How to play against Wizards? — Necropolis

Registered: 12/16/2012 1:03 PM UTC

Posts: 17,089

8/23/2013 8:10 PM UTC #17

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Defense or attack? Heh, is it a warrior or a caster? Make up your mind. Where's the luck and magic resistance? How come it wasn't there? You should have waited for it to happen. I think it's good that there wasn't any leadership. I wouldn't have taken it on this map anyway.
And how could you allow 12 casts from Nazir? How?! Did he really manage to cast 4 times in your turn?

Whatever

Registered: 8/20/2013 5:58 PM UTC

Posts: 11

8/24/2013 4:13 AM UTC #18

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I was developing a Warrior because in previous games, he won with armies. From the Darkness faction, I used mass Slow, mass Dispel, and Weakness, which is 2 spells per turn. I never got Luck; it's not up to me, and it wouldn't have helped anyway because my opponent had the Sar-Iss Staff, and no spell would have been deflected. Nazir cast 12 spells with the Wizard's Sign while I was chasing his gargoyles, which had scattered across the battlefield. I'm saying that, theoretically, something could have been done, but in practice, it doesn't work out. But Ogre with the Lion set (Empathy) is just insane. He really gets 3-4 turns for every one of mine (his troops had +8 morale). This guy makes money from the game; he already figures out from levels 3-4 how to level up the hero as quickly as possible and capture as much as possible. How, for example, in the Outlands, can he capture Utopia and take ALL the mines (near his castle, of course) within the first week? And this happens constantly and doesn't depend on the guards: whether they are mages, archers, or druids. For me, this is quite important. If my opponent agrees (he plays with me for free), I'll try playing as Orcs or Dwarves.

Registered: 5/24/2009 3:19 PM UTC

Posts: 1,823

8/24/2013 10:48 AM UTC #19

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Hehe, decide whether you want a Warrior or a Caster.

He correctly chose his Defense and Attack skills.

I think it's good that he didn't have Leadership.

You don't know what a Necropolis hero with Leadership is capable of, especially on the Islands of Terra.

And an Orc with the Lion set (Empathy) is just insane.

It's okay, I also played against one such player. He was also heavily buffed and always participated in tournaments. But I still won, and not just once. So you have a very real chance. If you can't beat him right away, buy time, build up your army. Or just agree with him on a certain period, without any tricks or nonsense.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

Registered: 12/16/2012 1:03 PM UTC

Posts: 17,089

8/26/2013 7:00 PM UTC #20

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Lord of Death

He correctly chose defense and attack.

You don't know what a Necropolis hero with leadership is capable of, especially on the maps.

It's okay, I also played against one such player. He was also heavily buffed and participated in tournaments. And nothing, I won, and not just once. So you have вполне real chances. If you can't defeat him immediately, buy time, build up your army. Or just agree with him on a certain period, without tricks and other nonsense.

Defense - yes. As for attack, I don't know. I haven't tried it if I had a choice not to take it. I need to test it.

Leadership, you say? Well, I don't know, are the maps really that big with a lot of neutrals? It seems I was mistaken, I apologize.

---

But mass slow and dispel are very good. Apparently, he wins solely by taking utopias for artifacts.

Whatever

In reply to Heroist

Registered: 6/24/2008 10:53 AM UTC

Posts: 3,479

8/26/2013 7:23 PM UTC #21

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Heroist

Well, I don't know, isn't Earth a large map with a lot of neutrals? It seems I was mistaken, I apologize.
.

Outcasts is actually a small map. If you're playing as the red Necromancer, he simply heads towards the blue Castle and destroys it. It takes two weeks of gameplay. There's a fountain in the middle that increases mana. It's also necessary to try playing as blue and simply head straight to the opponent's Castle before they have a chance to develop, gathering an army along the way from dark energy.
You can level up Kaspar into a rusher. Tent - machines to the max, Chaos, and the ring with elements (from the ring to elements, if available, learn the Cold Ring and Stone Skin through the puzzle).
Machines - tent.
Order - attraction, puzzle.
Chaos - ring, stone skin, spikes.
You can try to play cunningly, like your opponent.
The Mage may be well-protected from Chaos, but by distributing the damage (magic, army), he can still be defeated. And the element of surprise will also play a role, as there will be no mini-arts against magic.

