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Posts from UNIT - Creature Balance + Visual ChangesAuto-translated
Yes, in 1% of cases when the opponent doesn't even engage at medium range, they will use longbowmen, and no one is arguing against that. This is what is meant by "under certain circumstances."
The initiative factor is very important. If you reduce 9 to 8, it's essentially very close to a damage penalty from 6-10 to 4-9. The question is, why should the initiative of archers be penalized instead of their damage?
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
I have a question. Didn't you think about giving Banshees a "Deadly Strike" ability? So that they would be effective against high-level creatures, just like with Lords and Broodlings (one type is good against high-level creatures, the other against large stacks). The "Wailing Cry" ability is just too silly. After playing a few games with Death Knights, I want to say that this ability is very, very overrated and is definitely not an overpowered ability. The chance is only 25%, and they already deal a lot of damage, so even without it, they still cut down high-level creatures well. It is only effective against creatures of levels 1-4, when there are many of them, and even then, you shouldn't forget that the chance is only 25%. I don't think that the Broodling's "Deadly Strike" is worse. Of course, "Deadly Strike" will be more useful than "Withering Touch", so by reducing health, initiative, and speed, I think it would create a good balance and make it more interesting to choose between these useless Banshees.
I knew he would get banned, especially after I saw it for the first time:D Respect for the most questionable nickname :smile52: I came up with an idea on my own:smile54:
Sorry for the spam, I just have a fit of laughter of the highest level because of this guy, I don't know why:D
I have a question. Didn't you think about giving Banshees a "Deadly Strike" ability? So that it would be like with Necromancers and Demons (one is good against high-level creatures, the other – against large stacks). The "Mournful Wail" ability is too silly. After playing several games with Death Knights, I want to say that this ability is very overrated and definitely not overpowered. It has only a 25% chance, their damage is already high, so they cut down high-level creatures well even without it. It is effective only against creatures of levels 1-4 when there are many of them, but again, don’t forget that the chance is only 25%. I don’t think the Demon’s Killing Blow is worse. Of course, Deadly Strike will be more useful than Wasting Touch more often, so by reducing health, initiative, and speed, I think it will create balance and make choosing useless banshees more interesting.
Oh, I didn’t manage to answer, and the person was already banned. But if you still appear or want to get an answer, then contact me in PM.
Nargott
Yes, in 1% of cases when the opponent doesn't even approach at medium range, they will use Longbowmen; who argues? This is what is called, under certain circumstances.
That's exactly the point... When choosing upgrades, about 70% of the time, players will choose the alternative upgrade, if the damage of the upgrade is reduced to 4-9. And I would like the player to have to think before making a choice, instead of immediately choosing the alternative upgrade. Nargott
The initiative factor means a lot. If you turn 9 into 8, this is actually very close to a damage penalty from 6-10 to 4-9. The question is, why should archers have their initiative penalized rather than their damage?
Okay, what is your suggestion? Reduce the damage and increase the initiative? ---------- I would also like to hear more opinions regarding the damage of Tier 2 creatures for the Order faction. It would be good to familiarize yourself with the arguments from posts [361] and [373] first
Okay, what's your suggestion? Reduce the damage and increase the initiative?
For Lyutoluk, the initiative can remain high at 9, then the damage would be 4-9 or 5-9. Or even increase the initiative to 10, then the damage would be 4-7 or 4-8. The upper limit is likely a slight buff.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
Why not make it so that Imperial Archers have the Double Shot ability?
Double Shot is a signature ability of the Sylvan Elves – there’s no need to give it to everyone. Ideally, abilities shouldn’t be repeated too often among different creatures, because then the unique identity of a unit is lost (this doesn’t apply to abilities like living creature/undead/demon/large creature, because these are primarily not abilities, but rather racial affiliation and a characteristic of size).
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
Then, with 2-4 attack and double strike, and an initiative of 9. We also need to consider the impact of battle frenzy, which will almost always affect them.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
Double Shot is a signature ability of the Sylvan faction – it's not a good idea to give everything to everyone; ideally, abilities shouldn't be repeated frequently among different creatures, because then the unit loses its unique identity.
Bash, which is repeated in Haven, and many other abilities, seem questionable. However, the developers decided to abandon the Double Shot ability for anyone other than elves (although they left it available for modders). Perhaps, they had a good reason.
