"Newcomer-2014. Summer" — Tournament History online

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Overview Participants Reports

Announcement

Roger DAltavilla

12 years ago

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tournament
"Новичок-2014. Summer"

Greetings to all fans of Heroes of Might and Magic 3, future participants, and supporters of the traditional "Новичок" tournament. And even if you are not a fan of Heroes :eek: , I still welcome you and invite you to the new season. I hope it will bring great games and discoveries of new players.
This is our traditional, already eleventh tournament for Новичок.
We do not have a precise and strict definition of who a "новичок" is. This tournament is for those
- who only recently realized that you can play the favorite old game Heroes online,
- who only recently found out that they are not the only ones who can easily beat computers and that things are not so simple with a real person,
- who recently started playing with more than one or two heroes and building chains...
We do not invite fathers and grandfathers, we do not want to see clones, and would a medal obtained in such a dubious way even have value for a strong player?
The main goal of the tournament is to get to know each other and gain experience in communication and gameplay.

Winners of past tournaments:
"Новичок-2014. Winter" - Aiwe
"Новичок-2013. Summer" - The_
"Новичок-2013. Winter" - высокий
"Новичок-2012. Summer" - twaryna
"Новичок-2012. Winter" - 7z
"Новичок-2011. Summer" - Sky Pioneer
"Новичок-2011. Winter" - Sevensan
"Новичок-2010. Summer" - тенью бездомной
"Новичок-2010. Winter" - Сатир
"Новичок-2009. Summer" - Erdem

Participant Requirements:
1. registration on the HW forum between June 1 2013 and June 6 2014;
2. total experience playing HoMM3 online - no more than 1 year; long breaks in play are discussed individually;
3. absence of strong results in tournaments on HW and other resources (specifically, 1-3 places in previous "Новичок" tournaments or any other tournament, reaching the final stages of major tournaments) - subject to the organizers' opinion;
4. participation prior to this tournament in no more than one "Новичок" tournament;
5. absence of forfeits or withdrawals in other tournaments;
6. availability of time and ability to play 1 game per week (consider the time zone) - priority playing times are considered 19-24 MSK on weekdays and 12-24 MSK on weekends;
7. at least 5 games on the HW forum (can be played before the participant list is approved) with different opponents and detailed reports - organizers need to ensure that you can technically play online and have an understanding of the rules of play on HeroesWorld. Tournament organizers Roger DAltavilla (IСQ 624681987), Iamsamstan (IСQ 435191039) can play with you if you cannot find an opponent;
8. players wishing to participate in the tournament agree to provide any additional information requested by the tournament judges;
9. players agree to the regulations and rules of the tournament;
10. players are required to closely follow all announcements from organizers in the tournament thread.

Organizers reserve the right to deny registration to any player without a public explanation of reasons.
Players who have an earlier or later registration on the forum but wish to play in the tournament may submit an application, which will be considered on an individual basis.

Submit applications in this thread. There is a Detailed instruction with pictures FAQ17 on the forum explaining how to do this.
You need to do the following:
1. Check if your ICQ number is entered in your profile; add it if it is missing.
If it is in your profile, a small green daisy - the ICQ symbol - is visible under the avatar. If not, follow the algorithm.
2. Leave an application in this thread. To do this, click the Sign up for tournament button located at the beginning of this thread and at the top of each page.
3. In the application, specify convenient times (days and hours) for playing and your time zone.
4. 2-3 days before the draw, you must contact the lead Roger DAltavilla (IСQ 624681987) to confirm participation. Players who disappear from the forum (no user activity for a week) will not be admitted to the draw.