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Registered: 5/24/2009 3:19 PM UTC

Posts: 1,823

8/27/2013 2:34 AM UTC #22

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Chaos - a ring, a block, spikes.

but when distributing damage (magic, army) - it can also be defeated.

Even a two-week newbie will outplay you with such a build. And some people are still trying to teach great necromancers.

Outcasts are actually small.

Outcasts are actually medium.

Well, I don't know, isn't Earth a large map with a lot of neutrals?

There are a lot of neutrals.

which means there won't be mini-arts against magic.

Read the documentation and don't embarrass yourself. A large part of the mages' army is protected from chaos, one way or another.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Registered: 8/20/2013 5:58 PM UTC

Posts: 11

8/27/2013 7:46 AM UTC #23

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The thing is, I actually tried to rush. The only thing is, I spent one day gathering experience and troops, wandering around the castle. On the 5th day (the first battle took place), I had about 170 skeletons and a small group of zombies. One opponent had 14 gargoyles (2 types of 7 each) - Nazir; the second (Orax): 40 gremlins, 14 gargoyles, 9 golems. In the first battle, I lost almost 70 skeletons before he retreated. In the second, I retreated; Orax was dealing about 200+ damage with his ice spear and wizard's staff. At that level, I had nothing to counter Chaos with. At the time of the battle, I had upgraded: Advanced Necromancy (spiritual bond) and Advanced Mechanics with a Plague Tent. In general, I tried to rush as best as I could. But, unfortunately, I didn't have enough experience. And right after the battle with me, he took the Utopia.

Added after 18 minutes
I just haven't encountered such an aggressive opponent before. That's why I asked for help from experienced players. After all, a quick start is 70-80% of the key to victory. And when they take the Utopia right under your nose (and that's a huge bonus to money, artifacts, and top-tier spells in the first week), plus you retreat with a significantly depleted army - that's not good.

Registered: 5/24/2009 3:19 PM UTC

Posts: 1,823

8/27/2013 11:08 AM UTC #24

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There aren't many skeletons; I hope they weren't archers. Did you upgrade their resilience? The Plague Tent should be scrapped altogether. It would also be good to have Battle Battlements. Plus, you should have built the guild up to the Plague level and recruited the Pain Lord. Plus, summon at least a basic-level creature. You weren't lucky with the Ice Elemental, of course; that happens.

But overall, he's a strange player. Either he's a real genius or a cheater. At the very least, how he takes the Utopia is a mystery to me. There is, of course, a Battle Battlement with regeneration, but it doesn't drop very often. And the crystal too. Suspicious.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

Registered: 6/24/2008 10:53 AM UTC

Posts: 3,479

8/27/2013 11:25 AM UTC #25

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Mortulus

Even a two-week newbie can easily defeat you with that build. And someone is still trying to teach great Necromancers.

Outcasts are just average.

There are plenty of neutral creatures.

Read the material and don't embarrass yourself. Mages have a large part of their army protected from Chaos, one way or another.

Read the above, I wrote that the Mage is protected.
Outcasts is a very small map (not in size, but specifically as a map, the game on it lasts one and a half to two weeks). The last time I played Heroes was in 2008, and Outcasts were popular then. A Chaos build could defeat the Mage due to the element of surprise. But the main advantage here is that such a rush build defeats everything! Gremlins and Mages are destroyed immediately. The opponent won't even have time to get Titans.
This venture at least gives a chance to defeat him.

Added 5 minutes ago

Terrible

I just haven't encountered such a fast opponent. That's why I asked for help from knowledgeable people. After all, a quick start is 70-80% of the key to victory. And when they take away your Utopia right under your nose (and that's a big bonus to money, artifacts + top spells in the first week), and on top of that, you yourself run away with a significantly reduced army - that's not good.

Sometimes, against a strong opponent, you can only win by playing in an unconventional way and surprising him.
But Outcasts is very standard. You need to defeat the opponent only with a rush (leave the Castle in the direction of his Castle and win). In the late game, you can no longer defeat the Mage with a Necromancer. Only a rush and trying any build for a rush.

Added 4 minutes ago

Mortulus

In general, he's a strange guy. Either he's a real genius, or he's a cheater. At least, how he gets the Utopia is a mystery to me. There is, of course, a building that provides regeneration, but it doesn't always appear. And the Crystal too. Suspicious.

