Дегустация Horn of the Abyss — Tournament History online

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Announcement

Wicc

11 years ago

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The show tournament by twaryna is still ongoing, and it's already clear that the version has turned out to be quite playable. Some minor edits are still possible, but overall, the gameplay will not change in the foreseeable future.

Therefore, we are starting an open HotA tournament.

Game information and download links are here - http://vk.com/h3hota.

Game version: HotA 1.3.8 + HDmode.

Template: chosen by lot from Jebus, Mini-Nostalgia, Diamond, 8mm6a, 6lm10a.

Castles: all games are played in the Wharf vs Wharf format; one player chooses the color, and the other player chooses the starting hero first.

Timer - standard for ХВ rules, but battle time is 2 minutes (with unfamiliar troops, more thinking is required during combat).
Jebus - 24+8:30+2
Diamond - 19+8+2
Mini-Nostalgia - 19+8+2
8mm6a - 21+8+2
6lm10a - 21+8+2

Roads - fast for Jebus and medium for other templates.

Restarts - 3 days in total (+objective restarts due to blocks, bugs, or encounters).

Red-rush is allowed.

Other rules correspond to the HotA show tournament rules

Tournament format - Swiss system with elimination after 2 losses. Each round is played as a best-of-one (bo1). Time per round - 3 weeks.

Rules may be clarified later, as some nuances might have been missed the first time. In case of a disputed or doubtful situation, it is recommended to contact the judge immediately. That is, do not abuse discovered bugs.

Players have the right to agree on any changes in the rules except for the game version.

Each participant must pass qualification - play at least one full online game in HotA. This is to ensure that you have installed the software correctly and understand the game rules. Players who participated in the show tournament or have game reports for HotA in the season are exempt from qualification.

Register here, specifying ICQ/Skype. Start as soon as a quorum is reached.

List of participants with current permanent rating (participants highlighted in bold have passed qualification):

1. Maretti (1880)
2. Сатир (1787)
3. The_ (1744)
4. Aiwe (1720)
5. Mizrael (1700)
6. Javdet (1699)
7. twaryna (1698)
8. KobRa_RR (1674)
9. Redwhait HP (1657)
10. WiZarDX_576(1631)
11. Amiloo (1627)
12. shpilenger (1610)
13. FireToSky (1586)
14. =Lizard= (1557)
15. Pupa (1541)
16. MuLLIyTa (1541)
17. mals (1516)
18. Huanito (1511)
19. Amster (1503)
20. Dave_HUN (1496)
21. YaR (1495)
22. Stomper (1487)
23. liverpool (1486)
24. Piterius (1485)
25. MelSpirit (1472)
26. nik312 (1438)
27. Little (1408)
28. WishmasteR (1386)
29. wariator (1352)
30. R@sIM (1310)
31. korvet (N/R)
32. MikeM (N/R)
33. skd (N/R)
34. Blitz (N/R)
35. BlackFatal (N/R)
36. guboshlyep (N/R)
37. Kalcefar (N/R)
38. Bison (N/R)
39. Jubi-juby (N/R)
40. TwinkieThecake (N/R)
41. Dr.Ftor (N/R)
42. Mukti (N/R)
43. Убитый (N/R)
44. DreadKn1ght (N/R)
45. Gee (N/R)
46. Deferatto (N/R)
47. Be3y4uu (N/R)
48. Arka (N/R)
49. Loinz (N/R)
50. silenthill (N/R)
51. Dandy (N/R)
52. Intofire (N/R)
53. LorD ExE (N/R)
54. Gi5d (N/R)
55. Bikeman56 (N/R)
56. _XS!_ (N/R)
57. Ашот-ШИК (N/R)
58. Vladimir_Ospa (N/R)
59. Docent Picolan (N/R)
60. hippox89 (N/R)
61. flate (N/R)
---------
62. Pit for LM (1847)
63. aka.Ward3n (1376)
64. Sky21044 (N/R)
65. wowa (1695)
66. RozenKran (1536)
67. Toganash (1733)
68. Simba (N/R)
69. horror145 (N/R)
70. ...

