Bay of Destiny — Maps: Tribes of the East

Subjugator

10 years ago

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Sorry, I forgot to upload the new version:D
Well, personally, the AI Demon defeats the AI Elf in 90% of cases. It's like this: if the Demon quickly gathers the Dragon set, the Horseshoe, and the Ring of Speed, then the victory is assured. As I already said, each faction has its own advantages. I personally love the Dark Elves and especially Rai'lag. In my opinion, he is the best hero in all of Ashan.:cool:

masgak

10 years ago

http://rghost.ru/7PjHzmhCN

In reply to Subjugator

13га

10 years ago

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Subjugator

Personally, the AI Demon defeats the AI Elf in 90% of cases.

This happens due to the specific development of the Town Enhancement AI. The computer builds the Town Enhancement magic tower in the castle last, so the battles between demons and Town Enhancements are based on the number of troops. Whoever has more troops will obviously win.
The proposed changes will still leave the map as a quasi-multiplayer experience. A person playing as any faction will easily defeat the AI; they will be the only ones who can move around the entire map. In a 2-player game, the one who chooses Dungeon will have a significant advantage. And if both play as Dungeon, Town Enhancements will be the clear leaders (I agree with Bravo1853). They will gather artifacts faster.
P.S. The shield from the dragon set can be obtained without going through its guard.

Irina19

10 years ago

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I'd like to clarify my previous comment. I was talking about weakening the guardians between worlds not to make it easier for the player to pass, but to make it easier for the AI to pass. I played as all the factions. The AI only broke through the guardians once out of five times. That was when I was playing as the Stronghold. There, of course, I had to deal with the neighbors for the longest time, because they were pressing in from two sides.

crusadergame

10 years ago

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Thank you for the interesting map; it's always enjoyable to play when there's a departure from the standard theme, and the non-standard heroes added to the experience. We really liked the map and played it with my wife, choosing Haven and Academy. I recommend everyone to try playing it.

In reply to crusadergame

Subjugator

10 years ago

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It’s good to hear that. To be honest, I didn’t expect my first map to be so successful, given all the imbalances in its balance, gameplay, and so on.

In reply to Subjugator

SRD

10 years ago

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I played it a bit (but didn't finish it, to be honest).
Here's what I can say:
1. I liked the design – it's very good for beginners.
2. Balance is definitely needed.
3. The factions are defined because they are tied to territories, but here's how you could approach it: make specific cities available to a specific player (for example, on human territories, you could have Academy, and on Orc territories, you could have Necropolis. That is, allow the player to choose a city, but not any of the eight, only the one that suits the landscape).
4. It's unclear why there are so many cities in a small area, protected by strong defenses (the option of a quick game, where a large number of cities plays a role, doesn't work here). Everyone will have time to build them up, and the cities, due to their location, don't have much strategic value. You could limit it to one or two cities, and if you want larger armies, you could increase the number of dwellings.

In reply to SRD

Subjugator

10 years ago

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To be frank: if someone really loves Haven, Wizards, or Necromancers and despises other factions, then I'll just say it straight – I won't make other factions available:smile38: :smile38: :smile38:. If it doesn't suit you, the map editor is there to help;)
Regarding changing the number of towns – I initially wanted to add Haven near Humans or Necromancers in the Dungeon, but then there would be even more imbalances – and I wanted to move away from the traditional "mirror" multiplayer map. Changing the number of towns and factions means completely redesigning the map. One of the main goals of "Tides of Fate" is a non-standard strategy and well-thought-out design. Although, I might have been too hasty about the number of towns... In general, thank you for your comment.

In reply to Subjugator

SRD

10 years ago

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Subjugator

To be frank: if someone really loves Sylvan, Mages, or Necromancers and despises other factions, then I'll say it straight – I won't make other factions available.

What does this have to do with anything, :confused: There was no talk of disdain – the beauty of the game lies in its diversity. It's absurd to play as the same race – with the possibility of choosing a town, the variability of map completion and the strategy used increases, as well as the replayability of the map (by changing the player or the starting position). It would be good to have at least two towns, and perhaps weaken the units on the border of territories – it turned out that the guard (units of level 7, 20-49 units) was many times stronger than the opposing player, that is, the main difficulty was in defeating the mobs, not in winning against the player.

