Posts from Мафия 108. Haunted asylum

So, everyone loves to say that Tox is an unstable [censored], but nobody wants to put themselves in Tox's shoes.

I'll just explain how it looked from my side, and you judge for yourselves.

Anyway, I consider the first day a success for me. Yes, if my bet on Mornie being town didn't pay off, then I'm likely in the red, but if we are both town, then we already have a strong city link. I already have some initial suspicions about Crabby-Fragment-Lizard; there are potential allies. And overall, on the first day, I tried to play as brazenly as possible, knowing that my same-role ability cannot be stopped by anything, so both the town and the mafia can block me as much as they want. I was only afraid of death, which is why I whined a bit at the end of the first day, thereby making a double move: firstly, I was warding off the mafia, because there's a chance they'd think I'm intentionally whining about fearing death during the day while actually having protection and am baiting them into killing me (as it turned out, this move didn't work; the mafia went to kill me anyway, and I slightly overplayed myself), and secondly, I was laying some groundwork so that I supposedly look like Susanna asking for help, not wanting to spend an ult on the second night. But you know, those are just nuances.

In any case, I entered the second night with confidence. By the end of the day, I had already written a survey request to the Master regarding the Lizard and was ready to go chill...

And then they tell me I've been swapped. Moreover, it wasn't a swap with a useful role that could help me further clear myself, but with the mafia... And my only useful same-role ability is healing, which isn't even displayed in the newspaper. Plus, the set of items is as inconvenient as possible.

Well, that was the first moment when seeds of panic began to sprout. I quickly calmed myself down, decided that I would heal Morning to maintain the link, and that nothing terrible had happened; I'd help the town with the survey later as if I had written it myself. As long as a survey didn't hit me...

And then the Master comes along and says: "My dear fellow, you have a survey!"

And this is where I really start to get nervous. I don't know what to do; I realize that after the survey, my ultimate defense—"Actually, I could be the blogger, because she can't be blocked by anything, ha!"—will simply crumble if I do nothing.

But I pull myself together. I draw a table in my notebook with ALL possible answer options for the survey and their interpretations. I find the BEST option for myself, which is objectively great. Based on the answers, I would come out as either Susanna, or Charlie, or the Doctor, or the Guard, but I already have an argument ready regarding the Guard—that the Guard would have swapped items. I calm down and prepare to cosplay Susanna during the day; it's a good thing I laid that groundwork the previous day...

And then everything just goes south. Susanna is watching me... And my last bastion of defense collapsed at that moment. That was when, Revan, I panicked. The reason for this wasn't just the events of the night, but also the fact that the Master forbade me in DMs—under threat of a modkill—from A) helping you with the survey in any way; I literally begged him for the right to help you even slightly... I knew that if you could solve the survey (which you didn't, lol), then I would likely survive the day because the argument about the Guard, damn it, should have worked. And B) I was told explicitly to forbid any mention of a role like Charlie existing in the game. All I could write was "You can't trust the tables right now...", but everyone didn't care.

And I don't know what happened to me after that, but I really lost my mind. Some echo of 2012 (or whenever) awakened in me, and a voice in my head whispered: "Brother, listen, you can't help the town. Either you're being dumped right now by the real Charlies with the Doctor + negatives, or you're trying to flounder on the edge of a modkill..." After I wasn't even allowed to properly flounder, that voice continued: "Listen, you're being pressed anyway and threatened with a modkill. Maybe just screw it? You have unique info that needs to be conveyed to the town somehow. Today, the GM definitely won't let you make any hints, not even the most veiled ones. Maybe the best town move is to actually come out and reveal Charlie knows the mafia? After that, Charlie can also come out and dump the mafia immediately; it's a decent plan, right?"

And for half of the game day, I was seriously ready to come out just to help the town in some way. It seemed to me that this was truly the best thing I could do in that position, and it was emotional own-goal/delirium; I realize that now.

I don't regret playing so emotionally and hysterically; that's okay. I regret mentioning the adeptus. That really wasn't worth doing. Yes, I understand that the Master was really suffocating me, but I should have just swallowed it all and tried to cling to life using other methods.

