrman
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#2532
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The point of the argument is unclear – it's a basic strategy that any experienced player would use. I provided the most normal and straightforward way to have a dynamic game on the map without unnecessary complications (note the word "more"). Furthermore, if we're going to discuss this, it shouldn't be in this thread.
majestic
Make it so that Erin (the Necromancer) starts the game with 1 Witch, because right now she only gets one after a week, while other heroes get them right away.
A Witch is a level 6 creature. Giving her one at the start would be too strong. Just like Axel getting a Knight, Shaka getting a Wyvern, etc. The idea came to me to create 2 hero classes for each Faction, and each hero could choose a class immediately after purchase. This is how I envision the class system. It would just be a different percentage chance for stat distribution (the skill tree remains unchanged, so there's no point in changing the percentage chance for skills). Pros: - No need for a modified executable file; - Any hero can become a representative of any class within their Faction; - The original class will remain, and you can play as before by agreeing not to change it. Even not immediately after purchase, but only at level 1 (or at least at level 1 for free). It can be easily implemented through a scripted travel spell. Unfortunately, it won't be possible to surprise the opponent, because we have the tavern
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
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Offline Ment
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#2533
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I think that if different classes have the same skills and the same skill tree, then the point of having different classes is lost. The connections in the skill tree should initially take into account the percentage chance of stat drops for each class and be structured in such a way as to create a choice (either you upgrade a skill with high synergy with your stat, but it may not be the most useful skill overall; or you upgrade a skill with little or no synergy with your main stats, but for some reason it might turn out to be extremely useful, for example, defense for dark elves).
This is just my humble opinion.
 

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Offline Dyrman
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#2534
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Ment
I think that if different classes have the same skills and the same skill tree, then the point of having classes is lost. The connections in the skill tree should initially take into account the percentage chance of stats appearing for each class and be structured in such a way as to create a choice (either you upgrade a skill with high synergy with your stat, but it may not be the most useful skill in itself; or you upgrade a skill with little or no synergy with your main stats, but for some reason it may turn out to be extremely useful, for example, damage per turn for the Dark Elves).
That's just my humble opinion.
That's right, if the classes are opposites of each other.
But the focus of the faction's troops shows that it is unlikely to work well, just like a racial skill. Plus, only two schools of high-level spells appear in the cities.
This defines the classes. Therefore, it is stupid to give other magical schools a higher chance of appearing when there won't even be spells of that school...

At least for this reason, there won't be opposite classes.

Added 4 minutes later
Now the skill tree provides a fairly good choice in different directions. In addition, I want to leave the factions with their uniqueness, even if it's in the same rare skills, without classes covering all the "gaps" in the skill tree.

Added 4 minutes later
Regarding damage per turn for the Dark Elves. And it's good that the percentage of defense won't change.
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
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Offline Ment
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#2535
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That's correct, if the classes are opposites of each other.
In this case, I didn't quite express myself correctly. I meant not the classes within one faction, but the heroes of different factions. That is, in my opinion, individual skill trees for different factions should take into account the stats of that faction.
 

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Offline Dyrman
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#2536
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Ment
In this case, I didn't quite express myself correctly. I meant not classes within one faction, but heroes from different factions.
That's exactly how I understood it =)
Ment

That is, in my opinion, individual skill trees for different factions should take into account the stats of that faction.
This is clear and understandable.
A Mage will remain a Mage even in another class.

But I'll repeat, but in a different way, that there shouldn't be big differences within factions. For example, an Academic won't be a 100% Warrior, and if we want a Warrior, we play, for example, as a Knight.
If there were two classes within the Academic faction: a Mage and a Warrior, this would mean that they are opposites. And this shouldn't be the case, because a Warrior is a different faction, and we would lose the uniqueness of the faction.

Added 4 minutes later
For example, let's say there are an Academic and a Wizard from the Academy.
The first remains as is, the second receives a bonus to magic due to knowledge.
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
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Offline Ment
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#2537
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In that case, I don't see the point even more... You'll create a new entity, but the change in the gameplay will be minor.
 

