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Where do you look for Chinese maps and their walkthroughs?
on http://gamerhome.com/bbs/forum.php It's not very clear there :) but you can browse the topics and see what maps are offered. Sometimes you can find well-known maps there (including Paragon, for example). There are also walkthrough sections with screenshots and step-by-step descriptions. During one visit every six months or a year, I can download 20-40 maps, and then sort them out in the editor to see what's interesting and what isn't. You can also search for maps by a specific author.
You can also find video walkthroughs of individual maps on the Chinese equivalent of YouTube - Youku, they are there, but I don't know how to search for them. Links to videos are sometimes found on forums, and after loading, you can see them. That's how I found the perfect walkthrough for the first few weeks of one of the best maps I've played, "Jedi Counterattack".
At the end, after freeing Rasti, it was probably possible to save another day, but I didn't bother.
Three battles seemed quite challenging. The battle of Orin against the rampart with -3 morale, the goal is to win without losses in the main stacks (archers, enchantresses, titans, and elves) and save mana for teleportation. It was pure luck; after several hours, due to constant demoralization, I wanted to break the computer)). https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JYiuz6UuhowjHQo17uRaW6GYishN1Ljj
I looked at the saves – it's some kind of bug exploitation.
I'm not diminishing your achievement; you did a good job finding the obvious author's flaws in the map, but comparing such a playthrough to a playthrough by someone who speedran the map in full accordance with the author's intention is like comparing playthroughs of a map with and without abusing the Admiral's Hat.
It's like comparing walkthroughs of a map with and without exploiting the Admiral's Hat.
A highly unfair comparison :)
Yes, in terms of effort, a speedrun through Rusty is less demanding than a "full" playthrough, but the idea is implemented in a great and very unobvious way, and, in my opinion, it doesn't really matter whether the author intended this possibility or not. The result is very impressive.
Yes, in terms of effort, a speedrun through Rust is less demanding than a "full" playthrough, but the idea is implemented in a fantastic and very non-obvious way, and in my opinion, it doesn't really matter whether the author intended this possibility or not. The result is very beautiful.
I can't analyze the saves right now, and to be honest, I'm a little lazy. Can you tell me what the ingenious idea is that no one had guessed before?
I looked at the save files – it seems like some kind of exploit usage.
No bugs were used, except for boarding a boat without boots/gauntlets with a slow unit. And, of course, at the end, to complete the quest. But to consider using map features as a bug is questionable.
Added 22 minutes later In theory, it could have been improved further by launching an attack on Inferno in week 4, but I thought there would be too many losses, which would prevent breaking through the blue rampart for the brown tent later.
Added 10 minutes later LordL
I can't analyze the save files right now, and, to be honest, I'm a little lazy. Could you tell me what the ingenious idea is that no one has figured out yet?
There are 3 ideas. Rescuing Fata instead of that hellish battle with elementals on day 111 (he is needed later to rescue Kir from the island and Dessa from the cursed land).
Not discarding Armageddon's Blade to unlock the column for further rescuing of Rusty. Moreover, the blade allows you to win the battle against the Azure faction in week 2 and get the Lance of Legend.
Since we are not in a programming environment where the concepts of "bug" and "feature" are clearly defined, let's define what we mean by "bug" and "feature" in the context of map design in Heroes 3.
If we take other games as an example, when a player has the opportunity to complete a part of the game faster due to some "trick," it's a feature if the developer came up with this trick. However, if the developer made a mistake in the code, and as a result, a player finds a way, for example, to glitch through the textures in a shooter, then it's a bug. Yes, some bugs require ingenuity to find, but that doesn't stop them from being bugs.
An example of what I call a "feature" is the plot twist on Paragon, where the player is required to either give 30 archangels or fight Ghashra. The second option is obviously more difficult and requires more mental effort from the player, but it also gives him additional resources by saving the 30 archangels and through subsequent quests. But most importantly, this course of action is fully intended by the author.
You made certain actions in your playthrough only because the author did not think through his map well enough. In the Rose Cavalier walkthrough thread, Nautilus wrote that he was sure throughout the entire process of creating it that the player would not have the opportunity to acquire Mr. Fat. The same applies to the possibility of keeping Armageddon's Blade and the possibility of saving both Dessa and Orrin. As the author of the map, especially one that is so large and well-thought-out, I would be extremely unhappy to learn that there are "holes" in it.
I agree, Nautilus didn't envision such a Walkthrough. Although I suspect the wisdom in Pandorka for Dessa isn't just for show. But it's twice as satisfying to find some non-trivial idea. Let's recall Xenia Firstblood's epic Walkthrough.
Added after 15 minutes If we talk in general about the mapmaker's intent vs the Walkthrough, I'll note that it would be quite dull if the player had no options and could only follow the author's strategy.
Added after 36 minutes Obi
a plot twist on Paragon, where the player is required to either give up 30 archs or fight Ghashra. The second option is obviously harder
Well yes, at one time Paragon seemed like a difficult map, although shooting Ghashra from the town doesn't exactly feel like hardcore. Waiting for when Rince pushes himself and delivers a truly difficult 3.0.
I have two maps in mind that look impressive. Maybe you'll find them interesting.
I've played on the Shan Hai Legend map for 24 and a half months. There are 8 stationary boss heroes left to defeat one by one, along with the enemy castles. The editor shows that near the end of the map, you can obtain the Air book and reach the previously inaccessible enemy cities, as well as double the mana there. But before that, you need to defeat seven of them. Tazar has become my main hero, but he clearly lacks mana. The enemy troops are simply terrifying. Almost every other hero has the Sign of Courage or Art against Berserkers. Here's an example of the next battle I'm facing; Berserkers don't work here. There are no Vulnerability medals on the map.
