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But in the HD mod, it seems to be fixed. However, it is definitely prohibited in the hotseat rules.
Dirty_Player
Posts from Walkthroughs for custom maps.
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Dirty_Player
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Here are some immediate questions for you:
1. At the start, all players receive different bonuses – the pink player received an artifact. This shouldn't be done on custom RPG maps: it's better to give everyone a gold bonus, unless the author specifies otherwise (those who like freebies can give themselves an artifact bonus). Bonus artifacts can disrupt the game or make it more difficult (sometimes, it can even make it easier, if it's your bonus). The same applies to enemy resources.
2. Why, if you adhere so strictly to the guide, didn't you take fire magic for Mograine on the 3rd day? After all, you chose a difficulty of 160%, and it would have been very desirable to do so! The value of fire magic is very high, especially if you're not an expert.
3. We don't go to the witch's hut "right-down" – the fire perk was removed in the latest version, because there's no need to complete the entire map with a berserker. So, we take water magic from the witch at the top.
And at 160%, I decided to play even without fire magic, because it's clearly impossible to follow the walkthrough even remotely in terms of time without any money.
What I think about the situation.
Why doesn't the enemy run to the resources, but attacks? The AI's behavior is not always clear to us, the players. Maybe you should have moved further away. Maybe WSW was just lucky that the enemy didn't attack.
vadust writes:
I don't know if it was reported or not, but you can "easily" capture Castle-in-the-Mountains by making the defending hero fall into the pit with the efreets below the castle. Is this right?
Dropping the green hero into the pit with the efreets is intentional.
Most likely, you need to try to open this guardian later, with a stronger hero and a larger army, and in the meantime, do something else. There is no single, absolutely correct step-by-step way to complete the game – different approaches are possible. Only the key objects and events should be exactly as the author intended.
Marmot
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I found videos from 6-7 authors... But in none of them was this town taken; they all passed by through the ifrit pits.
I tried to finish that day from your save several times, in different ways - it turned out like this: if you move away to the side, the enemy still runs out and kills our heroes, and if you go further down the road, if he can reach you, he will kill you. And only if you run away very far, the enemy does not attack, but also does not come out of the town; he just sits there. I skipped several days, but he still didn't come out; he's lazy. Most likely, it's better to wait and come there later - maybe then it will work out. It's a pity that the heroes don't have Camouflage: it would be possible to deceive the enemy so that he wouldn't attack.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
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It attacks if the hero stands on the central tile in front of the entrance.
Added 1 minute ago
Well, there's a way to bypass it. That is, the dwarves charge straight ahead (with axes and beer), and that's proof.
Added 1 minute ago
Well, there's a way to bypass it. That is, the dwarves charge straight ahead (with axes and beer), and that's proof.
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Here is the answer, actually. I said: a single-player walkthrough is not a dogma, but an example of how it can be done. The same applies to fire magic: WSW did not prohibit using it, and only with a very high level of skill and to satisfy one's ego can you complete the game without it.
I tried to finish that day from your save several times, in different ways - it turned out like this: if you move away, the enemy still runs out and kills our heroes, and if you move further down the road - if he can reach you, he will kill you. And only if you run away very far, the enemy does not attack, but also does not come out of the city, he just sits there. I skipped several days, but he still didn't come out, he's lazy. Most likely, it's better to wait and come there later - maybe then it will work out. It's a pity that the heroes don't have Camouflage: you could trick the enemy so that he wouldn't attack.
In the same situation, the computer can run in different directions, especially if there is a choice of where to run (artifacts, resources, mines, external dwellings, etc.). You can simply reload and see where it will run. It's worse if there is no choice of where to run (everything has been taken, there are no mines, etc.). But even here you can play around, sacrificing "random" heroes. Then, after going out and killing 1-2 weak units, the computer may run after your main hero. If it is afraid of the main hero, you can weaken the main hero, for example, by taking away archers or reducing combat stats.
In addition, it has also been noticed that loading the same save, but with HD+ or just HD, and/or with the SoD_SP utility, and/or different versions of the game's executable, the computer may behave differently! Either it attacks, or it just waits.
Therefore, you can also play around with switching game loading modes and catch what you need. This is especially noticeable on custom maps, for example, Ira the Mage, where the computer behaved simply terribly, not according to the Chinese scenarios, it did not want to attack in certain points of the map :)
But specifically on Paragon, in this situation, there were no problems with the computer running out: it ran out and was killed.
Marlo_Stanfield
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Just to be clear, here's how it looks with the Chinese speed boost.
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Actually, never mind, I got it to work. :D
Dirty_Player
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As far as I understand, players don’t hesitate to use any kind of bugs when playing through maps.
Marlo_Stanfield
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This depends both on the principles of a specific player and on the map itself. In some maps, the authors have предусмотрено the need to use different bugs during the playthrough.
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Personally, I don't use bugs that have been fixed in HD+. However, many AI features in Heroes can be considered bugs, such as the invisibility behind a firewall. But using them adds excitement to the battles, so I came to the conclusion stated at the beginning of the message. Moreover, most maps don't require the use of unfixed bugs from HD, but there are exceptions. And individual players can, of course, play by their own rules; there aren't really any strict standards here, as there are in online play.
Dirty_Player
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Some maps are designed so that players need to use different exploits to complete them.
Marlo_Stanfield
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I'm just curious about how different communities approach completing maps, even in Chinese or European ones.