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Offline Dyrman
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#2538
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Ment
Then I don't see the point even more... You'll create a new entity, but the change in gameplay will be minor.
We can think about how to make it not minor. ;)
The Necromancer has a good chance of getting combat skills (defense, attack).
But instead of making him a pure warrior, we should shift the focus from defense to attack, while balancing knowledge and magic.

Added 3 minutes later
There was once an idea in this thread to give some heroes within a Faction other classes. For example, give the Djinn race within the Academy Faction a different stat distribution.

Added 54 seconds later
The task now is to change the skill tree as little as possible.
Although everything can be done as a separate module, as suggested above.

Added 9 minutes later
SRD
Here's the icon.
The icon is good. Let's think about how to implement the wave itself.

Added 7 hours 2 minutes later
For some reason, I had the idea to make all skills primary and balance their strength. Will the game often repeat the skill distribution...?
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
Мир надо уничтожить... Чтобы создать свой...
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Offline Nargott
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#2539
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Dyrman
For some reason, I had the idea to make all skills primary and balance their strength. Will the game frequently repeat the same skill appearing...?
The perks are structured with connections not only for aesthetics and order but also to reduce the element of randomness. Getting one basic perk out of 3 can be difficult, and getting it out of 7-10 is only possible with luck. And besides, without a structure, the entire skill progression system is lost, in favor of a random chance. With a structure, the task is reduced to getting the parent perk of level 1, and then upgrading the desired perks of levels 2 and 3 is almost automatic (there are no branches, or there are only 2, not 3, elements).
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Автор Асимметричных шахмат
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Offline SRD
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#2540
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Nargott
The perks are arranged in structures with connections not only for aesthetics and order but also to reduce the element of randomness. Getting one basic perk out of 3 can be difficult, and getting it out of 7-10 is only possible with luck. And besides, without a structure, the entire skill progression disappears, in favor of a roulette.

With a structure, the task is reduced to getting the parent perk of level 1, and then upgrading the desired perks of levels 2 and 3 almost automatically (there are no branches, or there are only 2, not 3).
I agree, I am in favor of having a structure, and it is also logical when one skill is a development of another (for example, storm wind from the lord of storms).
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline Dyrman
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#2541
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SRD
I agree, I'm in favor of having a structure, and it makes sense when one skill is a development of another (for example, Storm Wind from the Lord of Storms).
In the old skill tree, that's how it is. But again, this is an aesthetic connection, not a mechanical one.

Some skills are simply impossible without a connection (enchanted ballista, exploding corpses, etc.).

If there are only 6 skills in a school, and they don't repeat each other in the order they appear, the amount of randomness will be small (but is that really the case?).

Added after 3 minutes
Nargott
Perks are arranged in structures with connections not only for beauty and order, but also to reduce the amount of randomness.
Actually, there's no beauty in it. When it's illogical for one skill to lead to another.

Regarding randomness, we need to look at the repetition of skill appearances with 6 skills.
If they are constant, then we need to look for a different scheme.

Added after 5 minutes
As I understand it, when leveling up, the game doesn't care whether it's a level 3 perk or a level 2 perk that is being upgraded (the difference is only between level 1 and 2/3).
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
Мир надо уничтожить... Чтобы создать свой...
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Offline Nargott
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#2542
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Dyrman

If there are only 6 skills available in school, and their appearance doesn't repeat consecutively, the randomness will be small (but is it really?).
The randomness will be high (higher than it is now) in any case. And what does "doesn't repeat" mean? The same perk can be offered multiple times; it seems you haven't leveled up in a while, considering you're suggesting ideas that would not only eliminate the ability to level up properly but also the ability to level up effectively as a whole. :)
As for me, there's nothing beautiful about it. When it's illogical for one skill to lead to another.
Well, everyone has their own logic, but the structure itself looks better than complete chaos (without any connections at all).
As I understand it, when leveling up, the game doesn't care whether it's a third-level perk or a second-level perk that's being used for leveling (the difference only matters between levels 1 and 2/3).
Yes.
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