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Posts from "Necropolis" - changes to creatures of levels 6-7.

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
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Offline SRD
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#166
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with this presence, initiative and 8 are not scary, but then the HP should be 150. LET'S NOT FORGET about some kind of EARTH SHOCK, although I'm in favor of weakening offensive magic - just as an example.
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#167
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So, I've uploaded that top version for now. I'll start working on a major update to version 1.1.0, but it will take an indefinite amount of time. But I promise to improve everything to perfection. Or, at least, I'll try.

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Offline Nargott
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#168
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SRD
with this presence, initiative and 8 are not scary, but then the HP should be 150. DON'T FORGET about some kind of EARTH SHOCK, although I'm in favor of weakening offensive magic - just for example.
If you're afraid of offensive magic, then it would be more logical to reduce both HP and defense at the same time. For example, HP to 150, defense to 20. Such units will take a lot of damage when hit or retaliating, but otherwise, there's no other way, considering the rarity of hits and the fact that they can't be tanks with that much damage.
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Offline SRD
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#169
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I played a balanced game against Iris – their presence is insane. Perhaps the Messengers should have 150 HP, no more than that. As for their defense, I'm not sure; maybe it should be a bit lower, because no one shoots at them or attacks them (well, sometimes, but even Inquisitors and melee units run away).
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#170
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What's the point of weakening them so much? It will result in the same thing – dead units, but not with a death blow, but with the presence of the unit on the battlefield. 20 defense and 120 hit points – just like a level 6 unit. They will still die in one hit, with a 50% chance.
Look at Ghosts, they are incorporeal, but their stats are no worse than other units.

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Offline Nargott
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#171
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What's the point of weakening them so much? The result will be the same – dead units, but not with a death blow, but with lingering presence. 20 defense and 120 hit points – just like a level 6 unit. They will still die in one hit, with a 50% chance.
Ghosts are incorporeal, and their stats are no better than others.
I was talking about reducing defense at 150 hit points, not 120. Damage dealers should be fragile; otherwise, it creates an imbalance. Ghosts are not damage dealers, and besides incorporeality, they don't have any particularly significant abilities, which are just added to Messengers as a bonus. And where do they have "stats no better than others"?
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#172
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Well, they aren't twice as weak as, for example, the same plate armor units. Cerberuses have similar stats.
I'll think about the defense. I think we'll find a good balance. ;)

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#173
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Everyone is running away – it’s a real problem. Maybe we can make the chance of the ability triggering dependent on the ratio of the number of attackers to the number of messengers themselves. Otherwise, everyone except Ossira and Sinistra is weak against them in a duel:eek:
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#174
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I wasn't testing it in a duel. Duels are easy and straightforward. You just need to place a hero and quickly start the map.

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Offline SRD
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#175
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by the way, when playing as Ossir, I just left them for last, and I got lucky, maybe somewhere?

Added 3 minutes ago
here, what difference does it make - they all run away in duels, so they'll run away on the map too. Basically, give them 150 HP, 20-25 defense, and 9-10 initiative, otherwise it's just awful.:smile15:

Added 5 minutes ago
There's one more thing to consider - is it stupid to raise a Death Knight from Ents? Or does it not matter, is there some kind of plague Ent?
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Offline RedHeavenHero
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#176
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No need to add unnecessary things to the mod. ;) We can do without plague ents.

Added 4 minutes later
Besides, these will be "extra" units that will eventually just be discarded.
Карты для Героев Меча и Магии 5
Одиночные: Завеса срывается, Посол, Последний рывок, Эхо Пустоты
Кампания: Империя Единорога

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Offline SRD
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#177
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Yes, I agree that the Necromancer doesn't have an extra slot. Perhaps in the table for raising undead, we could simply make it so that they don't raise knights from Ents – there isn't always a corresponding level (for example, raising nymphs into spirits). And in general, I've gotten a bit off-topic – right now, the main thing is to finalize the issue of deaths.