There is AI behavior where the computer can focus on single units, even if there are other available troops to eliminate them at the moment. The Crystal and Wall are too overpowered against the AI. A building that provides regeneration is deadly for magic races. And Vampires with a building that provides regeneration also easily take the Utopia. There is also Deadly Cold, Golemageddon, and just - Yellow + Chaos. There are many cheesy loopholes, but everyone can use them. The same Secret of the Phoenix can be very strong.

Added 53 seconds ago
The opponent is definitely using a scanner.

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Registered: 5/24/2009 3:19 PM UTC

Posts: 1,823

8/27/2013 11:37 AM UTC #26

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HE'S ARGUING WITH THE GREAT NECROMANCER AGAIN!

The Outcasts have a very small map.

It only seems small to you because the red faction can reach the blue faction in a few days. But in reality, the map profile states that it is a "small map with a Dungeon."

Gremlins and mages are immediately wiped out.

I can't quite picture that. Okay, you took an Ice Elemental, a Ring of the Elements, fine. You visited the Fountain of Magic, and you have, say, 60-70 mana. You eliminate the mages and gremlins. By this time, the mage will easily eliminate all your skeletons and zombies because he has the Wizard's Sign and much more mana. Plus, golems and gargoyles. If it's Hafiz, then it's even worse. And summoning with the Pain Lord is great; with this build, I can easily rush Kaspar with the Outcasts and defeat anyone.

The opponent won't have time to summon Titans.

What Titans? Have you even played as a hero at all?

Added 7 minutes later

There is AI behavior for the hero, where the computer can become aggressive towards exposed units, even if there are other available troops to eliminate them at the moment.

That doesn't happen at all.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

In reply to Саня Изи

Registered: 6/24/2008 10:53 AM UTC

Posts: 3,479

8/27/2013 11:46 AM UTC #27

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Mortulus

What titans?

I already told you, there are no titans. But because of the drowned and other things, titans can be summoned easily if you prolong the battle. Breaking through magic resistance is easy.
Magic doesn't matter, whether it's Hafiz or not. The HP of gremlins doesn't increase.
You also need to get plague in the path.
By the way, there are streams about The Eastern Expedition, where you can see how they manipulate the AI on the battlefield. It's strange, but it doesn't work as well on the "Warrior" as it does on the "Hero".

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Registered: 12/16/2012 1:03 PM UTC

Posts: 17,089

8/27/2013 1:41 PM UTC #28

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In short, to summarize, your opponent is a cheater; don't play with him.

Whatever

Registered: 8/20/2013 5:58 PM UTC

Posts: 11

8/27/2013 3:31 PM UTC #29

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Mortulus

Not enough Skeletons

I accumulated as much as I could; first of all, they didn't always give skeletons (sometimes they shoved zombies in there), and secondly, there were mechanical creatures. I took Bone Warriors.

Mortulus

Did you pump Fortitude?

I pumped Fortitude, but later, around level 15. Until level 7, defense didn't appear at all.

The Plague Tent is complete garbage

The choice was between the plague tent, a ballista, and sorcery

At least how he takes Dragon Utopia is a mystery to me

To me as well. Moreover, even though Crystal and Wall of Swords drop very often for Wizards, he tells me that this isn't the best way to rely on those spells. Although with Crystal you can take Dragon Utopia even from level 1 (though the turn would take about 25 minutes). He doesn't tell me or my friends anything; he just gives a link to the website http://heroescommunity.com/ and says that everything is clearly written there, basically telling us to sit and translate it if we need to.
I had Plague too, only I didn't manage to pump everything needed by level 7 + I didn't know his build and generally didn't expect to encounter him near Dragon Utopia on the 5th day. But that's how it turned out. The game mechanics and AI behavior on Hero difficulty are known perfectly by this comrade (in my opinion). He works as a programmer and plays Heroes for 10 hours a day, mostly on foreign sites. He doesn't use a scanner.

You have to kill the opponent only with a running start (left his castle in the direction of the opponent's castle and won).

That's what I tried to do, but nothing worked out for me.

In reply to Heroist

Registered: 2/10/2012 8:08 AM UTC

Posts: 2,380

8/27/2013 3:42 PM UTC #30

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Heroist

In short, to summarize, your opponent is a cheater, don't play with him ;)

Unlikely that he's a cheater. He's just got a lot of practice.

Terrible, this isn't your level, don't play with him. Or, you can also play Heroes for half a day until you lose all sense of time. ;)

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