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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to The_
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#1047
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The_


I'm not sure I fully understood the meaning of "about this and that, very very." But if you're talking about the fact that the AC would have made a decision about the validity of the result and submitted a proposal to ban the Admiral's Hat in the future, then in my opinion, that would have been the most correct thing to do. As they say, everyone gets what they want. (even if there was a vote, the majority would have supported this idea, although this is, of course, an absolutely unimportant point).
For starters, yes, I'm not 80% of the community, but I am one of those people on this forum who had no idea about this bug and definitely not the only one, believe me. Your sarcasm is good, and I can also come up with elaborate phrases. For example, people who express sarcastic remarks towards other people (a person) who are quite serious and raise a question about an urgent problem are at least inappropriate. And in the end, once again, I heard an incomplete answer, but never mind, I repeat, "the AC WOULD NOT HAVE LAUGHED" (I want to hear your opinion) in the event that a person who used a BUG was awarded the victory, and immediately a clause was added to the rules prohibiting the BUG and technical defeat or even more severe penalties in case of using the same BUG. In other words, today I can use it, and tomorrow you will be disqualified from tournaments for a year for the same thing, what do you think about that?!

P.S.
To Lizard
By the way, Kostya, I remembered about Maradona, yes, he scored with his hand, and everyone has known about it for a long time, but by the way, nothing has changed so far, Messi, if I'm not mistaken, also showed our generation the same goal with his hand:cool:

лето 2012.
In reply to scorp
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#1048
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scorp
I understand that if you write something like that, your opinion is that using SHA is fair...logical? (since you're doubting and want to hold a vote:smile20:). After that, no further comments...
No, it's not logical.
I've already shared my opinion about SHA.
A vote would be a formality. But even if it were held, it wouldn't hurt anyone, and as I've already written, it's not that important.
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#1049
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Yeah, the absurdity is growing.

Tell me, oh Tim and Dim, did Reddi kill the meaning and essence of the Game with his mysterious move?

For example, Berserk was countered by the epic "antimagic on ducks"))) AoTD+KS is countered by archers, mages, and parameters.
Infinite ammunition for the ballista in PvP is just ridiculous!

So, there's no comparison.
Reddi's move is not only disrespectful to the opponent, but it's DISRESPECTFUL TO THE GAME ITSELF.
Those who think otherwise also disrespect the game.
And there's really nothing to argue about.
Personal quirks in one's head, even if supported by powerful demagogic skills, are a personal matter.
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny
In reply to Dark
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#1050
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darkello
To start, yes, I'm not 80% of the community, but I'm one of those people on this forum who had no idea about this bug, and I'm definitely not the only one, believe me. Your sarcasm is good, and I can also come up with grand phrases.
That's why I wrote that almost everyone knew about it, in my opinion. I don't think either of us has exact data. With your phrase, "I didn't know about this bug, but almost everyone did?!" you're provoking sarcasm for quite understandable reasons. I don't know how else to explain it more clearly. I don't know what would have happened with a different decision from the AC, but in my opinion, it would have been more logical and balanced. I've already given three facts that are persistently being ignored. It's no longer relevant to copy and paste them, and it's really funny. Answering your question with an analogy, cigarettes used to be sold everywhere, even in kiosks selling ice cream. Now, cigarettes are sold either in supermarkets or in specialized stores. However, no one is suing those ice cream kiosks or imposing sanctions on them. I hope I answered your question clearly.
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In reply to wowa
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#1051
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wowa
Yeah, the absurdity is growing.

Tell me, oh Tim and Dim, did Reddit kill the meaning and essence of the Game with his mysterious move?

For example, Berserk used to be countered by the epic "anti-magic on ducks"))) AoTD+KS is countered by archers, mosh, parameters.
Infinite ballista ammo in PvP is just ridiculous!

So there's no comparison.
Reddit's performance is not only disrespect to the opponent, it's DISRESPECT TO THE GAME ITSELF.
Those who think otherwise also disrespect the game(((
And there's really nothing to argue about.
Personal quirks in the head, even if supported by powerful demagogic skills, are a personal matter for everyone.
+1
In my opinion, after such discussions, you begin to understand more and more who is who in life, even if you don't know people in person:cool:

лето 2012.
In reply to Dark
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#1052
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darkello
+1
In my opinion, after such arguments, you start to understand more and more who is who in life, even if you don't know people in person:cool:

The most annoying thing is the far-fetched comparisons.
Even after Maradona's handball goal, the English could have equalized, although it would have been difficult for them, but they still could have.
But if someone had shot the English team from the stands – and not just any random person, but the Argentine coach himself – would they have awarded Argentina the victory? Because you won't find the word "machine gun" in the RULES OF FOOTBALL... although, of course, the coach would later be put in jail for 15 days for disturbing the peace, but what wouldn't you do for a semi-final?)))
This is a more or less adequate analogy to that "well-known feature."
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny
In reply to The_
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#1053
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The_
That's why I said that almost everyone knew, in my opinion, and I don't think either of us has exact data. With your phrase, "I didn't know about this bug, but almost everyone did?!" you're provoking sarcasm for perfectly understandable reasons.
I don't know how else to explain it more clearly. I don't know what would have happened with a different decision from the Arbitration Committee, but in my opinion, it would have been more logical and well-considered. I've already given three facts that are persistently being ignored. It's no longer relevant to copy and paste them, and it's actually funny.
Answering your question with an analogy: cigarettes used to be sold everywhere, even in ice cream kiosks. Now, cigarettes are sold either in supermarkets or in specialized stores. However, no one is suing those ice cream kiosks or imposing sanctions on them.
I hope I've answered your question clearly.
I wasn't being sarcastic in the posts above; if it seemed that way, it wasn't intentional!
Well, we've finally arrived at the topic I was leading to. That is, you're comparing the Heroesworld.ru resource to a State (e.g., the Russian Federation), in which normative legal acts and many other documents are adopted by elected leaders, in which it is stipulated how to act in certain situations, the measure of responsibility is stipulated in case of violation of these laws or commission of illegal actions. It is stipulated who decides what: JUDGES - one thing, POLICE - another, PROSECUTORS - a third, etc. (I'm talking about powers), oh yes, I forgot that in addition to the responsibility that lies with the above-mentioned people, they are also paid money - that's why it exists. Comparing it to our judges, who work for free and do their best - at least that's what I think - and make decisions that, under all the conditions they have, are either 100% correct or at least 90% correct, in my opinion, is not possible.

лето 2012.
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#1054
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Timur, I think you don't understand the difference between a bug and an abuse/exploit.
In reply to wowa
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#1055
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wowa
The most annoying thing is the far-fetched comparisons.
Even after Maradona's handball goal, the English could have still equalized, although it wouldn't have been easy, but they still could have.
But what if someone had shot the English team from the stands – and not just some random guy, but the Argentinian coach himself – would they have awarded Argentina the victory? Because you won't find the word "machine gun" in the RULES OF FOOTBALL... although, of course, the coach would have been put in jail for 15 days for disturbing the peace, but what wouldn't you do for a semi-final spot?)))
That's a more or less adequate analogy to this "well-known feature."
Well, that's criminal :D, but they could have tied his hands while digging a hole :smile15:
In reply to Dirty_Player
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#1056
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Dirty_Player
Timur, I think you don't understand the difference between a bug and an abuse/exploit.
Kostya, yes, I don't understand many things, that might be the case too, but in this situation, I don't understand the decision of the Arbitration Committee (AK), taking into account (although I swore not to repeat myself, but still, maybe someone will see it and answer at least one of the points):
a) Nitro and Redwhite knew about the Admiral's Hat. They were on equal footing! I'm most interested in whether the AK took this into account? And why are those who support the AK's decision to replay the game or even award Red a loss ignoring it?
b) There have already been precedents for this abuse, and they have been discussed on the forum. The AK doesn't live in the wilderness, and I think they saw the topic, if not all members of the AK, then at least most of them.
c) I don't know about you, but I personally haven't noticed any masochistic tendencies or a tendency to self-flagellation in Nitro.
He himself, weighing all the pros and cons, wrote that he recognizes the defeat. And I suspect it wasn't easy for him to do, after all, it wasn't a fun game, but a game for a place in a serious tournament group, and the AK kindly brought the replay on a silver platter. It is up to the participant of this game to judge the fairness/unfairness of the AK's decision, and he has made his choice.

Although, who am I kidding, it's much easier to give your assessment of another person, based on nothing, in order to strengthen your position as a knight :).

I've said it a hundred times, I haven't written or said anywhere, and I'm not going to express my personal opinion regarding the moral side of this act. It has nothing to do with the matter.