In reply to SRD

Bravo1853

10 years ago

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Played the map. Difficulty level – hero. For the Tower faction.

I played without much thought, just moving around and defeating everyone. I won against the bots without much difficulty. Three Castles are clearly unnecessary; it’s problematic to build them, and even more difficult to recruit an army from all of them. It’s better to leave one Castle, but then it’s necessary to weaken the outposts. Three Tower faction shops clearly make a difference; I bought all the necessary artifacts, found a ring of speed, and a staff, and all the battles are now easy. The Knight faction is even better; you can train 21 paladins per week + a growth of 12. In the final, it’s possible to have 100+, and with Light magic, they are overpowered.

It would be worth removing the ring of speed. Also, the Dungeon is much poorer than the surface, so it’s more difficult for demons and the Tower faction to build up.

The final was very easy. I went to the Demon’s Castles, and as soon as I approached, I noticed that his main hero was already running towards mine, so I had to retreat. He killed all my other heroes and took over the Castle. The danger level was “low.” Everything was much easier with the other heroes. I uploaded a replay of the final and the outposts.

It would be good to add more trees and huts to the map, and also mentors to the neutral territories, so you don’t have to return every time. The Capitol should be removed at the beginning, as well as the Magistrate. Because of this, all the difficulty with resources on the hero level disappears, which reduces the interest in the game. Let the Castles start with a Fort and a Tavern, and maybe add a Market. In general, I repeat, it’s better to have only one Castle. It is necessary to remove the overpowered heroes. Also, I noticed that the level 2 dwelling to the right of the Tower faction Castle has no guards; in fact, there are monsters there, but they don’t block the entrance. There are too many stables.

Later, I think I’ll play as the Knights and see how it is to play with them.

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In reply to Bravo1853

Subjugator

10 years ago

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Hmm, I don't even know what to say... Some say it would be good to leave three towns, others say two is enough, and for some, even one is sufficient... Okay, I'll remove the third castle soon, add more dwellings (soon doesn't mean today), weaken the guard, add mentors to the map, move some artifacts under the protection of phoenixes, and I won't add any more trees – there's already a lot of experience to be gained. Honestly, I'm very sorry that the idea with 3 towns didn't work out. :smile39:

In reply to Subjugator

Bravo1853

10 years ago

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Subjugator

Hmm, I don't even know what to say... Some say it would be good to leave three towns, others say two is enough, and a third would be happy with just one... Okay, I'll remove the third castle soon, add more dwellings (soon doesn't mean today), weaken the guards, add mentors to the map, move some artifacts under the protection of phoenixes, I won't add trees - there's already a lot of experience. Honestly, I'm very sorry that the idea with 3 towns didn't work out.:smile39:

Three towns don't work out because knights become overpowered, orcs start on almost/at the first level of wrath. And the other factions are a bit underpowered, except for the Tribes of the East. And because of this, the balance is broken. Phoenixes are light units, it's best to remove the ring of speed completely. Enough dwellings, no more are needed. With huge armies, some skills become irrelevant.

In reply to Bravo1853

SRD

10 years ago

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Bravo1853

Three cities don't justify themselves because Knights become overpowered.

Not at all because of that; if there were Mages instead of humans, it still wouldn't justify having three cities and wouldn't change the strategic aspect. The main problem is that maps with a large number of cities are usually very dynamic, and this map cannot be described as such.

Bravo1853

The Ring of Speed should be removed completely.

There's no extreme imbalance in this artifact, but I would completely remove the Sandro's Cloak from the game. Dark magic is already overpowered, and this just adds to it... In general, in terms of balance, I think it would be more logical to prohibit building an artifact shop in all cities.

Bravo1853

Two dwellings are enough; more are not needed. With huge armies, some skills become irrelevant.