UPDATE

Regarding the tournament start dates - 3 weeks are given for registration and qualification, meaning the draw for the 1st round will be on 24.04.2015

Players may independently agree on tournament games ahead of the bracket. For this, players must have an equal number of wins/losses. The fact of agreement should be reported to me before the start of the game via a forum post or ICQ message. Independent games that were not reported before the draw of the corresponding round are considered null and void.

Anyone who wants to start already can find an opponent for the 1st round themselves and play against them. Early games may be counted as qualification if bo3 (best-of-3) is played.

UPDATE

Draw for the 1st round:

Pupa (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def KobRa_RR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Jebus Cross 117
shpilenger (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Dessa) def R@siM(Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Mini-Nostalgia 141
FireToSky (Blue, Random, Fortress, Stig, Das) def =Lizard= (Red, Random, Fortress, Korbak, Tazar) 8mm6a 122
redwhait (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Craig Heck) def Mizrael (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Jeremy) 6lm10а 232
Jubi-Juby (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def wariator (Red, Wharf, Miriam, Miriam) Jebus Cross 127 1:0 (bo3)
Jubi-Juby (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Korkes) def wariator (Blue, Wharf, Miriam, Miriam) 8mm6a 232 2:0 (bo3)
twaryna (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Tiraxor) def Amiloo (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 227
YaR (Blue, Rampart, Kyri, Kyri) def mals (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 6lm10a 211
nik312 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def MuLLIyTa (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Diamond 124
DreadKn1ght (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def BlackFatal (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 6lm10a 121
Dandy (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def flate (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) MiniNostalgia 123
Gi5d (Red, Wharf, Lina, Kyri) def Bikeman56 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Jebus Cross 222
The_ (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Gunnar) def Сатир (Red, Wharf, Miriam, Arlak) 6lm10a 212
LorD ExE (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Intofire (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 6lm10a 224
Pit for LM (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def RozenKran (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Jebus Cross 127
MikeM (Blue, Fortress, Tazar, Gunnar) def Stomper (Red, Stronghold, Craig Heg, Craig Heg) Jebus Cross 126
Deferatto (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Gee (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) 8mm6a 225
Sky21044 (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Kyri) def aka.Ward3n (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Mini-Nostalgia 133
skd (Red, Wharf, Lina, Illor) def _XS!_ (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Korkes) 8mm6a 145
Huanito (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Kyri) def MelSpirit (Red, Wharf, Illor, Jeremy) 6lm10a 147
wowa (Red, Wharf, Illor, Illor) def Toganash (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Kyri) 8mm6a 214
Docent Picolan (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Gunnar) def hippox89 (Red, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) Mini-Nostalgia 223
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Gundula) def Javdet (Blue, Wharf, Miriam, Miriam) 6lm10a 224
Blitz (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Simba (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Korkes) 8mm6a 132

WiZarDX_576 def Little
Dr.Ftor def korvet
Piterius def liverpool
Mukti def Kalcefar

Arka - Loinz, mutual tech-loss

The player listed first in the pair chooses the color. The player listed second in the pair chooses the starting hero first. The template draw is started by the player listed first in the pair.

Registration and qualification continue until the end of the 1st round. There will be no further official draws; all players who register and qualify after the tournament starts must find opponents for the 1st round independently.

Deadline for the 1st round - 15.05.2015 (3 weeks)

Draw for the 2nd round:

Winners:
shpilenger (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Craig Heg) def The_ (Red, Wharf, Miriam, Miriam) Mini-Nostalgia 133
nik312 (Blue, Inferno, Calh, Calh) def Jubi-Juby (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Mini-Nostalgia 214
Dandy (Red, Wharf, Korkes, Tazar) def Gi5d (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Jebus Cross 143
Redwhait HP (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def Deferatto (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Mini-Nostalgia 221
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Kyri) def Pit for LM (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Mini-Nostalgia 211
YaR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def skd (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) Jebus Cross 125
DreadKn1ght (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Sky21044 (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 6lm10a 317
wowa (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def twaryna (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 6lm10a 213
WiZarDX_576 (Red, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) def FireToSky (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Diamond 132
Huanito def Pupa
horror145 def Piterius
Blitz def Mukti - awarded by save
Docent Picolan (Red, Inferno, Calh, Calh) def Dr.Ftor (Blue, Fortress, Tazar, Tazar) 8mm6a 234
MikeM (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def LorD ExE (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 8mm6a 211