And in general, I'm amazed at how a conversation smoothly flows from one topic to another. I wouldn't be surprised if the discussion continues and, in a couple of pages, you move on to politics.
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In reply to The_
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#1057
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The_
...I don't understand the AK's decision...
AK simply saved the game (as much as it could at that time) from being ruined.

and its leniency towards Reddit is due to an awareness of its own miscalculation, which is quite understandable – after all, AK is not a professional legislative organization.
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny
In reply to The_
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#1058
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The_
Kostya, I don't understand a lot of things, and this might be one of them, but in this situation, I don't understand the decision of the Arbitration Committee, considering...
In many ways, my fault is that this situation wasn't stopped earlier, precisely because my point of view coincides with his, and as a judge, I gave the green light to its use. But I am not the final authority on Hv, especially in such a sensitive matter as the use of bugs. As you can see, the forum's opinion is divided, so no matter what decision is made, there won't be 100% satisfaction. I repeat, although I myself don't support overturning the result, I think it's a perfectly reasonable decision.
#1059
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I had a similar case in the old games on the portal. In a CM game, my empty town was captured with a new spawn, and the red rush wasn't counted because, at that time, the red rush rule stated "attacking the guard." After that incident, the rule was clarified, and the game result remained as it was. In the judging community, the interests and circumstances of all parties are taken into account. In this case, Nitro did not request a review of the results. That is, he did not pressure either the judge or the opponent. And that is important. Then everything becomes very simple – and with just one decision affirming the existing result, the interests of both parties would be taken into account. A truce, so to speak. The other side of this "case" is acting within the framework of fair play and, accordingly, may have consequences in that same area, rather than reviewing the main decision. It is unclear why the main result needed to be reviewed. In any case, if there had been a detailed justification and transparency, many arguments would have remained in the quiver. By the way, instead of those yellow cards or absences or missed games or other minor violations, you could punish with a ban (for example, as in Wargaming.net, deduct a certain amount from the starting amount or time, but this still needs to be implemented). And also, by the way. You can create many such cases with a timer. And there is not a word about it in the rules.
Summer 2013


In reply to The_
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#1060
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The_
a) Nitro and Redwhite knew about the admiral's hat. They were on equal footing! What I'm most curious about is whether the AC took this into account? And why does everyone who supports the AC's decision for a rematch or even awarding Red a defeat overlook this?
b) Precedents for this exploit have already occurred and been discussed on the forum, the AC doesn't live in the middle of nowhere, and I think if not all AC members saw that thread, then a large part certainly did.
c) I don't know about you, but I personally haven't noticed any sadomasochistic tendencies in Nitro, or an acceptance of life through self-flagellation and the like.
He himself, after weighing all the pros and cons, wrote that he accepts the defeat. And I suspect it was oh so hard to do, it was after all not a fun game, but a match for advancing from the group stage of a serious tournament, and on top of that the AC kindly offered a rematch on a silver platter. Who if not a participant in that game should judge the fairness/unfairness of the AC's decision, and he made his choice.
Timur, you are wrong (sic).
a) I did not know about the bug. I heard about it from Kobra when I was in St. Petersburg. And, Kobra won't let me lie, I was surprised that such a thing was even possible in official games on HeroesWorld. I didn't delve into the details, because I quickly realized it was an exploit and I was no longer interested in how to implement it. I will only say that if I had been making a decision about sanctions against a person who used an exploit, it would have been something stricter than a rematch. I'll explain why: the rules we play by are written by game enthusiasts, not lawyers, and trying, contrary to common sense, to appeal to the "letter" of the law is at least unwise. As is saying that the AC didn't do their job properly, etc. As far as I know, they don't get paid for working in the AC, so you can't strictly demand things from them.
It was for situations like this that the clause on fair play and mutual respect was added.
b) AC members have repeatedly written that no complaints were received about this exploit.
c) no, the motives for refusing the rematch were different. This game was not crucial for me (Reddy and I still have a playoff match to play within this tournament, even after my "defeat"). I just wanted to reduce the flame war a little, since accusations (though not directed at me) had already started about pressure on the AC and the like.
ICQ 627769385
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#1061
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You are arguing about different concepts. Some are concerned with preserving the "spirit of the game," while others are concerned with the "formal rules" at the time. According to the rules, there was no violation because there was no prohibition against this. Since there was no violation, the victory is formally valid. However, if you look at the situation from the player's perspective and simply from a human point of view, such a victory is complete idiocy and absurdity. I am genuinely surprised that this was not explicitly prohibited earlier. But since no one raised the issue of this bug before, the opportunity has passed. Dirty played a significant role in this (surprisingly, which is even more surprising). He talked about some kind of abuse and exploit, and then allowed others to use it: D:D. He misled the respected audience, the solid heroes. With his authoritative and somewhat official opinion. But in the end, the entire AK was blamed: D. (I suggest whipping them, then feeling sorry and forgiving them: D) In my understanding, abuse is when you attack with a hit-and-run tactic, cast a spell, and retreat, then attack again. That's a real abuse. Or even farming neutral creatures with single units is also a kind of "abuse" because they are foolish and chase after them instead of approaching the main stacks and attacking them. But this is on a much smaller scale in terms of significance. But increasing the number of moves to the point that it gives a cheat (or even more) is not abuse; it's a bug.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того