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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.
And inflating the number of moves to the exact amount that a cheat gives (or even higher) is not an exploit – it’s a BUG.
NWCNEBUCHADNEZZAR - let's go:D
Added after 41 seconds wowa
AK simply saved (as much as it could at that time) the game from being ruined.
and its leniency towards Reddit is due to an awareness of its own miscalculation, which is quite understandable – after all, AK is not a professional legislative organization.
There can be no more truth than in your words! 100% accurate:smile12:
With all due respect (and this is not just a formality). I am surprised by something else, Petya, that instead of looking at the essence and trying to understand what I am trying to say, you are nitpicking at common phrases that are intended to complement the meaning of the post, but do not form its basis. I will explain, if you really don't understand this figure of speech. I will explain, it is quite common. Generally accepted moral values are what a certain group of people has agreed to consider moral values accepted in this group. These values have developed throughout human history and continue to change to this day. However, different groups – peoples, religions, ages, professions – have different moral values. They are not just different, but sometimes directly contradict each other. Examples for clarity: - walking around without clothes is immoral. However, a 20-year-old girl with a bare midriff, bra straps peeking out from under her top, and in a miniskirt will cause extreme indignation and misunderstanding in some old woman in a shapeless dress and headscarf, and vice versa. This applies to one region; if we take this example in the context of countries, then in Africa/Australia, it is quite popular (in the least developed countries and remote settlements) to walk topless, regardless of gender. There are countless examples of this kind of appearance. - the same picture is in sports: someone kicked the ball out when they saw that the opponent was lying on the grass, someone thought that he was clearly faking it or did not want to spoil a promising attack and continued to play, rightly believing that there is a referee on the field and if he did not stop the game, it means that you can play. Similar examples can be given from all spheres of life, but I think the essence has become clearer. This is what I was trying to convey above.
- my post was due to the incomprehensible decisions of the AC (Arbitration Committee) – it did not provide any arguments or explanations (at least in the thread) for its decision. - the misunderstanding is caused by the following things: there are simple facts that the AC should have taken into account: a) Nitro and Redwhite knew about the admiral's hat. They were on equal terms! I am most interested in whether the AC took this into account? And why is everyone ignoring it, those who support the AC's decision to replay or even award Red a loss? b) There have already been precedents of this kind of abuse, and they have been discussed on the forum. The AC does not live in the wilderness, and I think they saw the thread, if not all members of the AC, then at least most of them. c) I don't know about you, but I personally haven't noticed any sadomasochistic tendencies in Nitro or a desire to live through self-flagellation, etc. He weighed all the pros and cons and wrote that he recognizes the defeat. And I suspect it was not easy to do, after all, it was not a friendly game, but a game for a place in the group of a serious tournament, and the AC kindly brought a replay on a silver platter. It is up to the participant in this game to judge the fairness/unfairness of the AC's decision, and he has made his choice.
Nevertheless, you somehow decide that I and my generation are bookworms. I may be wrong, but we are the same generation as you :). And I have never smoked books and do not plan to in the foreseeable future ;) Again, I am not touching on the moral aspect of the issue; I did not even express my opinion on what I think about it in terms of morality, because it does not affect the essence and, accordingly, I did not say anywhere that morality is crap :confused: Morality is everything! :smile13:
I'm not nitpicking; I'm trying to understand. But the more I read, the more I read subjectivism, presented as facts. For example, you decided that Nitro admitted that he lost, but it turned out to be your guess. I, for example, had no idea about this bug, or about its discussion, or about the fact that someone from the AC allowed it, and I am not in the AC because of a lack of knowledge of the rules and skill in the game. Believe me, there are no job responsibilities in the AC that imply continuous systematic monitoring of the correctness of the rules. The requirements are too high, the assumptions are not justified.
I like the numerous expert opinions that the rules were not formally violated, but again, these are just subjective opinions. They have watched too many American movies about courts and lawyers, and now everyone has become a successful lawyer, but has at least a tenth of them even looked at the civil code? Not every lawyer can explain the rule of law, the hierarchy of laws and regulations, the principles of operation of norms, the difference between notes, recommendations and clarifications, but all the protesting forum users definitely know that a note is not more important than the rules and have accurately determined which of the rules has the highest force. Well, never mind, it's not important anymore. You think so, think so.
I have been interested in another question for a long time. "Morality is everything," but what should we do with it if it is only on TV (and even now, very rarely), and the younger generation, I think, does not really know it. The conclusion is obvious: if the older generation puts morality first, then priorities have shifted significantly now. The current young generation does not see value in it; a young person cannot or does not want to figure out whether he is acting honestly or not, fairly or not, there is no internal core that subconsciously gives the command of how to act in certain cases. I would call it spiritual philistinism, a decline in the value set, or something like that. We need clear rules that must be strictly followed, so that you don't have any questions later, and you are ready to grind your teeth against the wall for these rules, no matter what. And that's more interesting! I encounter this more and more often, and there is a forecast that people of Generation Z (born after 2003) will not be able to take a step without a standard or rule and will want to put the law above everything. Well, we'll see.