Substitutions:
Pupa -> Jubi-Juby#2
Piterius -> Gi5d#2

Losers:
Mizrael (Blue, Random, Fortress, Vistan, Vistan) def Stomper (Red, Random, Dungeon, Alamar, Craig Heg) 6lm10a 135
RozenKran (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def wariator (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) Jebus Cross 127
aka.Ward3n (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def Gee (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 6lm10a 114
hippox89 (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Bikeman56 (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 146
KobRa_RR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def R@sIM (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 137
BlackFatal (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def flate (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Miriam) 8mm6a 134
=Lizard= (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def Amiloo (Red, Inferno, Mariussa, Mariussa) 8mm6a 136
_XS!_ (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def Intofire (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 8mm6a 133
mals (Red, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def MelSpirit (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) 8mm6a 127

Toganash def MuLLIyTa

Substitution:
Kalcefar -> The_#2

Simba (Red, Conflux, Luna, Luna) def The_#2 (Blue, Rampart, Kyri, Kyri) Jebus Cross 121

Сатир vs Javdet - mutual tech-loss; Deferatto#2 enters as a substitute for the winner of this pair
horror145 vs liverpool - mutual tech-loss

Deadline for the 2nd round - 3 weeks, meaning until 05.06.2015

Draw for the 3rd round:

Winners:
nik312 (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Redwhait HP (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Moner) Mini-Nostalgia 247
YaR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def DreadKn1ght (Blue, Wharf, Illor, Illor) 6lm10a 141
Dandy (Red, Rampart, Kyri, Kyri) def MikeM (Blue, Castle, Caitlin, Tazar) Jebus Cross 125
WiZarDX_576 (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) def Huanito (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Jebus Cross 131
Docent Picolan (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Blitz (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 127
wowa (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Craig Heg) def shpilenger (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 6lm10a 136

Intermediate pair (winner vs loser):
Maretti def horror145

Losers:
Jubi-Juby (Red, Conflux, Luna, Crellion) def The_ (Blue, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) Jebus Cross 132
RozenKran (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Gi5d (Red, Wharf, Lina, Tazar) Mini-Nostalgia 211
KobRa_RR (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def Deferatto (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 8mm6a 233
=Lizard= (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Dragon) def aka.Ward3n (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Diamond 115
Pit for LM (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Craig Heg) def Mizrael (Red, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) Jebus Cross 125
skd (Red, Wharf, Lina, Lorelei) def BlackFatal (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 8mm6a 144
Simba (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Tiraxor) def Gi5d#2 (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Jebus Cross 146
_XS!_ (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def hippox89 (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Mini-Nostalgia 133
twaryna def FireToSky
Toganash (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def mals (Red, Rampart, Kyri, Kyri) 6lm10a 144
Jubi-Juby#2 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Moner) def Sky21044 (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 6lm10a 217
Deferatto#2 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def LorD ExE (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 8mm6a 214
Dr.Ftor def Mukti

Deadline - 3 weeks, meaning until 26.06.2015

Draw for the 4th round:

Players highlighted in italics play with a debuff - they grant their opponent the right to choose both the color and the starting hero.

Winners:
WiZarDX_576 (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def nik312 (Blue, Inferno, Calh, Calh) Mini-Nostalgia 147
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Gunnar) def wowa (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 135
YaR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Docent Picolan (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 6lm10a 131

Intermediate pair (winner vs loser):
Dandy (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Gunnar) def Huanito (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Diamond 142

Losers:
RozenKran (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Jubi-Juby (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Jebus Cross 135
=Lizard= (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Redwhait HP (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Diamond 133
Toganash (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def twaryna (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 6lm10a 214
Pit for LM (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Cassiopeia) def Jubi-Juby#2 (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Kyri) Mini-Nostalgia 125
MikeM (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Blitz (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Gunnar) 8mm6a 127
_XS!_ (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Dr.Ftor (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Craig Heg) 8mm6a 133
KobRa_RR (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) def DreadKn1ght (Blue, Wharf, Manfred, Manfred) 8mm6a 135

skd def shpilenger
Deferatto#2 def Simba

Deadline for the 4th round - until 24.07.2015

Draw for the 5th round:

Winners:
Dandy (Blue, Wharf, Korkes, Korkes) def YaR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Jebus Cross 124
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def WiZarDX_576 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 8mm6a 221

Losers:
=Lizard= (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Jeremy) def RozenKran (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Jebus Cross 125
nik312 (Blue, Necropolis, Claudius, Claudius) def Toganash (Red, Conflux, Luna, Dessa) 8mm6a 141
Deferatto#2 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def _XS!_ (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) 8mm6a 211
skd (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def KobRa_RR (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Diamond 134
Pit for LM (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def wowa (Blue, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Cassiopeia) Jebus Cross 127
MikeM (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) def Docent Picolan (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) Mini-Nostalgia 216

Deadline for the 5th round - until 14.08.2015

Draw for the 6th round:

Winners:
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Craig Heg) def Dandy (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 6lm10a 144

Losers:
YaR (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Deferatto#2 (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Illor) Mini-Nostalgia 213
Pit for LM (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Kyri) def =Lizard= (Red, Wharf, Cassiopeia, Mephala) Diamond 122
WiZarDX_576 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def skd (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Diamond 132
MikeM (Red, Castle, Valeska, Valeska) def nik312 (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 8mm6a 127

Deadline for the 6th round - until 04.09.2015

Draw for the 7th round:

Intermediate pair (winner vs loser):
Maretti (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Cassiopeia) def YaR (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 6lm10a 214

Losers:
WiZarDX_576 (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def Pit for LM (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) Diamond 127
MikeM (Red, Wharf, Annabelle, Korkes) def Dandy (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) 6lm10a 211

Deadline for the 7th round - until 25.09.2015

Draw for the 8th round:
YaR's bonus for winning the quiz is activated, and he remains in the tournament.

Intermediate pair (winner vs loser):
Maretti (Red, Wharf, Illor, Tazar) def MikeM (Blue, Wharf, Jeremy, Das) 6lm10a 136

Losers:
YaR (Red, Wharf, Jeremy, Jeremy) def WiZarDX_576 (Blue, Wharf, Annabelle, Annabelle) 8mm6a 137

Deadline for the 8th round - until 16.10.2015

Final:

Maretti vs YaR

To win the tournament, Maretti only needs to win once, while YaR must win twice.

UPDATE

Since the starting confusion has ended, we will play more orderly from the 2nd round onwards.

1) Players who do not meet the round deadline (regardless of whose fault), will play in the next round with a debuff - their opponent may choose both the color and the hero.

Exceptions are possible at the discretion of the organizer. For example, if players reported difficulties in advance (within one week from the start of the round).

Therefore, I recommend not waiting until the last day, but agreeing and starting to play immediately.

2) Private messages from the organizer should be answered within 3 days. The same applies to public messages with any requests. Lack of reaction is interpreted against the player.

For example, if in response to a private message "How is the round 2 game going?", one of the players replied (regardless of what), and the second remained silent, then in the absence of a result, a technical victory will be awarded to the first.

3) If a player withdraws from the tournament or is disqualified, their slot is passed in order of queue to players who have already been eliminated from the tournament. Priority is given to those who progressed further, and if they reached the same distance - to whoever played earlier.

Therefore, I recommend agreeing and playing subsequent rounds before their official start.

In reply to Wicc

The_

11 years ago

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Wicc

The logic was this - in SoD, Fortress has a situation where the starting army is weak, fights are carried by Waspworts, which can be built on day 1, and thanks to this, the breakthrough power evens out with other towns.

With 3 stacks at the start, most towns jump up, while Fortress only gets Flies for a head start. Not much. By the way, Tower has the same situation - it benefits little from 3 stacks, all the power is concentrated in the 1st stack. And Necropolis too.

Hence the logical desire to somehow boost the starting army. An HT version of the army came up for this - +5 Gnolls in the stack and 3-4 Flies instead of 2-4. Not much, of course, but it doesn't need much, and this version at least has been tested.

