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The main thing is to repeat the mantra "Hota is not Heroes" more often, and people will be drawn to you, and the community will revive, just like in the good old days. Oh no, wait, on the contrary – it will turn into a sect named after Lord Davos, sitting in a half-dead Soda lobby (right now, 44 people versus 1072). No offense, but constant statements in the style of "I play Heroes, not what the other people around me play" from adults just look really funny. Hota, with all its pros and cons, still brought the third Heroes to a new level. Without it, everything would have remained at the level of gatherings of a narrow circle of forum users in GameRanger, communicating via ICQ.
The main thing is to repeat the mantra "HotA is not Heroes" more often, and people will be drawn to you, and the community will come alive, just like in the good old days. Oh no, wait, it's the opposite — you'll end up with a sect named after Lord Davos, sitting in a half-dead SoD lobby (right now 44 people against 1072). No offense, but constant statements in the style of "I actually play Heroes, unlike all the other gentlemen around" from adults look truly ridiculous. HotA, with all its pros and cons, did indeed take Heroes III to a new level. Without it, everything would have remained at the level of a small circle of forum users hanging out on GameRanger while chatting via ICQ.
No one is trying to discredit the Horn of the Abyss project. HotA truly took Heroes to a new level, but I'm afraid this level no longer borders SoD, for the simple reason that adjustments and innovations were introduced into it which killed the possibility of completing maps on the scale of Metataxer's Revenge, Xiedu, etc., etc. Furthermore, at the moment, there is absolutely no desire to create projects that are a priori subject to disposal with the release of another update. And by calling HotA "not Heroes," I think Dendy meant the colossal gap in mechanics. It really is huge, which is why HotA is perceived by many as a different game. But indeed, no one here is trying to discredit Horn of the Abyss. Nor does it have anything to do with the topic.
No one is trying to discredit the Horn of the Abyss project. HotA truly took Heroes to a new level, but that level, I'm afraid, no longer borders on SoD, for the simple reason that adjustments and innovations were introduced which killed the possibility of completing maps on the scale of Metataxer's Revenge, Xiedu, etc., etc. Furthermore, at the moment, there is absolutely no desire to create projects that are a priori subject to disposal with the release of another update. And by calling HotA not Heroes, I think Dendy meant the colossal gap in mechanics. It really is huge, which is why many perceive HotA as a different game. But no one here is trying to discredit Horn of the Abyss. Nor does this have any relation to the topic.
I agree that this isn't related to the topic. As is the fact that among those who constantly communicate here—no one is trying to discredit anything. Lider1
And there is another very important nuance here: HotA is NOT Heroes. This game is undoubtedly popular. A fan addon, expansion, mod—let whoever call it whatever they want. It's a game similar to Heroes, but it is NOT Heroes 3.
But he still tries, and not only in this thread; that's why I couldn't hold back.
Have you seen a single post where someone would write, "I completed the map in 1 day with the Admiral's Hat, I set a world record, I'm the coolest hero!"?
Just a few pages back, there was a post: sanyassh
Completed Paragon 2.0 in seven game days.
Based on Dandy's comments about completing it in 11 days and Kirill Polikushin's video, which clearly shows the path from the first day to obtaining the Admiral's Hat on the seventh: https://youtu.be/Qaup18KTXh8 My improvement is using the keymaster's tent bug when generating the starting save. The algorithm is as follows:
That is, the person didn't even come up with it themselves; they simply reproduced the Walkthrough based on other people's videos, and they weren't even ashamed to post it when they used a critical game bug. And the main thing is that this is still encouraged, as if they did a good job. Another person completed it in 1 day by starting with the red faction. This is just facepalm. In this thread, I read about the fast battle bug in almost every other message, which is no different from "nwcredpill." But we'll probably get to that too.Author
Completed Paragon 2.0 in seven seconds by entering a code.
I'm not saying that these people are bad or play poorly, etc. Everyone enjoys the game in their own way, but I don't like these methods; it disgusts me that this is presented as something normal.
Everyone enjoys the game in their own way, but I don't appreciate these methods, and it disgusts me that this is presented as something normal.
