Heroes 6 - Discussion — General

In reply to XEL

Registered: 7/16/2007

Posts: 32,012

#94 8/3/2008 6:28 PM UTC

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XEL;188573

Ah, if only there were a chance that Ubisoft would be interested in this option.

Honestly speaking - until I stumbled upon HeroesWorld, I never thought anything was wrong. But I stumbled upon it, learned about it, and it even feels somewhat disappointing and unfair :( Bring back the connection between Ashan and Enroth, Axeoth, and so on!

XEL;188573

A fairly common misconception. 3DO's bankruptcy is not related to any of their games.

I'm very glad that neither you nor I are susceptible to this misconception ;)

XEL;188573

In Heroes 4, the RPG element is very pronounced. On one hand, that's good, because Heroes is a spin-off of RPGs, but on the other hand, it's still a TBS spin-off.

IMHO, it's precisely the RPG nature of 4 that diversifies its gameplay so much. Again IMHO, both of these genres are very successfully intertwined in it :)

XEL;188573

And I :smile01:

Yes, I can't :(

P.S. Speaking of 4, by the way. I am 100% sure that many fans of 3 were expecting "something new and different" from HoMM 4. They got something new, and what then? In the very first minutes, they spat on it and dragged it through the mud. I sincerely believe that the HoMM 6 project will be more successful, while also bringing many new, interesting moments to the series :)

А, вот почему.

🏹🎪+⛓️♿=💕

Registered: 4/18/2007

Posts: 7,033

#95 8/3/2008 6:43 PM UTC

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The most important thing that developers should have when creating the 6th installment of the Heroes series is NOT focusing on mass appeal. They should have the freedom to create what they believe is right. Not everyone is ready to accept something new, but if they are afraid to show this new thing, then... well, nothing good will come of it. P.S. By the way, there is nothing new in the 5th game. It takes everything from the previous parts and develops it, which is good, of course, but it's a direction towards being more mainstream. P.P.S. I have a positive attitude towards the 5th game =D

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Драккошка

Registered: 7/1/2008

Posts: 238

#96 8/3/2008 6:51 PM UTC

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The sixth installment should be like this: 1) Gameplay should be half from the third game and half from the fourth game. But it should be a tactical game. 2) Graphics should be like in the fifth game (someone said that the graphics in the fifth game are cartoonish. Well, this person clearly hasn't played the fifth game or is also from the "third game lovers" family. Probably this person wants the graphics of the third game. Such an endeavor is only for the third part. No modern game should be like that). 3) More editors - for races, units, spells, abilities, maps. 4) Characters and plot. In the fifth and third games, the plot is more or less similar: a country of people is attacked by demons, necromancers, you need to gather allies, and so on. The plot should have some spark, for example, a super-energy explosion and mutations. Characters - in the fifth game, the only three best characters are Agrael-Railag, Markel, and Biara. There are no complaints here. 5) Races - about 15 - 5 evil, 5 good, 5 neutral. By magic, 5 magical, 5 physical, 5 average (like in "The Legend").

Пришёл,увидел,нафлудил.

Registered: 4/8/2007

Posts: 996

#97 8/3/2008 7:09 PM UTC

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Drakkoshka;188588

Honestly, until I stumbled upon HeroesWorld, I didn't think anything was wrong. But I found it, learned about it, and it even felt a bit upsetting and unfair :( Bring on the connection between Ashan and Enroth, Axeoth, and so on!

That would be nice. But the probability of Ubisoft taking this on is extremely low. Although, they did acknowledge a fan project continuing the original universe.

Drakkoshka;188588

I am very glad that neither you nor I are susceptible to this misconception ;)

So my mistake: I misunderstood the phrase I quoted ;)

Favorite of the Gods;188593

In the fifth and third games, the plot is more or less similar: demons attacked a human country, necromancers, you need to gather allies and blah blah blah.

The plot of the fifth Heroes is a simplified and lobotomized version of The Restoration of Erathia's plot. The parallels are more than obvious.

Favorite of the Gods;188593

Characters — in the fifth game, the only three best characters are Agrael-Raelag, Markal, and Biara. No complaints there.

The only best character in the fifth Heroes is Zehir.