Okay, the logic is clear, other towns were boosted, let's boost Fortress too so it's fair - no questions there. Although I think the wording "only gets Flies" doesn't reflect reality; it would be more accurate to say guaranteed Flies appear! Need it be said that absolutely all neutrals have an incredible attraction to Flies, and with a certain amount of practice with the Fortress army, Flies pull off fights that are hard to imagine for any other tier 1 units. Well, as for the upgrade at 113-114 and the painless distribution to scout heroes (thanks to those guaranteed 6-8 Flies from the start), that goes without saying.
But again, let's say we chalk up this obvious buff to "other towns were boosted, it was like that in HT, well, carrying meat through the swamp is inconvenient, etc."

Kindergarten logic, excuse me ... the pies differ in weight, and by how much is unclear. I at least rely on HT experience, where Conflux has similar gameplay, while you're counting pluses and minuses in a column. Not serious.

I rely on my own experience; I see no point in comparing it with yours, and that's not the point. In SoD, 8 air elementals from two heroes is a good, above average start. In HotA, 12 air elementals, well, it's okay, could have been more, oh yes, you can also buy them, oh yes, there's always a guaranteed ideal main with a really cool specialty. I'll keep quiet about Sprites, because it's unclear how interesting that upgrade is (I have almost no experience here), but something tells me this is clearly not a difference in weight to the lesser side.

And now I'll repeat a couple of questions:
following your statements, Dungeon wasn't nerfed, it's being held in place. The question is - were Rampart and Conflux, with guaranteed three stacks and 2 levels (especially critical for Conflux, more than for anyone else), really that much weaker than Dungeon in SoD that such a fix to Dungeon was needed? That is, they don't need to be held in place, they have a five-year plan in 3 years? As for Necropolis, Fortress, forget them.
Question - you wrote +20 is too much, can I ask what the criterion for evaluating too much or too little is based on? Oh yes... in HT it was 20-25, nobody complained, they complained when it was 15-25. I proposed another option, agreed +20 Troglodytes is a lot, +12 from the start is too much? Why not at least try this option, when it's obvious that other towns are moving forward, while Dungeon is "being held in place".

No, seriously, you're claiming that Dungeon has now become weaker than, for example, Castle or Fortress (on 8mm6a)? IMO you're caught up in emotions

I seriously claim that Dungeon has become weaker relative to the SoD version. Any dialogue involves emotions, I'm not a robot. But I haven't gotten carried away and don't plan to in the future.

P.S. do you really think my opinion is caused by some inner fire? Or do you think that all opponents give me Dungeon and I only have the option to play this town and no other? No, it's just that it so happens that I have personal preferences and thanks to them, I have a really large amount of experience with this town in SoD. In HotA it's small, but those 50+/- plays on 111 were enough for me to understand that Dungeon was cut. I repeat, if this is party policy, I can only throw up my hands - but the hope for a constructive dialogue between the developers and the community remains.

In reply to =Lizard=

Wicc

11 years ago

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=Lizard=

Castle is brilliant largely due to the diversity of heroes. My personal starting preferences are as follows:

Jebus Cross - Cassiopeia/Corkes
Diamond - Jeremy/Corkes
8mm6a, 6lm10a - I take Cassiopeia myself, but I fully allow Miriam. Yes, here it's not even about the lategame, but rather the pivotal moments like 126-132 (when every tile of vision during contact with the opponent is worth its weight in gold) she is very strong
8xm8a (and any poor template) - Lina

p.s. On mm6, if the opponent takes Cassiopeia, I also take Lina to balance the tempo with the economy.

p.p.s. Also an excellent hero is Illor. I don't take him as a starter (although sometimes it's a good option), but I gladly switch to him if I start with Lina.

Yep, that's about what I was hoping to get.

There are 3 starters - Cassie, Jeremy, Anabel, and there are 3 swap-in heroes - Corkes, Miriam, Illor. In certain situations, you can start directly with a "swap-in" hero (for example, Corkes on Jebus, not sure about Miriam, I'm skeptical), but there's a risk of not making it out of the early game. I hadn't considered Lina, since I've never played 8xm8, maybe there is some merit to her.