Timur, your example about different interpretations of the same values in the context of different groups – nakedness is normal in some places, bad in others. Something tells me that in our group, no one will be against a 20-year-old girl with a bare midriff; I think she will only cause positive emotions ;) I, on the other hand, emphasized your conclusion about different understandings of morality within one group. It's a little off-topic, but overall it doesn't matter; we can stop the dialogue. I basically understand your position. Some are happy that they defended their interpretation of the law, while others feel better that the principles of honesty are respected.
And about smoking books – it's just a metaphor, and how it is perceived depends on individual subjectivism.
First, he asks not to engage in demagoguery, and then he writes lengthy posts about the loss of moral values in the younger generation. Piterius
I like the numerous expert opinions that, formally, the rules were not violated, but again, these are just subjective opinions. They've watched too many American movies about courts and lawyers, and now everyone thinks they're a successful lawyer, but has even a tenth of them even looked at the civil code? Not every lawyer can explain the rule of law, the hierarchy of laws and regulations, the principles of how norms work, the difference between notes, recommendations, and explanations, but all the protesting forum users definitely know that a note is not more important than the rules and have definitely determined which of the rules has the highest authority. Well, never mind, it's not that important anymore. If you think so, think so.
Well, what else is left besides subjective opinions? Given the vagueness of the wording of the decision issued by the Arbitration Committee. In this thread, there are two questions from the participants themselves. The first was asked by Nitro at the very beginning: did Redwhite violate the fair play rule? The second, from Redwhite after the decision was published: according to which rule was a rematch ordered? The Arbitration Committee did not provide an official answer to either of these questions; it looks as if the Arbitration Committee did not follow the rules at all when making the decision. It seems to me that if the answers to these questions had been given immediately, many further discussions could have been avoided.
And regarding "If you think so, think so" - I would like more details. We still have to play by these rules, and I would like the understanding of the rules to be the same for ordinary players and representatives of the Arbitration Committee. Do you think that the comments on the rules have more weight than the rules themselves? Or will we twist these norms depending on the situation? How does this dismissive attitude towards the rules that apply to everyone relate to high moral qualities?
Well, what else is left besides subjective opinions?
That's exactly what was said. American movies, lawyers, courts, civil code, legal professionals who can explain the rule of law and all that, but not the rules themselves. And certainly not forum users who play by these rules, otherwise it's just subjectivism :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/ За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
The Arbitration Committee likely made this decision to avoid problems or controversy. Now, they can't reverse it, otherwise, it wouldn't be the Arbitration Committee. The only constructive action they can take now, in my opinion, is to conduct a poll on the first page. If there are 2/3+ votes in one direction, then they can consider making changes. Right now, it's just kitchen politics.
First, he asks not to engage in demagoguery, and then he writes lengthy posts about the loss of moral values in the younger generation.
This is another case of "25 again." I wasn't talking about a loss, but about a gradual erosion. I don't understand what else I need to explain to you. You've made up your own mind.Sanin
Do you think that comments on the rules carry more weight than the rules themselves?
You drew that conclusion yourself.Sanin
Or are we going to interpret these rules depending on the situation?
You drew that conclusion based on your own previous conclusion.Sanin
How does this dismissive attitude towards common rules for everyone relate to high moral qualities?
And he presented it on behalf of the group.Sanin
We still have to play by these rules, and we would like the understanding of the rules to be the same for ordinary players and representatives of the administration.
And to that Sanin
Well, what else is left besides subjective opinions?
All that remains is to suggest again not to give them too much weight. And especially not to present them as universal. What made you think that the replay was scheduled because of a fairly won game? I'm already lost in your assumptions; please excuse me from this.
He drew his own conclusion based on his own conclusion
And presented it on behalf of the group
And for this
I didn't draw a conclusion; I hoped to get answers to these questions, addressed to you personally. "Don't make assumptions for me" (c)
Added 13 minutes later Piterius
What made you think that the replay was scheduled because of a fairly won game?
I already wrote about why I thought so. And since you ignored the main point of my message again, I will repeat: 1) Did Redwait violate the rules of fair play? 2) According to which rule was the replay scheduled?
1) Did Redwhite violate the rules of fair play? 2) Under which rule was a rematch ordered?
If the answer to the first question is yes, then the answer to the second question automatically follows.