In reply to Visiteur

Registered: 6/13/2007

Posts: 13,542

#98 8/3/2008 7:28 PM UTC

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Favorite of the Gods;188593

2) The graphics are like in the fifth game (someone said that the graphics in the fifth game are cartoonish. Well, this person clearly hasn't played the fifth game or is also one of the "third game lovers." Probably, this person wants the graphics of the third game. This is only suitable for the third part. No modern game should be like that.

I'm not a "third game lover," but I'm looking at the facts – the graphics in the fifth game are cartoonish and, not always appropriately, anime-like. But in Heroes, it should be more... gloomy.

4) Characters and plot. In the fifth and third games, the plot is more or less similar: demons and necromancers attacked the land of humans, you need to gather allies, and so on. The plot should have some spark, for example, a super-energy explosion and mutations.

Lol, that's quite a "spark." Besides, I've seen something about a super-explosion somewhere before...:rolleyes:

5) Races – about 15 – 5 evil, 5 good, 5 neutral. By magic: 5 magical, 5 power-based, 5 average (like in "The Legend of the Knight";)

In The Legend, there were only 6

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In reply to XEL

Registered: 7/16/2007

Posts: 32,012

#99 8/3/2008 7:32 PM UTC

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XEL;188594

It would be nice. But the probability that Ubisoft will take on this is extremely low. Although, they acknowledged a fan project to continue the original universe.

I really hope they do take it on. Otherwise, it's all over the place, a bit of a mess - one universe, then another...

XEL;188594

So, I made a mistake: I misunderstood the phrase I quoted.

I'll tear off the head of anyone who says that about Heroes 4 in my presence :D That was sarcasm. ;)

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А, вот почему.

🏹🎪+⛓️♿=💕

Registered: 7/10/2008

Posts: 11,947

#102 8/4/2008 1:03 AM UTC

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Indeed, why wouldn't the developers create something in the style of the fourth game? Personally, I would like to see and play it. But if it doesn't turn out very well, we can always wait for the seventh installment.

Registered: 11/8/2007

Posts: 3,559

#103 8/4/2008 1:06 AM UTC

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ZYbr

The most important thing that developers should keep in mind when creating the 6th installment is NOT to target the masses.

It would be really great, but as we know, the vast majority of players are so-called casual gamers. For them, it's important that the game is easy to learn, that the Walkthrough doesn't cause any particular difficulties, and so on. First and foremost, and as sad as it is, games are made for these people because any game is a commercial project with the goal of making huge profits. The more massive the project, the more profit. Plus, the desire to expand the audience, after all, the number of fans of the 3rd and 4th games is not enough (this applies to the 5th and will probably apply to the 6th).

Любимец Богов

The graphics are like in the fifth game.

Yeah, right... They'll make the graphics even worse in the future project. I repeat, games are commercial projects of large companies, not remakes by programmers.

Любимец Богов

someone said that the graphics in the fifth game are cartoonish. So, this person clearly hasn't played the fifth game or is also one of the "third game lovers." Probably, this person wants the graphics of the third game. This is only suitable for the third part. No modern game should be like that.

I don't have the habit of talking about what I haven't seen; it's a fact that the graphics in the game are cartoonish. Have you seen screenshots of the game Disciples III? There, the graphics are not cartoonish; they are quite dark. No, stealing the style would, of course, not be good, but something transitional between Disciples and the current 5th game would still be nice to see. As well as a harsh and dark plot. With CG-cutscenes :)

Любимец Богов

The plot should have some spark, for example, a super-explosion of energy and mutations.

He-he, can you elaborate? What will be the meaning of the game? To destroy armies of vampires? Or to try to gather as many units as possible to save them? (about the super-explosion)

Любимец Богов

5) Races - about 15 - 5 evil, 5 good, 5 neutral. In terms of magic, 5 magical, 5 power-based, 5 medium (like in "The Legend").

Are you kidding? They barely managed to balance 8, and even then, not perfectly. Experienced players are already making balance mods, etc. And with 15, it will be a nightmare. I don't know how it is at Ubisoft, but my opinion is that the 6th part will feature the Naga and the Free Cities of the East races, and it is quite possible that they will not appear immediately but as add-ons, similar to the 5th game. Or maybe in the original 6th part, then the plot will be centered around them...