Organizational Matters.
1. Leads - Roger DAltavilla (IСQ 624681987), Iamsamstan (IСQ 435191039). Judge - Pit for LM (ICQ 471401475).
2. The tournament is held according to the Rules of organization, conduct and participation in HOMM3 online tournaments.
3. Organizers will make changes to the rules and regulations during the tournament if necessary.
4. For each played game, participants must submit a detailed report and detailed confirmation in this thread. Only then is the game counted. All tournament reports must be written using the automatic report writing system: Detailed instruction with pictures FAQ18.
- To create a report, click the New report button located at the top of each page of the thread and fill in all necessary fields according to the template. After that, write your detailed comments on the game.
- To confirm a report, the second player must find the game report, click the Confirm report button and also write a detailed report.
- It is considered good tone to thank the opponent for the game.
5. All tournament games go into the HoMM3 HW Player Rating.
6. Technical results are assigned for games not played within the established timeframe.
7. Saves and password files for all games must be kept until the end of the tournament and presented upon first request by the leads, judges, or any member of the AC. Forgetting or losing a game password may serve as grounds for assigning a technical defeat in the game.
8. Disputed points, if any arise, are requested to be discussed off-forum. For resolution, you must contact the lead or judge in ICQ and provide daily saves, ICQ logs, and other necessary information.
The same's decision is based primarily on tournament rules. If a situation is not regulated by the rules, judges are guided by basic logic and gaming ethics.
9. The tournament winner will be awarded the "Winner of Tournament 'Новичок'" medal under their avatar:

Regulations.
To be determined later, depending on the number of registered participants. We expect a traditional scheme: group stage + team tournament + play-offs.
So, the number of participants has been determined. Clarifying the regulations:
Stage 1. 24 participants are divided into 4 groups of 6 people. A round-robin tournament is held in each group, where everyone plays everyone else once. 1 point is given for a win, 0.5 points for a draw, and zero for a loss. The 4 people with the best results advance from the group to the next stage. Result criteria by order of importance: 1) points earned, 2) Berger coefficient, 3) result of head-to-head meeting. If these criteria are insufficient, players will be offered a system of tie-breaker games. If that also fails, democratic judicial discretion will be applied.
Stage 2. Tournament of novices against veterans. NP vs LM More details in post №3
Stage 3. Play-off. Starts on August 11 2014. Conducted via an Olympic system with elimination after the second lost match. Each match in the upper bracket is played until two wins, and in the lower bracket until one win. Time limit for 1 game - 1 week. (The loser in the upper bracket moves to the lower bracket and continues playing there. The loser in the lower bracket is eliminated from the competition.)
For templates in the first game, the player listed first in the pair chooses first; their opponent chooses castles first. In the second game, you switch places. For the third game, you may toss a coin or ask the organizer.

Dates.
Registration - June 7 2014 - June 30 2014.
Approval of participant list - July 1-4 2014.
Group stage draw and tournament start - July 5 2014.
Time limit for one game - 1 week.

Rules.
1. Game version. The tournament is held on game version SoD 3.2(4.0) + HD mod + by mutual consent HW_rulez (for correct operation, the patch must be installed for both players).
2. The tournament is conducted according to the rules of online games in Heroes 3.
3. Restarts total 3 days ( 111+111+111 or 111+112 or 113).
4. In the initial stage of the tournament, games are played on template 2sm4d(3). In the final part of the tournament, the template is chosen by drawing from a list of 5 templates: 2sm4d(3), jebus Cross, Panic, 8mm6a (version without one-way paths), mini nostalgia.

In reply to skd

Sloth_D

11 years ago

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skd

The opponent spent 113 and I could choose the setup. I didn't delay and after one restart, the game started.
In the tavern, I immediately got Valya with 3 stacks, on the respawn point, there was a hidden unit of horses, and the scouting unit revealed boots with +600 on the respawn point of the companion-necromancer. On turn 113, I killed the necromancer, and on turn 115, I cleared the dungeon. By the end of the week, I took the hidden unit of horses and placed a portal.
At the beginning of the second week, I had 13 champions. I went to the treasure room from the companion's dungeon, and there were 10-19 green dragons (I checked, it was a Grand Shrine) and wings. With the wings in the same treasure room, I took the Utopia (3), lost 2 horses, and received a Knight's Shield, Gladius, and boots + a cloak for resistance.
After that, I placed archers at the beginning of the third week and went to the underground to the last companion, and from him, with the wings, I went to the central treasure room, which the opponent had already cleared. I took 4 Hives and saw him circling near my Guardian on the 136th level, below the elevator. I took the Prison and managed to break into the main area and bring back the meat, but I was 300 movement points short to cover the area, so I pushed his Luna away. He didn't have a teleport and there was no nearby unit to transport the meat, so he took a risk and went into the Utopia with archers, but didn't receive Chain Lightning. In my turn, I also got a Golden Bow in the treasure room and shackles, and on turn 137, I attacked. I had more might, a Knight's Shield + shackles, and the opponent surrendered.
Thank you for the game.