I am absolutely wrong here and apologize to all players.

But Master, my dear, I feel good toward you, but now that the game is over, I can tell you here that you suffocated me too much. Especially since you made the survey for me really convoluted. I only figured it out correctly on the third attempt, and you forbade any help to the town, even the simplest hint that the question wasn't about a lone player... I think that wasn't very cool. That's exactly why I avoid the journalist role in my mafias—too many problems come with it. And yes, this is the second game on this forum where I get the journalist—and after which the game ends in a scandal, nerves, insults, and a mafia victory at the last moment... I don't want any more, please, no more...

As for the rest of the game, it's a shame that you didn't keep playing based on psychology and my will. Many mistakes were made; townies were pinned. Lizard is negative, Nebo is mafia—yes, that was very funny to read at the end...

Gumer isn't great for the modkill, but please, friend, don't leave the mafia. I also love making beautiful hints, but it's time to get used to the fact that ХВ-mafia isn't exactly about that.

It's a pity, of course. That's why I'll whine again about notes. Notes allow for beautiful hints without breaking the game rules. I even wrote to the Master, if I recall correctly, that in my next game I will definitely introduce notes and will regulate everything so that all this hint-playing is moved exclusively there, so that such things are immediately punished during the day.

And overall, simplify the mafia. People aren't coping yet; it's obvious. The newspaper analysis was mediocre; no one even remembered the possibility that my same-role ability could have been swapped. Hostor wrote a long post in a neighboring thread suggesting running a minimally burdened mafia. I don't agree with this, of course, but I would run the next mafia simpler than not only this one, but even mine about fever and overdose...

Anyway, alright, the game turned out epic and memorable; I hope that the wave of hype and memes from it won't let the game wither away anytime soon. Thanks everyone! Please don't execute me so early in the next game, let me play normally. xD

P.S. Re-read Neyra's post again; yes, I must admit my fault here as well. The post about "great hit, mafias" was indeed unnecessary and violated the rules. This is not an excuse, but I wrote it on a huge wave of negative emotions because I was executed after all, so I didn't even think much, just blurted it out. Of course, I should have deleted it immediately. My apologies for spoiling your game.

Added after 4 minutes

Well... Victory is undoubtedly the main goal of any player, as it's built into the mechanics, but ultimately the goal of a game where there are no stakes is to have fun. You can look at it from the position of a player for whom not only would victory through violations bring no pleasure, but they wouldn't even want to participate in such a game in the future.

Well yes, I wrote that big post above, the emotions have subsided, and I can now perceive information more rationally.

Yes, I understand. Yes, I admit once again that it was very wrong of me to start mentioning the adeptus. That is truly an unacceptable move.

Or rather, how so. I've played classic mafia IRL quite a bit; there, something like getting a modkill for such a reveal (without flipping a card, just verbally, when, say, there's a discussion before voting and you start screaming info out of turn, receiving a final warning) to dump a black player is normal—it's an acceptable move. And maybe on other forums, the move of taking a modkill for the sake of giving useful info to the town isn't so bad; it's just one of the options for play, but here, specifically among these people and on this forum, you can't do that.

I understand this now and will maximize control over my emotions in future games and not allow such things to happen.

Tell me about the Adeptus.

In the HeroesWorld archives thread, everything is there...

PITS - adeptum mechanicus

Ehh... Excuse me, what did you say?

ND of the survivor - lizard attack.

What "principles" are you talking about? If they had identified the killer after at least 4 rounds, I would have immediately banned him... But there were only 3 rounds, so...

Based on previous games. Oh, how you talked back then about the urban trends favoring the killer... I understood that the number of rounds was a factor, but you said yourself that the city had already lost. By the way, how would you have acted if Lars with the double voice hadn't been killed, but another player?

But I think this will be my last. The efforts I put in, especially on the last day, didn't really pay off in the end, and you'll remember me as a loser who, in any unclear situation, writes "gg, wp".) Nothing can be done about it.

Your efforts brought us victory, but even if they hadn't, I would still remember you as a hardworking player and a great teammate. I hope you'll come back sometime, I'd be happy to play with you again)

And B) I was explicitly told to forbid even mentioning that there is a role in the game called Charlie.