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O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
Take away our pride.

G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal

Registered: 7/16/2007

Posts: 32,012

#104 8/4/2008 8:37 AM UTC

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In principle, the graphics in Heroes of Might and Magic 5 are bright, vibrant, and beautiful in their own way, but they feel somewhat unnaturally bright. The spirit of the series, the epic spirit that calls for great deeds, has been lost. While Heroes of Might and Magic 3 isn't my favorite installment, that spirit is felt in every bush, and I can't deny it. I would like Heroes of Might and Magic 6 to have the same atmosphere, with high-quality, fantasy 3D graphics. Regarding the races, I agree that balancing can be a challenge, but mods could add not just one, but two or even three races? This would significantly increase the game's variety. There could be as many races as desired, and balancing them wouldn't be too difficult, especially with millions of Heroes of Might and Magic fans worldwide. However, on the other hand, Heroes of Might and Magic 4 only had six races, but they were so well-made that a larger number would only have ruined it.

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А, вот почему.

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Registered: 11/19/2007

Posts: 1,660

#105 8/4/2008 9:39 AM UTC

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the graphics in the fifth Heroes game are "cartoonish," and that's a fact.
it's almost like the second game, but in 3D... and, of course, without sprite-based graphics.
but I can't call the third Heroes game an "incredibly dark and atmospheric installment" because it doesn't have that. yes, there's Necropolis and Fortress, but overall, the Heroes games create a feeling of a fairy tale, which is what they are.
a game that mixes all sorts of mythological creatures from different concepts, different peoples, and different eras simply doesn't suit a dark style. the variety of content also implies a "bright" graphic style, in some way or another.
and I, for example, would look askance at Heroes that are completely "out of place" and try to "borrow" the dark, gothic atmosphere of Disciples, even as a "transitional option." it would result in not their own, unique style, but simply an awkward plagiarism.
there are enough truly atmospheric games, and each should have its own niche, rather than trying to encompass everything. the Heroes games have... let's say, a little bit of atmosphere, because of the aforementioned variety.

having many factions is, of course, nice, but considering the trend of making them standard (flying unit, caster, ranged attacker, dragon), it's unlikely to lead to anything good. it will be possible to create many clones with abilities pulled out of thin air, such as an increase in creatures for making a payment, chaos magic +2500,000,000%, and so on.
this is not good.

in general, as I said, the game needs innovation to be truly interesting. otherwise, it will bring in a lot of money (and it should, given the brand), but in a few years, it will be remembered as one of the games that I used to play, and it will be deleted from the hard drive to make room for the fifth installment of The Elder Scrolls or the ninth chronicle of Lineage.

Первый, кто был забанен за Правду.

Registered: 4/8/2007

Posts: 996

#107 8/4/2008 10:46 AM UTC

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Why should Heroes be "gloomy"? No, the graphics shouldn't be like in the fifth game (there's still a lot of cartoonishness there). But look at the first five M&M games and the first two parts of Heroes. These are classic games in the series, and there's no noticeable gloominess there. The level of gloominess should be like in M&M6-8 and Heroes 3-4.

Registered: 3/11/2007

Posts: 30,625

#108 8/4/2008 1:11 PM UTC

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Here's how I envision the Sixth installment:
Gameplay - based on Heroes 2, but with significant differences. However, the changes should be gradual, introduced through expansions, as in Heroes 5, while also bringing the game closer to Heroes 4. Factions should be like those in Heroes 2, 5, or 4 (but not the unbalanced and absurd factions from Heroes 3 – from a gameplay perspective, Heroes 3 is the most tedious of the series; in Heroes 4, you can at least create role-playing, non-linear maps, while in Heroes 3, it's just with Wog, but that's a mod). So, there should be a few factions, but they should be radically different (not 2-4 templates, as in Heroes 3).
Graphics - Definitely not like Heroes 3 or 4. The graphics in Heroes 5 simply lacked a heroic feel. The graphics should be similar to Heroes 2 – not great, but captivating... the atmosphere... but not the gray landscapes from parts 3 and 4, which make you think about numbers rather than the world.
Characters and Story - like in Heroes 2. The plot doesn't have to be very complex, but Arch is great; it would be good to take some elements from Might and Magic with the Draconic races (if we return to the world of the previous games). Characters should be like those in Might and Magic and Heroes 2.
Music - to complement the atmosphere, and selected as precisely as in the previous installments.
Editor - perhaps it was one of the best in Heroes 4; it would be good to have something complex like Toolset or something simple but with additional options for those who want to delve deeper into creating role-playing maps.