Added 43 minutes later

I repeat, if this is the party policy

The party policy is - we want to balance the power of the towns. Not necessarily to perfect balance, but so that you can normally play any town against any other, maybe with a slight offset (<2000).

The second point of the party policy is - fewer lines in the changelog. To avoid what happened in WT with 100500 minor changes that barely affect anything. This is especially true for standard SoD functionality. If a change isn't necessary, it's better not to make it. For example, the prices for monks-birds-bird dwellings in SoD are clearly too low, so they were raised without much hesitation, since a rollback is unlikely.

The third point of the party policy is - less flip-flopping, introducing and reverting various features, raising and lowering numbers. The strategy here is - first, we introduce all the conceptual, balance-forming features at once, then we test them in tournaments, and based on the results, we slightly adjust numbers up or down (prices, starting quantities). Again, the requirements for standard functionality are much stricter.

Therefore, I'm not claiming that Necro-Conflux will remain unchanged, but we need to determine exactly - which numbers to adjust, where to adjust them, and by how much. For example, the starting quantity of air elementals is also not a constant, but the correct numbers are not obvious here, so we'll wait.

So you're not speaking into a void; all opinions are collected and considered.

Although I think the phrase "only flies appear" doesn't reflect reality; it would be more accurate to say guaranteed flies appear! Is it even worth mentioning that absolutely all neutrals have an incredible attraction to flies, and with a certain amount of experience with the Fortress army, the flies pull out battles that are hard to imagine for any other tier-1 creature.

Well, agree, towns that start with specialists for levels 1-3 benefit much more from having 3 stacks, because it increases the main strike stack, which is still more important than the chaff or flankers.

Question - surely Rampart and Conflux, with guaranteed three stacks and level 2 (especially critical for Conflux, more than any other),

I suggested cutting Rampart's starting army more heavily, but there were many voices against it, so it ended up as it is now. I agree that Rampart gained more from the 3 stacks than Dungeon.

Conflux was released with the comment "needs testing in practice", because predicting the results of changing the game model in your head is difficult. Therefore, everything that didn't require obvious intervention remained as in SoD. Including the starting stacks.

The same applies to Necropolis.

do you really think my opinion is caused by some inner fire?

Through text, emotions are quite visible. This is a case where after stating an opinion, you need to wait, cool down, and then think about the situation again. Categorical opinions are generally rarely correct; the truth is usually somewhere in between.

Try to look at the situation through the eyes of the developers, taking into account the 3 points of the party policy, then all the changes will become quite logical.

In reply to Wicc

Derbent

11 years ago

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It was quite interesting to read. Could anyone provide links to videos on getting max cons at 121?
I started playing Heroes a very long time ago, but haven't played in about the last 10 years, something like that.
2 months ago I found this game that I remembered so well, and it turned out to be HotA. I played against computers, completed a quite interesting campaign, thanks to whoever came up with it)
So, to get to the point, as someone who could be called a newbie in your community, I'll say this: the debate about SoD and HotA is simply a matter of habit. Yes, precisely habit; most of us get used to something, and even when something new appears that is similar to the old, it's hard to let go of the old thing itself. I have plenty of examples which I see no point in even listing.
I don't know why the devs made HotA, what they get out of it, I don't know any of them, and I'm not involved in any connections. I'm only saying this because I consider HotA far more appealing than SoD. I've played about 50 games in HotA and a couple of dozen in SoD—the difference is like night and day.
In SoD everything comes down to one thing: how many skeletons and ducks you have. There are many weak towns, a ton of useless secondary skills for heroes. In HotA, things are different; the balance is clearly visible, although they should add rules, otherwise there are occasional mishaps. Other than that, everything is better, more interesting, and more balanced. In principle, you can play any town, though Fortress seems weak to me; I don't know about Conflux.
To a player who thinks that 20-30 Troglodytes at the start is too few, I would suggest considering that in HotA, it's more often the hero that determines success, not the town. IMO, in Dungeon, the only start in HotA is Gunnar, no miners or lor.
In any case, choosing SoD or HotA is up to everyone, so all this was written without any intent to advertise :) Good starts to everyone:cool:

In reply to Derbent

aka.Ward3n

11 years ago

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Timur, no offense, but all your arguments boil down to the fact that the Dungeon should be stronger than the other castles, as it was in the original game. HotA was not made to raise or lower any of the castles, but to balance them, as far as I understand. P.S. In my opinion, what really needs to be fixed is to remove the neutral zones or remove/significantly increase the value of the Pandorians with peasants. Proof - report against Gee.