Guys, I've looked at all your battles, and I might have a solution. How about writing a simple program with a simple interface that would work on the principle of WoG settings? The idea is this: If I understand correctly, all creature changes are small files with specific paths that are placed in an archive. And what if we make this archive so that during installation, the player can choose which changes go into the archive and which don't? That is, an archive with all the changes would be downloaded, an executable would be launched, in which the user would spend a couple of hours selecting which settings they need, clicking on checkboxes, or looking at the creatures they are interested in (it would be possible to systematize all the changes by Faction -> Level -> Upgrade). After selecting all the settings, the program would create an archive that would contain the files selected by the player. Why all this fuss? In this mod, there are quite a few suggestions, and this approach would allow all suggestions to be implemented. The author would simply update the program (if he doesn't make it dynamic), add new files with corresponding paths to the archive, and that's it. "Since you're so smart, why don't you do it yourself!" At the moment, I don't have enough knowledge and experience to do this, but if in a year or so, when the mod is at its peak and there are several similar mods, I am reminded of this, then I will take it on and create this program (I have an idea of the algorithm of how it will look, but I don't have the necessary knowledge of the programming language and the necessary environment). Thank you for your attention
The idea is as follows: if I understand correctly, all creature changes are small files with specific paths that are placed in an archive. What if we make this archive such that when installing, the player chooses which changes go into the archive and which do not? That is, an archive with all the changes would be downloaded, an executable would be launched, in which the user would spend a couple of hours selecting the settings they need by clicking on squares, or looking at the creatures that interest them (it would be possible to systematize all the changes by Faction -> Level -> Grade). After selecting all the settings, the program would create an archive that would include the files selected by the player.
In general, the structure of modifications really looks like this. Your idea is interesting, to be honest, I have already thought about something similar when there were heated discussions about some rather controversial changes, even in the early versions of the project. I was thinking of making some changes optional. As an example of how convenient this is, I looked at the launcher of the adapted modpack "EWA", which already implements something similar. With the settings, it is possible to disable some modifications included in the pack, and this is very convenient. But, unfortunately, this approach does not suit all mods. And there are several reasons for this:
1) The fact is that complex balance mods, such as "UNIT", cover a huge number of changes for almost all creatures, factions, and more... Many changes are directly related to each other, and if one of them is disabled, the second will either be useless or, conversely, too powerful.
2) There will be a lot of customizable options, and while the user configures and sets all these "checkboxes", the desire to play will probably decrease.
3) If the user wants to play a multiplayer game with someone, then some complications will appear again. The player will have to configure the mod in the launcher absolutely identically to their opponent, otherwise, desynchronization will not allow the game to start. Again, we return to the nuance from point 2.
4) The mod is divided into 2 parts: an archive with balance changes and an archive with visual changes, which retain their functionality even separately. That is, if the player is not satisfied with the balance in the mod, he can limit himself to only its visual component, and vice versa. I think this is more than enough :)
Uriel Septim X
Why all this fuss? In this modification, there are quite a few suggestions, and this approach would allow all the suggestions to be implemented. The author would simply update the program (if he doesn't make it dynamic), add new files with the corresponding paths to the archive, and that's it.
As much as I would like to please all users or implement all the voiced suggestions, it is simply impossible to do so. It is simply impossible to please everyone; there are as many opinions as there are people, each player has their own idea of balance, somewhere it overlaps with someone else's, and somewhere it doesn't, and someone will always be dissatisfied. I have seen many projects (I mean not only the "Heroes of Might and Magic" series) where developers tried to please the entire audience, and as a result, initially ambitious and interesting projects turned into a mess, and simply a game without a "face", faded.
Within this project, I try to objectively look at the balance of factions and always, as far as possible, compare my opinion with the opinions of other players and fans of the game. In situations where the changes are particularly controversial, they are put to a collective decision, and subsequently implemented according to the majority of opinions, and the desire to please everyone has never been the goal of the project.
Uriel Septim X
"Since you are so smart, go ahead and do it!" At the moment, I do not have enough knowledge and experience to do this, but if in a year or two, when the mod is at its peak and there will be several similar mods, I am reminded of this, then I will take it up and do this program (I have an idea of the algorithm, how it will look, but I do not have the necessary knowledge of the programming language and the necessary environment). Thank you for your attention.