Was
Thank you

In reply to cbw

Roger DAltavilla

11 years ago

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cbw

In other words, the initial version was that the official rules had changed for all tournaments, but now it turns out that Roger simply had the idea to change the priority timer, and that's why we've been playing with the chess timer instead of the Sod's timer since 10.10.2014? Okay, fine. :smile52:
I would like to hear Roger's comments on this matter.

The main timer is the chess timer, and red-rush on XL+U size maps is allowed. This decision was made when one stage had already been completed, and new matches had not yet begun. Thus, the losses from this decision are minimal.
The decision to switch to the chess timer was made by the entire forum and therefore has the highest priority.
H2SO4 wrote a loss report in the lower bracket, which is equivalent to withdrawing from the tournament. The reason why he did so is no longer relevant; I will not allow such a report to be annulled. This is a sport, and moves cannot be taken back.
cbw and Falcone, play a match between yourselves, and may the force (and mana) be with you.

In reply to Roger DAltavilla

cbw

11 years ago

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Roger DAltavilla

The main timer is chess clock; red-rush on XL+U size templates is allowed. This decision was made when one stage had already been completed, and new matches hadn't started yet. Thus, the losses from this decision are minimal.
The decision to switch to a chess clock was made by the entire forum and therefore has the highest priority.

Apparently, I didn’t read the forum carefully enough, but I couldn’t find anything confirming the statement: "The decision to switch to a chess clock was made by the entire forum and therefore has the highest priority."
Pete also wrote in the thread about the chess clock that the choice of timer remains with the organizers. It remains unclear what unanimous decision we are talking about.:confused:
It seems like I am writing in a different language or none of the organizers are reading, they just respond.

Roger DAltavilla

H2SO4 submitted a losing report in the lower bracket, which is equivalent to withdrawing from the tournament. The reason why he did so no longer matters; I will not allow such a report to be annulled. This is sport, and moves cannot be taken back.
cbw and Falcone, play a match between yourselves, and may the force (and mana) be with you.

Thank you to the organizers and participants of this tournament for an excellent event; it was very interesting and informative :smile13:
With that, I take my leave and wish good luck to the finalists! :smile14:
p/s/ I can’t play against Falcone without playing against H2SO4 first. I hope for your understanding.

In reply to cbw

skd

11 years ago

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If you both prefer the SoD timer, then why didn't you agree on it before the game?
Nothing stops you from playing with a SoD timer if there is an agreement.
For my part, I am ready to play with a SoD timer on smk and panic if the opponent has a categorically urgent need for it.

In reply to cbw

LuckyF

11 years ago

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cbw

Thank you to the organizers and participants of this tournament for the excellent event; it was very interesting and informative :smile13:
With that, I bid farewell and wish the finalists good luck! :smile14:
p/s/ I can't play against Falcone without playing against H2SO4. I hope you understand.

Everyone is so principled) Let's have everyone withdraw from the tournament:smile12: :smile04:

In reply to LuckyF

SP_SkyLine

11 years ago

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In my opinion, h2so4 was the main favorite in the semifinals, before the introduction of the chess timer. And 80% of the tournament had already been played on the SOD server, so it's not very clear why chess was made mandatory for the last 10 games? Now there's this vague impression of the ending, but that's just my IMHO, of course...
Anyway, thanks to Roger for the tournament, I'm sure he tried to do everything as well as possible for everyone.

In reply to SP_SkyLine

skd

11 years ago

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SP_SkyLine

In my opinion, h2so4 was the main favorite in the semi-finals stage, until the chess clock timer was introduced. And 80% of the tournament had already been played with the SOD timer; it's not very clear why the chess clock timer was made mandatory for the last 10 games? Now, there's this vague impression of the ending, but that's just my opinion, of course...
Anyway, thank you, Roger, for the tournament; I'm sure he tried to do everything as well as possible for everyone.