In reply to aka.Ward3n

Blitz

11 years ago

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aka.Ward3n

Timur, no offense, but all your arguments boil down to the fact that the Dungeon should be stronger than the other castles, as it was in SoD.
As far as I understand, HotA wasn't made to raise or lower any of the castles, but to balance them.

P.S. In my opinion, what really needs to be fixed is to remove neutral zones or remove/significantly increase the value of Pandorians with peasants. Proof - report against Gee

or remove the skeleton converter from the map :p

In reply to Blitz

=Lizard=

11 years ago

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Back then, I suggested implementing a system where skeletons in the Transformer would be created based on the "demoning" principle: i.e., units with 5 HP or less would be reduced proportionally. For example: from 300 peasants, you'd get 300/6 = 50 skeletons, from 60 gremlins, you'd get 240/6 = 40 skeletons, and so on. And there's no need to change any values.

In reply to =Lizard=

Wicc

11 years ago

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For those who are not following the discussions, I remind you that during the 2nd round, there is a “Guess the Player” contest – /topic/at/817427/

Currently, we have received answers from 7 participants, and the leader has 4 correct answers.

A small hint regarding the general principle of solving association puzzles: the connection “from question to answer” is not as important as the connection “from answer to question.” That is, looking at the supposed answer, one should think about whether the host could have asked exactly this question based on that answer?

For example, the host’s question is “Call a girl.” We look at the list of participants and see the nickname RedGirl. The connection “girl-girl” is obvious, but how “Call” and “Red” are connected is completely unclear. It is logical to assume that for “RedGirl,” the host would have come up with something like “Melisandre,” “Indian Girl,” or “Moon,” or something similar.

Therefore, it makes sense to see if there is anything more suitable? We look at the list of participants again and see the nickname kalababa, which sounds like “call a baba,” and we understand that this was definitely what was meant.

In reply to Wicc

KobRa_RR

11 years ago

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Wicc

For those who don't follow the discussions, I remind you that during the 2nd round, there is a "Guess the Player" contest – /topic/at/817427/

Currently, we have received answers from 7 participants, and the leader has 4 correct answers.

A small hint regarding the general principle of solving association puzzles: the connection "from question to answer" is not as important as the connection "from answer to question." That is, looking at the supposed answer, one should think – could the host ask exactly this question based on such an answer?

For example, the host asks, "Call a girl." We look at the list of participants and see the nickname RedGirl. The connection "girl-girl" is obvious, but how are "Call" and "Red" connected – it’s completely unclear. It is logical to assume that for "RedGirl," the host would come up with something like "Melisandra" or "Indian Girl" or "Luna" or something similar.

Therefore, it makes sense to see if there is anything more suitable? We look at the list of participants again and see the nickname kalababa, which sounds like "call a baba," and we understand that this was definitely what was meant.

RedGirl is generally in a different league))))) she's Redwait's girlfriend

In reply to KobRa_RR

Wicc

11 years ago

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Since Kalcefar has not responded to messages from the host or his opponents in rounds 1 and 2 for quite some time, and not just in this tournament, I don't see the point in waiting any longer and will proceed with the replacement:

Kalcefar -> The_

Result of the first-round match:
Mukti def Kalcefar

Second-round match pairing:
Simba - The_

In this tournament, during the draw, I try to separate newcomers from experienced players, but since that's impossible here, Simba will receive a bonus in the match against The_ – the ability to choose a template (from those declared for the tournament), color, and choose the starting hero first.

In reply to Wicc

=Lizard=

11 years ago

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Round 2, losers' bracket.