That's nonsense. The concept of "knowing how to play Heroes" includes knowing how to properly develop a hero depending on the type of map. Some skills are beneficial on small maps, others on large maps, and so on. If that weren't the case, the same universal hero development option would always win, and then the question would arise: "Why are other skills even needed if this universal option is the best?" Let's just remove half of the skill wheel... Adding dwellings is perfectly acceptable, and they won't create any imbalance with the Knights if you're so afraid of them (and if you reduce the number of gold mines and remove the Capitol, even more so). I think it's okay to leave one Mentor in each capital; having them on every corner is also unnecessary. I would even suggest removing all Mentors and placing one under guard in neutral territories; this would immediately increase its strategic value

In reply to SRD

Bravo1853

10 years ago

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Not at all because of that; if there were mages instead of humans, it still wouldn't justify having three cities, and it wouldn't change the strategic aspect. That is, the main problem is that maps with a large number of cities are usually very dynamic maps, and this map cannot be called that.

And the fact that in the late game, Knights come out with 100+ Knights, is it not because of that? Let's leave out this "If it were like that," and look at what we have. I see a Knight, and if a person plays as them with a more or less normal level of skill, they will crush any difficulty bot.

There is no extreme imbalance in this artifact, but I would remove Sandro's Cloak from the game altogether. Dark magic is already imba on its own, and this just adds to it... And in general, in terms of balance, I think it would be more logical to prohibit building an artifact shop in all cities.

A cheat artifact, in a word. Sandro's Cloak is less effective, only in some specific situations. But the Ring is relevant everywhere. And if you add mass haste + the Ring of Swiftness, as well as the Staff, the scales will be in your favor. And darkness is also quite easily countered by light, even by the same Knights.

That's nonsense. The concept of "knowing how to play Heroes" includes knowing how to properly develop a hero depending on the type of map. Some skills are beneficial on small maps, others on large maps, and so on. If that weren't the case, then the same universal hero development option would always win, and then the question would arise: "Why are other skills even needed if this universal option is the best?" Let's just throw out half of the skill wheel...
Adding dwellings is quite possible, and they won't create any imbalance with the Knights if you're so afraid of them (and if you reduce the number of gold mines and remove the Capitol, then even more so).
I think the Mentor can be left with one per capital city; having them on every corner is also unnecessary. I would even suggest removing all Mentors and placing one under guard in neutral territories; this would immediately increase its strategic value.

Okay, let's say I gather legions of an army; would machines still be relevant? What about Chaos, Summoning? I'm not afraid of Knights, but in this scenario, at least you need to be wary of them. Also, I want to correct you: development depends not only on the map but also on the opponent; you wouldn't be developing Dark magic without Sandro's Cloak against Necropolis, would you? It's hard to imagine an Orc without machines, but with such huge armies, this skill becomes irrelevant. A larger number of Mentors is needed so that you don't have to run across the entire map to change your build before the final, and then run just as far to the opponent.

In reply to Bravo1853

SRD

10 years ago

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Bravo1853

Or is it that the Knight faction starts with 100+ Knights, and that's not the reason? Let's avoid these "what ifs" and look at what actually exists. I see a Knight faction that, if played by someone with a decent skill level, will crush any bot, regardless of difficulty.

We're discussing the map, not the balance of the game between factions. If you have these complaints, you should address them in the mods section, not with the map creators.

Bravo1853

And if you add mass haste + the ring of swiftness, as well as the staff, the scales will tip in your favor. And Darkness is also quite easily countered by Light, even with the Knights.

We're looking at a single artifact, not what's added to it. The staff is equal in power to the ring, and I don't understand why you're not suggesting removing it as well. Mass haste and mass slow can be used by anyone, regardless of whether they have the ring or not, and whether or not they use these spells is up to them. So, the argument "And if you add it..." is empty and meaningless.

Bravo1853

Okay, let's say I build up legions of an army, would machines still be relevant? What about Chaos, summoning?

And this is what I wrote:

SRD

...the ability to play Heroes includes the ability to properly develop a hero depending on the type of map. Some skills are beneficial on small maps, others on large maps, and so on. If this weren't the case, the same universal hero build would always be used, and then the question would arise - "why are other skills even needed if this universal build is the best?", so let's just throw out half of the skill wheel...

Bravo1853

I also want to correct you that the development depends not only on the map, but also on the opponent.

Did I say otherwise? - Of course, the development depends on the opponent, but we are considering the type of map in a strategic sense, not in terms of the opponent's race. That's why I didn't mention this argument - we could end up discussing hero development and deviate from the main topic - the map and its strategic part. So, there was nothing to correct - it's irrelevant to the discussion; we're discussing the map's strategy.

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