I decided to ask about the timer after losing in the semi-finals on the 8-player map because I made a lot of stupid mistakes due to the timer, which wouldn't happen with the chess clock timer.
Starting in September, I've been trying to play all games only with the chess clock timer, and in the two games with the SOD timer in tournaments during that time, the outcome was always sad: first, on the Mininost map, I lost in a 1v1 game as Rasim against Redrash.
And the second case was the game against h2so4 in the semi-finals, where I didn't have time to build anything on turn 112, etc. Not to mention that when you encounter your opponent, you just start moving heroes in a hurry within 8 minutes because there's only time to think during the turn, in the battle. For example, you attack 20-49 hobgoblins and spend 5 minutes in the battle thinking about what to do next. All the stories that people used to cope with the SOD timer are like saying that people used to drive Zhiguli cars just fine. But in my opinion, if there's a choice between a BMW and a Zhiguli, the choice is obvious. There are as many opinions as there are people.
P.S. If Roger had said that the SOD timer was the main one, I wouldn't have started such a discussion; there's an organizer, he decided, and the topic should be closed.

In reply to Roger DAltavilla

Falcone

11 years ago

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Regarding the timer, I agree with SP_SkyLine – I think it would be quite logical to allow newcomers to finish the tournament with the current timer, although I personally prefer the chess timer. However, I don't understand the reaction of cbw and H2SO4 – to spend so much time on group stage games and playoff matches, only to post losses and withdraw from the tournament due to a timer change...

In reply to Falcone

ДаУ

11 years ago

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The poll regarding the chess timer cannot be considered valid because there was no checkbox for the simultaneous timer. And agreeing on a timer is not such a big problem.

In reply to ДаУ

H2SO4

11 years ago

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if you read the rules before signing up for the tournament, there is such a point 3. The organizers will make changes to the rules and regulations during the tournament if necessary
they have this right, but only in emergencies:

Pit for LM

e) Changes to the rules and regulations after the start of the tournament (i.e., when the first game has been played) are permitted only in extreme cases;tournament was under threat of failure and chess timer was the only way to save him?

if necessary...
since the internal survey among newcomers regarding chess timer didn't took place, I looked up who of us participated in the poll.
may be inaccurate, but better than nothing :
- before the start of the tournament, 24 participants - 50% could (perhaps wanted) play with a chess timer
- at the time when the change occurred, 8 participants: 37% could (perhaps wanted) to play with the chess timer

The potential need for a chess timer is continuously decreasing.

If majority of players who have nothing to do with this tournament vote some changes it doesn't mean that they reflects novice's needs.

What was the real necessity of introducing chess timer specially for this tournament?

Seems like only this 2 cases allows by rules to make any changes: the necessity and the criticality of the situation.
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changes regarding the chess timer were made after a vote was held on it and it was approved for all tournaments on the portal

The decision to switch to a chess timer was made by the entire forum and therefore has the highest priority.
in our case, this is one of the most complicated way of saying : Everyone ran — and I ran

I found interesting that two players by mutual agreement can change the HW rules as they want , except fair play, and play by them regardless if meantime initial HW rules will change or not. In case of controversial issues the judge will make a decision first of all based on mutual agreement which has higher priority than HW rules.

Same idea but for tournaments:
Every tourney shall adopt HW rules as basic set of rules but can adapt them to their own needs or leave them as is.
By accepting the tournament rules, participant basically makes an mutual agreement with all other participants. When all participants make this agreement and tournament starts, the rules of the tournament are no longer HW's rules or referee's rules ... they become mutual agreement of this group of players.

Imho, in case of controversial issues the judge should make a decision first of all based on our mutual agreement which has higher priority.

Or rules of the tournament cannot be considered a mutual agreement? If not, why?

forum decided...
I really don't get it , how someone outside of this tournament can make changes in my/our mutual agreement without my/our consent. :confused:
*I doubt also that good / professional players are very interested or had the intention to change something in the sandbox.

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The reason why he did so no longer matters,maybe not for this tourney, but in general it matters

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I will not allow such a report to be annulled. This is sport and moves are not taken back.
totally agree, I had no such intention.
being a participant, isn't ethical to contest any decision of the organizers /referee, even if disagree. Now, when I came out of the tournament, we can comfortably discuss

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I found this post from Roger as the main one, meaning preferred; that is, if two people argue about the timer, then the chess one is priority, but no one forbids you to play with a SoD timer if you wish.