I'm not sure that even I, who strongly disagree with the adepts, wouldn't "join them" after this. I understand the ban on revealing the poll results, but forbidding pointing out the contents of a set is, in my opinion, a complete overreaction...

Added 2 minutes ago

I'm curious, Yaschur, what did you think of me on the second day, knowing that I visited Morny, and there wasn't a single neutral in the newspaper that night... And you didn't accuse me then, I'm interested in your logic.

I didn't accuse you for a perfectly understandable reason. :D As for what I thought... I don't remember anymore...

Added 3 minutes ago

Neutral survivor - a Yaschur attack.

Ah... I see... So, here's a term for a pair of negatives. There's a town, there are mafia, there's a maniac, and there are... Yaschurs... :D

Added 5 minutes ago

Based on past games. Oh, how you droned on about the urban trends favoring the maniac... I understood that the number of neutrals was a factor, but you said yourself that the town had already lost.

Well, when the town has definitely lost ("mathematical chances" aside), I don't see anything wrong with playing as the maniac. I get annoyed when the town doesn't target the maniac when there's no need to. I was describing the situations...

By the way, what would you do if Lars, with his double vote, wasn't killed, but another neutral was?

Good question... I'd probably weigh the options...

Added 2 minutes ago

I'm calming down and preparing to play Suzanne during the day, that's why I was laying the groundwork the previous day...

And then it just goes crazy. Suzanne is watching me...

And that's what happens when you try to take on someone else's role... x)

What does "last game" or "I'm not playing anymore" mean?! I ate five buckets of popcorn just on the second day, watching the hilarious antics with Tox's adept. When else will you see such a spectacle?

Besides the laughter, I understand you. I don't want to go back, partly because of these emotional moments. It's one thing to laugh from the sidelines, and another to be in the thick of it.

I'm not sure that even I, who strongly dislike Adeptus, wouldn't "enable it" after this. I understand the ban on deciphering the poll, but banning pointing out the contents of the set – that's a complete overreach in my opinion...

because there's too thin a line between discussing the setting and revealing hidden information. Other players are perfectly capable of reading the role descriptions themselves.

In any case, thank you all for the game, I had a lot of fun, even when I died.

I've drawn my conclusions, so let's play again!

because there's a very thin line between discussing the setting and revealing hidden information. Other players are perfectly capable of reading the role descriptions themselves.

Yeah. I'm like a designated Dave. Other roles are assigned to me using blocks, polls, etc. Here, some jerk is swapping me with someone else, and that someone else is isolating me. That's it! I have no peaceful roles assigned to me. And I don't have the right to protection either. So, either die from the executioner or from a modkill... OK, but please note such things in the rules so that someone doesn't accidentally ruin someone else's enjoyment of this kind of chaos...

Oops, I completely forgot to check the logs for the poll in the second newspaper. Thanks for mentioning it, Toksi...
Yeah, it was a subtle reference, a very subtle one...

When my opponent in MTG breaks the rules during a serious tournament, for example, I don't yell at him; I simply call the judge, explain the situation, and he receives a warning (not even a game loss, I am usually against the opponent losing immediately for breaking the rules), and I continue to play calmly against him, without insulting him either during or after the game. I understand that we are, after all, online, and you can allow yourself more liberties here, but it's just a game, and I think you're overreacting a bit.
And furthermore, I don't quite understand the complaints about the "reveal." First, I made the message as ambiguous as possible. I'm sure that for most players, it sounded like an accusation of successfully guessing the role of a town member during the day. Second, I'm not even sure that Morning understood it. Third, you still won, so what complaints or grievances could you possibly have? I just don't understand.

Tox, when a participant joins a game, they automatically accept its rules, even if they haven't read them. Specifically, in this game, one of the rules states:

3) It is forbidden to directly reveal your role, the roles of other players, or information known due to the specifics of the role and night actions. Execution is indicated in bold font as "Execute xxx." Cancellation of execution is indicated in bold font as "Do not execute xxx." Clues are given in quants. A hint about the role of the killed player is also given. If there are too obvious hints about hidden information (even if there is none), sanctions may be applied to the player in the form of a warning, reduction of role features and actions, or a modkill.