Here, it's not even presented as something "normal." There are smart people here who understand the game well and know what is a bug and what isn't. There's no need to write a disclaimer every time that the walkthrough author used somewhat unfair methods.
In this thread, I'm reading about a quick battle bug, which is essentially the same as "nwcredpill." But I guess we'll get there eventually.
If you perceive the quick battle bug this way, then either you don't understand something, or you're exaggerating for some reason. The bug has quite strong limitations in its application and is practically useless against ranged units or magic. In my tests in the Lime maps, the bug was useful in about 5 battles (out of around a hundred on the map). But again, it's not free: it sacrifices its own units, and not just any units, the number of which can be limited by the map author. It's only useful for ranged units and harpies, and usually requires a supply cart, the possible presence of which is also determined by the author. I'm very pleased with the idea that bugs should only be used in maps created specifically for them. This is a valid idea in theory, but in practice, with the exception of Bug Race, none of the maps that involve using a bug to complete them have any indication in the title or description that bugs should be used, and I remember at least 3 such maps (although some of them are Chinese). This is precisely what is related to the problem of self-identification on the LC map that I described above. The quick battle bug was only mentioned in the context of the Lime maps and was not used in the actual playthroughs, even Marlo regretted it and replayed the map because in the initial playthrough, he used it, but only for minor purposes; it doesn't help with major tasks. But personally, I was interested in experimenting and determining the strength of the method and what maximum benefit could be gained from its use. Experiments and research, even on a taboo topic for some, I consider an interesting and informative activity; at least, no one suffers from our experiments.
For comparison, I remember another bug - the berserk bug on two-hex units. This bug also has limitations in its application, also practically gives a free win in certain conditions, and also ignores the number of units in the enemy stack. It was also fixed in HD or HD+. I remember that on one of the puzzle maps, it was necessary to use it, and in the chat, Dirty_Player wrote that he used it against Hellight in the final. And I personally don't understand why using the quick battle bug is so objectionable, while using a similar bug/method of comparable strength is somehow okay, even though in that case, another person suffered.
PS Regarding other experiments, including the Admiral's hat, there is also something to say, but there is a lot to write about. If you insist, we can discuss this topic as well. PPS It wasn't me who wrote that "HotA is no longer the third Heroes." I am a supporter of the Heroes series in all its forms, starting with WOG, the Tournament Edition, the usual SoD, and ending with HotA; I even participated in the very first online tournament of HotA.
Nasos
5 years ago
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I think that the quick battle bug shouldn't be compared to using tactical nuances in combat. It's a real cheat that doesn't depend on the player's skill – suddenly, you win, and how it was achieved is irrelevant. I agree with Dirty_Player; it's very close to nwcredpill.
Dirty_PlayerThe person didn't even come up with it themselves; they just replicated a Walkthrough from other videos.
They listed what improvements they added themselves; it's not just the tent bug, but also the battle Walkthrough. There's no need to ignore this. I understand that the powerful Spell and tent bug makes it hard to see anything else, but we need to take this step. We can handle it.
Dirty_PlayerIn this thread, I read about the quick battle bug in almost every other message.
The last time it was mentioned was in the context of how it could be banned in SoD_SP because it interfered with the Walkthrough of one battle on the LC map. Before that, I mentioned this bug in a comparison with results without the bug. This is the terrible black magic that they call the mysterious word "method," and they say it's popular among young people with fresh fiber optic connections.
Dirty_PlayerIt's no different from "nwcredpill." But we'll probably get to that too.
We, the "method" users, already have everything covered. And some people are still being shamed for using Spell, haha.
Nasos
5 years ago
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Sorry, is it possible to create maps where the quick battle bug simply cannot be used (as well as the "ша" bug)? And where there is no need for SODs.
Added 39 minutes later
A question for the mapmakers. I've returned to map 6424, which Ed is playing. I started it a few years ago, but after the first week with the Moon, it seemed boring and trivial, so I gave up. Suddenly, I noticed that after building the Grail, flight and double damage are unavailable. Why is that? I would assume that this is because they are banned on the map in general. But Armageddon is also banned, yet it appears. Plus, it's unclear how the author managed to give the "random" scientist on the snowy respawn frenzy.