Registered: 6/23/2007

Posts: 96

#109 8/5/2008 12:52 AM UTC

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In my opinion, the fifth installment is ideal, but with some reservations. I like the graphics and character design in the fifth game the most. :) The atmosphere in the fifth game is, in my opinion, perfect. Personally, I wouldn't be upset if the sixth game never comes out, and it's likely that Nival won't be working on it (at least not for now, and probably not at all, in my opinion). If I were to elaborate, here's what I'd like to see in a sixth installment: 1. A slightly more expansive atmosphere, with more specific landscape objects for each race's territory. 2. Music that fits as well as it does in Heroes 2 and 5. 3. Characters from the fifth game. 4. Gameplay should be balanced, as should the power dynamics between the races. The races should differ from each other in their core design and in many other ways. Although, I liked all the races in the fifth game visually, except for the mages. 5. The editor is a tricky one. Some people want a race editor (in which case, learning 3D-Max and 3D-Maya would be unavoidable, as you'd have to insert models), while others want simplified scripts. I don't even know; experienced mapmakers would prefer to create maps manually without an editor. ;) This is all just my opinion, of course

Играешь за Dungeon. Стань настоящим Тёмным эльфом, стань одним из нас. Dungeon'sRangers на HeroesWorld
DarkGod
Adun Toridas :smile02: :smile02: :smile02:и это не конец....:smile51:

In reply to DungeonLord

Registered: 7/10/2008

Posts: 11,947

#110 8/5/2008 1:11 AM UTC

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Here’s what I’d like to add, regardless of what the gameplay system will be in the sixth installment, but… WE DON’T NEED ANY ARMAGEDDON! We don’t need to break the world again and plunge Ashan into a fiery storm, an insane flood, and other joys of drunken gods. The graphics can remain “cartoonish” (I think it’s very cool to call it that), but they should become even better. The main thing is that it’s not the graphics, but the game as a whole that matters. It would be better to leave the races as they are now (meaning eight of them), although I would add one… I won’t say which one, but it’s from the “new ideas” section. A decent map generator wouldn’t hurt. Generators for races, artifacts, abilities, units, and so on… let’s give it to the Favorite of the Gods, in a single copy ;)
But most importantly, we want a game, not an “Interesting project.”

In reply to Wistrit

Registered: 7/1/2008

Posts: 238

#111 8/5/2008 9:38 AM UTC

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Thank you, Wistrit, for your generosity. But let's consider the Nine:
Haven:
Humans. A strength-based race.
Elves. A magic-strength based race.
Dwarves. A strength-technology based race.
Dungeon:
Necromancers. A magic-based race.
Dark Dwarves (brothers of the Light Dwarves, who, as a result of a demon attack, joined the Dungeon). A strength-based race.
Shadow League (not dark elves, but normal gargoyles, predators, shadows). A magic-based race.
Chaos Horde:
Chaos Demons and Strength
Orcs: Strength and Chaos
Easterners. Chaos Magic.

Plus, like in Generals Zero Hour. You can add two sub-races for each race.
14 troop slots. 28 types of troops in the castle, 14 levels, you can only choose 1 creature. Because, for example, you have to choose between a griffin and a hippogriff. Two sub-races: Modified buildings, 2 variants. Other creatures, variant 1 and variant 2 of the two sub-races. Basically, just different creatures in the slot. 7 levels of magic, 5 schools: Chaos Magic, Order Magic, Summoning Magic, Light Magic, Dark Magic. 25 levels of character progression. A choice between a female hero and a male hero - for example, in a strength-based race, a man attacks better, and a woman defends better. And so on. This is what I want to see in the sixth part of Heroes!;)

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