Misha didn't want to play as the dock, so I suggested he take any red Castle against blue Cassiopeia. Everyone reset and played out a layout that was excellent for me. 111 - firebird. 121-123 - 4 cons for 9 angels. 124 - box for the entire 5th level. 125 - Dragon Utopia with КЗ. Then I systematically pinned the opponent into a corner. At 136, Misha attacked on his own. He had a serious advantage in magic and mana, but I had a much larger advantage in power. I also had +3 morale and +2 luck, and it worked perfectly. I managed to wipe out all of the opponent's army in 2 rounds, without giving him time to start summons or anything else. Thanks for the game!

=Lizard=

Faction Причал / Cove

Start Hero Касмера / Casmetra

Main Hero Касмера / Casmetra

Победа / Def

Amiloo

Faction Инферно / Inferno

Start Hero Мариусса / Marius

Main Hero Мариусса / Marius

Map Template: 8mm6a
Game Length: 136 days
Game Date: 5/28/2015
Reported: 5/28/2015 5:49 PM

=Lizard= 1712 → 1725 +13 ↑

Amiloo 1659 → 1646 -13 ↓

Rated Sep 28, 2022

Accepted by opponent on 5/29/2015 10:19 AM

In reply to Wicc

RozenKran

11 years ago

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Thank you for playing!

RozenKran

Faction Причал / Cove

Start Hero Анабель / Anabel

Main Hero Анабель / Anabel

Победа / Def

Jubi-Juby

Faction Причал / Cove

Start Hero Касмера / Casmetra

Main Hero Касмера / Casmetra

Map Template: Jebus Cross
Game Length: 135 days
Game Date: 5/28/2015
Reported: 5/28/2015 7:38 PM

RozenKran 1599 → 1613 +14 ↑

Jubi-Juby 1573 → 1559 -14 ↓

Rated Sep 28, 2022

Accepted by opponent on 5/28/2015 8:45 PM

In reply to RozenKran

FireToSky

11 years ago

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The Wizard hasn't been online for 10 days.

In reply to RozenKran

Jubi-Juby

11 years ago

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RozenKran

Thank you for the game!

I entered the center one day later than my opponent because I was playing as blue, so it was like two days later. There was no point in following the opponent along the only road, so I went through the sand, but I didn't find anything useful there and turned back... By that time, my opponent already had a larger army and better stats. I tried to find some luck at the neighboring tower spawn, but the opponent, with full control, caught and killed me:( GG! Thank you for the game!
As it became clear from the saves, my opponent got a log on the second level, had a lot of boxes at the spawn, and also got a Knight, taken in the first week. Plus, he had a nice Guardian Angel, unlike my 18 gold for bone dragons:( In any case, I have to give credit to my opponent, he implemented his plan well!
I enjoyed the tournament, and I don't want to leave! Thank you to the developers for HotA! It turned out to be a great game! Also, thank you to the organizers for the tournament!

In reply to Jubi-Juby

=Lizard=

11 years ago

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I will play the 3rd round in the losers' bracket. You can choose any template, castle, and color.

In reply to aka.Ward3n

The_

11 years ago

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aka.Ward3n

Timur, no offense meant, but all your arguments boil down to the Dungeon needing to be stronger than the other towns like it was in SOD.

No offense taken, especially since for me two things are obvious:
- you either haven't read all the arguments and comparisons with other towns in HotA that I made in my posts
- or you consider the Dungeon an overpowered imba in SOD, although the statistics decidedly disagree with that.

HotA was made not to buff or nerf any town, but to balance them, as far as I understand

again, I can't judge how much you've played HotA, but at this stage the nerf of the Dungeon and the buff of all other towns is quite obvious — a simple example is Conflux and Rampart, where three stacks arrive just like for the Dungeon, yet the starting army size remained unchanged from SOD.

Thankfully, at least in Vick's latest post, he confirms these circumstances and refers to "let's test it," although it would seem there's nothing to test here, but that's just my IMO.

Why can't we test 23-33 (25-35) Troglodytes in a stack? If it's imba, it can be fixed later. Of course, I understand that the basis for such stacks became the WT (I've started to love it even more), but maybe it's worth trying something else?