I don't think every way to complete a map that wasn't intended by the author should be considered a bug. I shouldn't have to read the author's mind and figure out how I'm supposed to act. I have the right to use all the possibilities that the map gives me. The ability to redeem Mr. Fat – that's not a bug; the game allows you to buy heroes in the tavern. Buying a hero in the tavern is obviously not a bug; it's one of the key features of the game, and there's no reason not to use it. There are bugs in the game that are real bugs and clearly not intended by the developers. For example, the Admiral's Hat bug. I agree that this is a developer error; the hat is clearly not intended for that purpose, and using it isn't entirely fair.
Wow, I thought I was the only one grinding for 2k+ months!
It's been a while since I played maps where the final involves defeating bosses one after another, with clearly insufficient strength. The following are MISSING: - a main hero (Tazar) with intelligence, - mana doublers or dungeons, - a vulnerability medal. Almost all of the last bosses are immune to berserk and/or blindness, and most units are generally immune to blindness (Titans). Even using some kind of Chinese strategy like sieging a castle or defending in a castle isn't possible, because the bosses are standing in the field. Tazar only has up to 990 mana, and raising all the troops will deplete almost all of it. Essentially, you need to save up strength for the next battle so that there is at least an adequate ratio of meat shields to damage dealers. Visiting all the morale and luck points has become essential; in some battles, this helps a lot (especially against the Necropolis). In general, the end of the map is visually apparent, but when it will happen is unknown.
It’s been a while since I played maps where you have to defeat bosses one after another in the finale, while clearly lacking the necessary strength. The following are missing: - the main hero (Tazar) has low intelligence, - there are no mana doublers or dungeons, - there is no vulnerability medal. Almost all of the last bosses are immune to berserk and/or blindness; most units are generally immune to blindness (Titans). It is not even possible to use some kind of Chinese strategy, such as a castle siege/castle defense, because the bosses are in the field. Tazar only has up to 990 mana, and raising all the stats will cost almost everything. In essence, you need to accumulate strength until the next battle so that there is at least an adequate ratio of meat/cannon fodder. Visiting all the morale and luck points has become mandatory; this helps a lot in some battles (especially against the undead). In general, the end of the map is visually visible, but when it will happen is unknown :)
But can’t you beat these battles with a specialist in intelligence? What about hit-and-run tactics, or the lack of taverns/shackles? We’re waiting for the map’s outcome
Aren't there battles that can't be passed with an intelligence-based hero? What about hit-and-run tactics, or the lack of taverns/outposts? We're waiting for the final result of the map.
Thank you for the ideas; I've also considered them. However:
- Aren't there battles that can't be passed with an intelligence-based hero? Some battles can be passed with them, but mostly those where the enemy doesn't deal massive damage. In the last 10-15 boss battles, Elleshar can only pass every 3rd battle, approximately, but Tazar is preferable. Here's an example of a battle against a Necromancer, where Elleshar could "hide" behind Titans, blind the Archdevils, and use Berserk on other enemy Archdevils to defeat all the Liches. Mana played a key role here.
The other screenshot shows an example of the current battle that needs to be passed. Our troops are not one-shot by the 20,000 damage shots of the Titans, but they are almost one-shot, especially if it's Elleshar. Tazar can at least hold out somewhat.
- What about hit-and-run tactics, or the lack of taverns/outposts? The enemy doesn't have outposts because they aren't needed. There was only 1 outpost found on the map. There are no taverns, either external or in castles, so hit-and-run tactics are impossible.
I've reviewed the map countless times, both in the prospector and in the editor; there are no alternative routes. I wouldn't say the map is impossible to complete, but there simply aren't enough forces to pass the bosses yet. It seems that the trick to completing it in 22 months is to capture all the castles in the central part of the map more quickly (which I've been delaying) and buy the growth bonus in them, resulting in a larger army at a later date.
The only ways to play are: - having cows eat high-level dragons (Crystal, Azure, etc.) - generating fear in enemy stacks against the Azure dragons (which are targeted first) - blocking ranged stacks with Phoenixes to disable them for 2 rounds, - generating morale + luck (especially morale) for your bears and their clones, as well as morale for the Titans, - having a larger stack of Archons to be able to raise more of your own forces (we still don't have time to raise troops after the 20,000 damage shots from the Titans).
The simplest way is to accumulate forces: Archons first, bears second, Titans, and cows.
I'm attaching screenshots and a save file for anyone who wants them
aren't those battles difficult for a character with low intelligence? what about hit-and-run tactics, or the lack of taverns/shrines? we're waiting for the map's final result))
update: I went to fight another hero - Nila, who is at an absurdly high level. We deal a maximum of 1 damage :) Following the old strategy, I took cows to kill black dragons. And all of Nila's golems were killed by the fire shield on the cows. I finished off the last diamond golems with an arrow, costing 2 mana, dealing 64 damage (exactly enough for 1 golem). Now we have a potion of life, and things will go better!
update 2. After Nila and obtaining the potion of life, I easily defeated Tazar and Theodore, gained +5 levels on events (20,000 azure, 24,000 fairy, 16,000 wizards each), and with the assembled Angel Alliance, I defeated Brissa. Next up are Solmyr and Andra. After killing them in the north, you can go to the island of azure dragons and get the book of air there.
How ethical is it to use bugs like the Phoenix bug and the clone bug? I heard that the Chinese don't even hesitate and actively use them when playing maps. Is this true?
kolotok