Added after 4 hours 33 minutes
Well, I've played it, and I'll tell you: 1 - It's interesting. 2 - There's too much of everything, and the needs are too obvious: 1) Previously, creatures with a growth rate of 4 would cast a spell once a week; now, creatures with a growth rate of 2 do it (we're not considering the +1 building here). The spell can safely be increased by 2 times. The creature itself is now one level stronger, which means it can be further strengthened by another 1.5 times. And even so, it wasn't that strong (although it attacks in an area and an unlimited number of times – this needs to be taken into account). In general, summing up what I've said, I think it should have been increased by 5-7 times, not 10. 10 Banshees deal 1000 damage in the first row with 0 defense. I let these scythe-wielding creatures cast their spell right in front of the Seraphs – you can imagine the result. Without taking into account its defense, the damage was dealt, and without a counterattack... (and now remember that there are three of them). 2) As already mentioned, let the Harbingers have fewer hit points (I suggest 150), and can the probability of the Presence ability be changed from 50% to 30%? If not, then we need to adjust the initiative, as already suggested. Otherwise, other factions will have too few chances against the Necromancers.
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Offline Nargott
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#178
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Well, they aren't twice as weak as, say, the same Plate Mail units. Cerberuses have similar stats.
I'll think about the defense. I think we can find a middle ground.
I didn't say they should be twice as weak; I was talking about how incorporeality/ethereal form is almost equivalent to doubling their HP. Plate Mail units and Cerberuses aren't defenseless; they have their own perks (a whole set), and the latter also have speed and initiative. Ghosts only have incorporeality as a significant advantage.
EVERYONE runs away – this is a real problem. Maybe the chance of the ability triggering could be made dependent on the ratio of the number of attackers to the number of Messengers themselves, because besides Ossir and Sinister, everyone else is weak against them in a duel.
The ability isn't being adjusted. It can rightfully be called one of the strongest abilities, after Seduction and, perhaps, Incorporeality, of all the abilities in the original game.
in general, summarizing what was said above, I think it should have been increased by 5-7 times, not 10. 10 Banshees deal 1000 damage in the first row with 0 Defense. I let them attack the Seraphim right in front of him, so you can imagine – without taking his defense into account, they dealt damage to him, and without a counterattack... (and now remember that there are three of them).
Well, that's your problem if you let a full stack of Banshees attack a unit with high defense and low HP. It's like standing in front of a dragon's breath. You shouldn't turn the ability into something useless and weaken it. It shouldn't be weaker than a direct attack on a single target; otherwise, people won't be afraid of it, and it won't be a significant feature of the unit. For comparison, the Red Dragons have a similar ability that deals 1.5 times more damage with the same no-counterattack effect, but it's unlikely to be considered cool because it's performed from a standstill, and you have to really try to miss it.

And you don't need to constantly talk about 3; in practice, you probably won't be able to build an outpost in a reasonable amount of time. It's already a problem for the Necropolis to build a simple level 7 structure, let alone upgrade and build an outpost...
EVERYONE runs away – this is a real problem. Maybe the chance of the ability triggering could be made dependent on the ratio of the number of attackers to the number of Messengers themselves, because besides Ossir and Sinister, everyone else is weak against them in a duel.
In duels, the weak dragons were effectively replaced by strong units in a 1-to-1 ratio, hence the result. If you want to balance duels, you need to reduce the number of deaths in the presets.
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Offline SRD
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#179
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With this setup, we get equal-level units – one with Presence but low HP and defense, and another with high HP and defense and a less effective war cry (compared to Presence). But if we compare them now to, for example, a Twilight Dragon or a Green Dragon, it seems to me that there's an imbalance, and on larger maps, there will definitely be three of them, and then...
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Offline Nargott
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#180
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With this setup, we get equal upgrades – one with Presence, but low HP and defense, and another with high HP and defense and a less effective war cry (compared to Presence). But if we compare it now to, for example, a Twilight Dragon or a Green Dragon, it seems like there's an imbalance, and on large maps, they will definitely appear in groups of three, and then...
The question is, on which week do you build the Necropolis's level 7 dwelling? And when do you upgrade and add an extension to it? In normal games, even on large maps, the game lasts up to 6 weeks; at least an experienced opponent won't give you more time to develop.
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