P.S. I have some ideas for my own map, so I'm studying the nuances.
Jesus_Milan
5 years ago
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The topic has come back to life! Here's a specific advantage of bugs.
If that's how you perceive the quick battle bug, then you either don't understand something or you're exaggerating for some reason. The bug has quite strong limitations in its application, it's practically useless against ranged units or magic. In my tests in the Lime maps, the bug was useful in about 5 battles (out of about a hundred on the map). But again, it's not free: it sacrifices its own units, not just any units, and the number of which can be limited by the map author, it is useful only for ranged units and harpies, and as a rule, a cart of ammunition is needed, the possible presence of which is also determined by the author.
No, the problem here is not in the limitations. The problem is that it allows you to achieve something that cannot be achieved manually under normal conditions. On some maps, this will give such a boost that cannot be surpassed by ordinary methods. Dandy
For comparison, I remember another bug - the berserker on two-hex units. The bug also has limitations in its application, it also practically gives a free win in some conditions and also ignores the number of units in the enemy stack. It was also fixed in HD or HD+. I remember that on one of the puzzle maps, it was necessary to use it, and in the chat, Dirty_Player wrote that he used it against Hellight in the final. And I personally don't understand why using the quick battle bug is so bad, while using a similar bug/method of similar power is somehow okay, even though in that case, another person suffered.
Yes, indeed, there was a bug with the use of the berserker in a tournament (which I eventually won). But this was a precedent, as a result of which the match was not counted, the bug was banned by the rules, and then fixed in HD+. The same thing happened with the Admiral's hat in Redwait's tournament game, which eventually led to a ban. Dandy
PS Regarding other experiments, including the Admiral's hat, there is also something to say, but there is a lot to write about. If you insist, we can discuss this topic as well.
As for the Admiral's hat, the map author can simply prohibit its appearance, and the problem will be solved. If desired, you can also ban berserkers or earthquakes. Refusing to use tents is a dubious idea, because on some maps, it is part of the plot. And to limit the quick battle bug, you would have to ban many things that can be used for normal purposes. It is impossible to protect the game from everything. And it's not necessary. There will always be cheaters. wenwell
We, the methodists, have long covered everything. And someone is still being shamed for using the Admiral's hat, haha.
Yes, I've heard about cheat speedruns, even in Heroes. That's really funny :D I also find real-time speedruns in Heroes very amusing. There are even videos where a complete newbie clicks in Heroes like in Starcraft, trying to show some kind of micro, although he can't even conduct battles properly, but he still wrote two letters WR :D
P.S.: I understand that I have a different view on this issue than most of those present here, but that's just the way it is, so please don't take it personally.
Added 1 minute ago Jesus_Milan
The topic has come to life))) Here is a specific plus from bugs))))
It just so happens that interest in forum topics is only raised by arguments. And the interest here is directly proportional to the intensity of the argument)
Nasos
5 years ago
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Another oddity regarding 6424. After the quest involving returning the Moon, Dessa learned hypnosis from it. She definitely doesn't have her own hypnosis skill (as most female characters don't), and it seems like learning from her scroll doesn't work either. What's going on?
I've returned to map 6424, which Ed is playing. I started it a few years ago, but after the first week with Luna, it seemed boring and trivial, so I gave up. Suddenly, I noticed that after building the Grail, flight and direct damage spells are unavailable. Why is that? I would assume that this is because they are banned on the map in general. But Armageddon is also banned there, yet it appears.
The priority in this matter lies with the spells cast directly in the city, rather than in the global map settings. Armageddon is not banned in the map editor.
Nasos
5 years ago
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Maybe you should open the map with a standard editor first and see for yourself that it’s not the case?
Marlo_Stanfield
5 years ago
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A puzzling story. The standard editor shows that Armageddon is banned, while the extended editor shows that it is not. Now I have questions about how this is possible. Moreover, if a built Grail grants Armageddon, it clearly indicates that the correct display is in the extended editor.