And by violating even one of the accepted rules (in this case, you intended to, and Gumer violated this rule), you show disrespect to all participants in the process, i.e., to the GM and the players. And personally, as a player (not as a mafia player who, as it were, won and should be happy, ignoring the inappropriate actions of others, because they lost anyway x)))00000, I find this kind of behavior extremely unpleasant.
There is a format where players are allowed to reveal their own or others' roles directly, and they usually face certain consequences in the form of execution/killing, but not a modkill. But such things are agreed upon in advance as part of the rules, and this is a perfectly acceptable format if everyone agrees to it before the game starts. If we are talking about a game where it is explicitly stated that revealing and directly hinting at a role is not allowed, then please, follow the rules, and don't blackmail players with the threat of revealing everything you learned in the first two nights or simply reveal it because you are offended by the votes against you.

In short, about the game mechanics. The overuse of types of protection and killings, where you constantly have to play a guessing game, is not needed because it confuses players even more and puts obstacles in the way of both sides.
I would also like to note that the Charlie role's mechanics are quite interesting in themselves, but not suitable for a town role. Rather, such a night action could be given to a serial killer as an addition to the kill, so that he can sow chaos and confusion. He doesn't care whether a town member is executed because of such a switch of night actions or whether the mafia messes up a kill. But all of this is, of course, just my opinion (as is the case with the words addressed to Tox above).

Added 10 minutes ago
And yes, Tox, so you understand, I'm not just criticizing your excessively infantile behavior for no reason. This is not the first time I have reprimanded you for such behavior, if you have forgotten. We already went through this in a game with an adept, when I wrote to you in a private message that you shouldn't do that and why. But that was eight years ago, and you were a teenager, so all of his actions could simply be attributed to his age. But now you are an adult, and as it turns out, little has changed in 8 years. Except that you have learned to stop before revealing everything when you are asked to stop in the thread and by the GM in a private message before it is too late.

1. ToX can't be Eddie – he was blocked both nights, and the second block still went through;
2. ToX can't be Suzanne – she visited him;

And you can't write "Crabby, buddy, anyone can be anyone here. We have a cheater in the online game..." Moreover, you can't even say it about another player because "the GM forbade any mention of Charlie's presence"...

But I don't understand anything about the night phase. Let's say Revan and Nebka were blocked, but if the Mafia blocked Revan again, where did the second block come from? O_o

Either "Girl" or Lars...

Now I'm thinking, if the Mafia wanted to eliminate the blocker, they hit him with a mental attack (because of protection against physical attacks, and the chief physician with a piercing defense is already dead). So, it turns out that Lars with dispersion did visit Revan.

And it turned out to be true... Is that all? Can we modkill now?:D And what if a real Lars had written that?

And you can't write "Crabby, buddy, anyone can be anyone here. We have a cheater in the online game..." Not even about another player, because "the GM forbade any mention of Charlie's presence"... And it turned out to be true... Is that it? Can we modkill now? What if it was Lars who wrote that?

Lizard, stop stretching the truth. Tox provided enough information on the second day to understand what he was leading to, but still within the rules. Revan, if I'm not mistaken, brought up the topic of Charlie during the discussion. During our private messages, I protected Tox from a modkill several times. And I didn't give him the deserved modkill at the end of the day while he was writing congratulatory messages to the mafia, and I was preparing the description of the execution at that time. We can be happy about this fact and stop arguing. Everyone will stick to their own opinion anyway.

Gumer has been playing for a long time, and he's even pretty good. I didn't expect that from him.

That's a complete misconception about me.

So, Modkill was quite unjustified. I just didn't understand the line between the first time I posted a link to a phrase from the previous Mafia game and received a warning in a private message, and the second time, when I only added the word "sure" + the link and received a modkill.

Like, if I had written this manually, would it also have been a modkill? Maybe it's just that Tox and Master have different levels of vigilance on this issue, but seeing 0 reaction to the phrase "I'm peaceful" and a modkill for "I'm possibly peaceful" is very strange to me.