Here is an attempt at an answer, although not entirely unambiguous, because the concept of fairness is still based on subjectivity: After the actions in question, the game as such was effectively ruined in that match. There was neither unfair play nor fair play, there was no game at all. Instead, there was a fixation of an infinite resource advantage per turn, obtained through a subjective interpretation of the flaws in the rules. And no actions by the opponent could prevent this. The game implies competition, until the very end, until the game objective is achieved, equivalent to the victory of one of the parties, or until someone surrenders. But where was the competition? And since there was no game, there is no point in talking about the result. What caused the game to turn into a farce? It was due to actions that were supposedly not prohibited, although their legitimacy is highly questionable even from the point of view of the rules in effect at that time. But what is undeniable is that the actions are equivalent to entering codes, which is prohibited in Multiplayer. And even in Single Player, this is marked as cheating if the result is recorded in the table.
Therefore, recording this "victory" within the framework of the tournament would be unfair. Or, to put it another way, presenting the result of a non-game as the result of a game is unfair, no matter how you look at it. Everything else is just sophistry
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"
to Sanin, what will happen according to the rules if someone on XL+U with advanced air uses 3 Dimension Door with one hero?
so as not to go too far, here are the rules right away: 2.4. Dimension Door spell: - on all maps except for XL+U size maps, it can be used by each hero no more than 1 time per day; - on XL+U size maps, it can be used by each hero 2 times per day with expert air magic.
I like the numerous expert opinions that, formally, the rules haven't been violated, but again, these are just subjective opinions. They've watched too many American movies about courts and lawyers, and now everyone thinks they're a successful lawyer, but has even a tenth of them even glanced at the civil code? Not every lawyer can explain the rule of law, the hierarchy of laws and regulations, the principles of how norms work, the difference between notes, recommendations, and explanations, but all the striking forum users definitely know that a note is no more important than the rules and have definitely determined which of the rules has the highest authority. Well, never mind, it's not that important anymore. If you think so, then think so.
=
I want to summarize: 1) The Administration Committee wrote the rules for all players in the community, but they have the right to make decisions regardless of their rules. After all, the rules are supposedly written with common sense in mind. 2) All decisions of the Administration Committee are not subject to discussion, because the Administration Committee is the most respected and wise people in the community. Have I understood everything correctly? If not, please write down the ultimate truth, and I won't have any more questions.
Vova, don't get upset. Something might be wrong with this guy, or he’s just messing around. My posts contain answers to questions, and he was the first to comment on one of them, where I explained the reasoning behind the decision. He seems to want to keep arguing about it: rolleyes:
to Sanin, what happens according to the rules if someone on XL+U with advanced air magic uses 3 Dimension Doors with one hero?
so we don't have to look far, here are the rules: 2.4. Dimension Door spell: - on all maps except for XL+U size maps, it can be used by each hero no more than 1 time per day; - on XL+U size maps, it can be used by each hero 2 times per day with expert air magic.
(couldn't hold it back anymore) oh, how many butts are going to explode now...
Vova, don't break my heart. Something is wrong with this guy, or he's just messing around. My posts contain answers to questions, and he was the first to comment on one of them, where I explained the basis for the AK's decision. Does this person really want to keep arguing? :rolleyes:
Well, maybe it will be possible to show him that behind the tree, which captures his gaze, lies the entire forest.
And by the way, Skorpa's example regarding Dimension Door – if you think about it, then based on the current rules: -- the ban on 1 Dimension Door per turn does not apply to XL; -- for expert air magic, 2 Dimension Doors are allowed – well, you used expert air magic, so suffer; -- without air magic, you can only do one per day; -- but basic and advanced air magic allow you to cast as many as you like, since these cases are not specified in the rules; ....just like with Spell Arena)))
Is this absurd? Of course! But here, no one denies common sense or tries to kill it off with three jumps from Advanced Air, and then refers to formal rules :confused:
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"
Okay, maybe it wasn't clear enough. Let me try again: 2.13 is a prohibitive rule, the comments to 2.13 are a permissive rule, and 2.14 is a prohibitive-permissive rule. For some reason, the defenders decided that 2.14 is the key rule with the highest authority. In reality, all rules are equal; at best, we can talk about a conflict of rules. But it's definitely not the case that "he didn't violate anything." This is like ignoring the amendments to the rules that are developed for different scenarios. And although I don't see a conflict of rules here, or rather, someone does see it, and even if we assume that there is one, then the higher authority should determine the rule that has the highest authority for a specific situation, and then make changes or additions so that these conflicts do not arise. In general, if all the rules were perfect, why would we need the Arbitration Committee? Why would we need courts if laws are in effect in the world? Of course, we could have voted for them, but we voted for a rematch. This is exactly the situation where the rules are not enough to make the decision obvious. I'll repeat what some forum users said: no matter what the decision, someone would be unhappy. And the saddest thing is that the further we go, the more questions and demands there will be. It's unpleasant when this turns into a squabble and a circus, but it has become an integral part of the world. By the way, in private messages, people are writing that Red is just a friend or a cool guy, and the rules, therefore, are just something to be bent, something to engage in nitpicking...