No one forbids playing on a SoD timer by agreement. For my part, I'll say that I'm ready to play SoD timer on smk and panic if there is an absolutely acute need of the opponent.what this change of rules does ... only allows some of the participants do not keep their initial promises (is the way I feel :p )
But if someone would be so merciful and wants to keep its promises then the organisers do not mind. Indeed, some of them are so generous that they are ready keep at least part of their promises.
I guess, it's time to say thanks

*I don't blame anyone, since they followed the rules

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if you have a choice between a BMW and a Zhiguli, the choice is obvious
better to say, if made it possible to ...

We all agreed in this race ( ice, water, sharp turns etc) to use Zhiguli. Somehow, the organizers before the final round gave all of us BMWs to finish the race.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to drive the automatic transmission in extreme conditions.;)
I was ready to continue the race: my Zhiguli against other BMWs, but it is technically impossible...
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I'll try to anticipate some of most common arguments:

The tournament is played by HW rules. If the rules changed during the tournament, then the changes apply to all tournaments. The only exceptions are games already in progress.
I didn't found anything in the rules for now to confirm this...

*Regarding tournaments that consist of a series of games: many people seem to treat a tournament as a single game, this type of attitude falls under the category of metagaming...
If I have to skip all terminology and translate it to heroes game probably we will have following example( let's be based on current Novice tourney):
Tourney is nothing else than one Big Game which involves 24 ( can be N) participants.
Imagine a huge map with 24 starting locations (castles)
Tournament begins = Big Game begins.
Every round of tournament is considered 1 week of a Big Game.

If the rules cannot be changed during a game between 2 players the more so why somebody is allowed to do so during a game between 24 players ?

btw, how a tournament is treated by HW community?

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The tournament regulations provide a link to the rules, and accordingly, if the content of the link changes, then the tournament rules change as well.
What should I refer to if such a situation arises in the game? To the rule link or to what was previously said in words?Link, is rather a convenience not to copy / paste all the rules for each tournament.
Is not a secret that the judges use computers during the trial.
The judge also uses the link to find the law to a particular case.
Objectivity comes first, if the crime was committed before the changes in the law no one will use this latest update.
If is a tournament game, should be judged by the existing rules when the tournament began.

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I hope nobody feels offended, perhaps somewhere I was too harsh.
Thanks for reading, best regards :)

p.s. most of my statements are not nailed facts, just my personal opinion ... under the law "beginner is always right" (c) (Idk whose, but I liked it)

In reply to H2SO4

Roger DAltavilla

11 years ago

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To be honest, I didn't read it. 1) H2SO4 first writes 3 loss reports for game 111 and effectively withdraws from the tournament, and then starts explaining what he didn't like. Even if I agree with his arguments, I no longer have the opportunity to reinstate him in the tournament. 2) The decision to switch to a chess timer was made by the entire forum; there were 3 votes determining its parameters, and all future tournaments were planned to be held with a chess timer. The fact that there was no checkbox: "for a classic timer" is not an argument. No one prevented him from creating his own topic: **"Let's preserve the classic timer!"** with his own vote. 3) Blackmailing with withdrawal from the tournament and slamming the door doesn't work.

In reply to Roger DAltavilla

JustObserver

11 years ago

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If switching to a chess timer doesn't allow you to continue participating in the tournament, it means you're not playing this game correctly.

In reply to JustObserver

skd

11 years ago

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H2SO4

before the start of the tournament, 24 participants - 50% could (perhaps wanted) play with a chess timer
- at the time when the change occurred, 8 participants: 37% could (perhaps wanted) to play with the chess timer

The potential need for a chess timer is continuously decreasing.

This is assumption-based information.

H2SO4

If the majority of players who have nothing to do with this tournament vote for some changes, it doesn't mean that they reflect the needs of beginners.

I also participated in the vote; any registered player on the forum could. The chess timer didn't just appear out of nowhere; everyone knew back in July that it would be introduced in the fall, after the poll ended.

In reply to Roger DAltavilla

Sanin

11 years ago

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Roger DAltavilla

2) The decision to switch to a chess timer was made by the entire forum.

I don't remember there being a vote to choose between a SOD timer and a chess timer. The details of the chess timer were clarified, yes, but there was no vote on the actual choice, so strictly speaking, the change in rules was dictated solely by the will of the person conducting the polls, in which the SOD timer was excluded a priori. The entire forum did not directly participate in making this particular decision.

// but this is just formally, and in reality, of course, nothing prevented them from playing with a SOD timer //