If your enthusiasm eventually pushes you to create something similar for modifications, I am sure it will only be a "+" for you and for the Heroes community. As long as people have a desire to improve or do at least something for the game, the game will live. I have always said that there are no bad mods for this game, there are only mods that have not yet been brought to perfection :)
1) The thing is, comprehensive balance mods, such as "UNIT", cover a huge number of changes for almost all creatures, Factions, and more... Many changes are directly interconnected, and if one of them is disabled, the other will either become useless or, conversely, an overly powerful buff.
I only laid out the idea; similar nuances can be solved just as they are in WoG: there, the user is warned about possible lags and bugs. However, there is one more thought: in the Factions selection section, create a "Comprehensive Mods" item, where dependent mods could be enabled/disabled simultaneously.Frozensoull
2) There will be veeeery many customizable options, and by the time the user configures and checks all these "boxes," the desire to play will likely diminish.
Add "Enable all..." buttons followed by the choice of faction/tier/other parameter. Frozensoull
3) If the user wants to play an online game with someone, some complications will arise here again. The player will be forced to configure the mod in the launcher absolutely identically to their opponent, otherwise desync will prevent the game from starting. Again, we return to the nuance from point 2.
In my vision, all checkboxes will change boolean-type variables. An option "Save settings to a separate file" could be added, which would create a txt file with those variables that had the true parameter. From this follows the need for another function "Configure parameters from file," which would read the file and set the checkboxes as needed. The latter function would allow the user to try different settings, saving them in the program folder.Frozensoull
4) The mod is divided into 2 parts: an archive with balance changes and an archive with visuals, which remain functional even separately. That is, if the player is not satisfied with the balance in the mod, they can limit themselves to only its visual component, and vice versa. I think this is more than enough :)
I have encountered global mods where the balance is almost perfect, but some small detail significantly ruins the game. This situation occurred in Disciples 2, for which there is a global DOOM'S mod. Everything is fine, but for one of the mage upgrade branches of the Undead Hordes, weapon immunity was removed. It was replaced with defense. The difference is that previously, one such unit could handle 6 superior opponents with a "weapon" attack source, whereas with the new balance, this unit can barely handle a warrior similar to itself. The same applies to Heroes: there may be many sound balance changes, but they removed some unit ability, or redesigned the calculation formula for it, and that's it—the unit becomes not as useful as before. Of course, this issue was discussed earlier—there will be imbalance—but this correction can be balanced by something else and moved to the "comprehensive" section. In this case, the player will have the opportunity to play with this modification without changing a particular unit. Regarding your division: it can be left as is, splitting the mod download into two stages, then before operation, the program would scan the folder (or archive) with the mod. However, the download could be made as a single archive, and in the program, all changes would be divided into "Balance" and "Graphical." Both options can be implemented.Frozensoull
As much as I would like to please absolutely all users or implement all voiced suggestions, it is simply impossible to do so. You simply cannot please everyone; as many people as there are, so are there opinions. Every player has their own idea of balance; in some places it overlaps with someone else's, and in others it doesn't; someone will always remain dissatisfied. I have seen many projects (meaning not only the "Heroes of Might and Magic" game series) where developers tried to please the entire audience, and in the end, initially ambitious and interesting projects turned into just a muddle, and simply a game without a "face," washed out.
Within the framework of this project, I try to look objectively at the balance of Factions and always, whenever possible, check my opinion against the opinions of other players and fans of the game. In situations where changes are particularly controversial, they are put to a collective decision and subsequently implemented according to the majority opinion, and the strive to please everyone was never the goal of the project.
I agree with you here, because this project is yours, and here you decide what goes and what doesn't. This idea was proposed so that battles would not ignite in discussions, as well as to simplify working with the mod (after all, with such a program it will be more convenient for you to test individual creatures). However, this is just a rational (from my point of view) suggestion.Frozensoull
If your enthusiasm eventually pushes you to create something similar for modifications, I am sure it will only be a "+" for both you and the Heroes Community. As long as people have the desire to improve or do at least something for the game, the game will live. I have always said that there are no bad mods for this game, only mods that have not yet been perfected :)
For now, I am only learning to write programs, but in the future, I plan to create something similar, perhaps even for several projects
Nargott
AstralLein