But there's a very fine line here: what is a bug, and what is a feature? For example, is the AI's reaction to a Wall of Fire, or tactics involving keeping AI troops within the city walls (blocking the gates, using summoned elementals, or exploiting the strength of the AI archers), a bug or a feature? In my opinion, the Berserk "bug" should be considered in the same context as the examples listed; it's more of a feature that requires knowledge and skillful application. However, the "bugs" of Earthquake, Clone, and Sacrifice are different. Although, it's unlikely that there can be any universal view on these things.
Marmot
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I believe that if a person plays through a map for fun, and especially if it's not the first time, but rather to add some variety or improve their personal record, then they should be allowed to use bugs if they want. Or if the map is designed in such a way that some, or even all, battles can only be won using bugs. But in a tournament, using bugs is, of course, the same as cheating.
There are also cases where a technique is used that is neither a bug nor a cheat, but greatly simplifies the gameplay, at least at a certain stage. Here's an example (to avoid provoking other players, I won't say who and on which map did this): if the author allows the type of enemy race to be randomly assigned, this player set the same race for all enemies, and by the end of the game, when all these cities were under his control, he already had a powerful army.
Regarding the video of the guy who completed "Wayfarer" in 70 months, I had a thought yesterday: I saw in the discussion that he was not the only one who had difficulty finding 90000 ore for the gate guardian. It is likely that this guy simply couldn't find where to get it and just accumulated resources and exchanged them for ore. Then it's clear why it took so much time. Fortunately, I thought that the author had provided a way to obtain ore, and I was right: I have already dealt with this guardian. Now, however, I need to find the diplomatic artifacts to continue. At least, it's good that I don't have to spend a long time anywhere to accumulate resources or troops, so the pace doesn't slow down.
There are also cases where a technique is used that is neither a bug nor a cheat, but greatly simplifies the gameplay, at least at a certain stage. Here's an example (to avoid provoking other players, I won't say who and on which map did this): if the author allows the type of enemy race to be randomly assigned, this player set the same race for all enemies, and by the end of the game, when all these cities were under his control, he already had a powerful army.
Regarding the video of the guy who completed "Wayfarer" in 70 months, I had a thought yesterday: I saw in the discussion that he was not the only one who had difficulty finding 90000 ore for the gate guardian. It is likely that this guy simply couldn't find where to get it and just accumulated resources and exchanged them for ore. Then it's clear why it took so much time. Fortunately, I thought that the author had provided a way to obtain ore, and I was right: I have already dealt with this guardian. Now, however, I need to find the diplomatic artifacts to continue. At least, it's good that I don't have to spend a long time anywhere to accumulate resources or troops, so the pace doesn't slow down.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
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I believe: if a person is playing a map for pleasure, and especially if it's not their first time, but they want to add some variety or improve their personal record, then they should feel free to use bugs if they wish.
Agreed 100%. It's just that when someone uses the Admiral's Hat and then writes "you're all losers, I beat the map in a week," it looks comical :)
IMO, a pleasure walkthrough means do whatever you want, even turn on cheat codes right away.
For me personally, after beating a couple of hardcore maps and gaining experience, I want to tackle the next map for speed, but without bug abuse — just through logistics, tempo, fast captures, solving puzzles, and so on. All of this is roughly in line with HeroesWorld rules, so to speak.
Regarding the video of the guy who completed "Wayfarer" in 70 months, I had a thought yesterday: I saw in the discussion that he wasn't the only one who had trouble finding 90000 ore for the passage guardian. This guy probably just didn't find where to get it and simply hoarded resources and exchanged them for ore. That explains it: of course, it took an immense amount of time. Thankfully, I figured the map maker had foreseen ore acquisition, and I wasn't mistaken — I've already eliminated that guardian. Now, though, I need to find diplomatic artifacts to proceed further. At least it's good that I don't have to sit around anywhere for a long time to accumulate resources or troops, so the pace doesn't slow down.
Chances are that guy just didn't use the map editor, though on such maps you can periodically do so.
Generally, there's a difference: using the editor or not. You can play blind for fun (there are enthusiasts like that), regardless of how long the walkthrough takes.
And there's the option of strictly following the map editor, thus GREATLY speeding up the pace and drastically reducing completion time. IMO, the second option is more interesting to me.
Not to mention that many don't have the wonderful Prospector program (which was a revelation for me a couple of weeks ago :)
Added after 6 minutes
I'm just curious how maps are typically played in various communities, even the Chinese or European ones.
So far, this site discusses Chinese gamers the most, because they have step-by-step walkthroughs of certain maps showing how specific tasks are solved.
As for other communities, I also spent some time browsing Polish sites looking for info on the Limes Inferior map, since it interested me back then.
And of course, I have to read heroescommunity.com from time to time.
Interesting what they think about us :)
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I recently tested a battle – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq9nI-nTEQU&feature=youtu.be
It’s possible to win even with 2 harpies, but it depends on the damage RNG, so I decided to leave only one; in this case, we don’t take any damage at all.
This only works if the harpy occupies the central cell; the problem is that you need to manage to make it do so. It also worked this way, but it’s more complicated: https://imgur.com/a/muiuf
In principle, this can also be considered an exploit, but if you fix everything, the game might not be as interesting.
It’s possible to win even with 2 harpies, but it depends on the damage RNG, so I decided to leave only one; in this case, we don’t take any damage at all.
This only works if the harpy occupies the central cell; the problem is that you need to manage to make it do so. It also worked this way, but it’s more complicated: https://imgur.com/a/muiuf
In principle, this can also be considered an exploit, but if you fix everything, the game might not be as interesting.
Marmot
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I spent some more time browsing Polish websites, looking for information about the map...
Well, and of course, I have to read heroescommunity.com.
It's interesting what they think about us :)
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I recently tested a battle... You can win even if there are 2 harpies, but here it's already RNG for damage.
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)