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Posts from HoMM3 HD is a mod (add-on) for the game Heroes of Might and Magic 3.

HD mod and expansions.
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Offline rebellious
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#2315
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Yes, yes...
This idea has been voiced several times before, with a very simple solution – numbering the stacks. And this is a change to the gameplay, as is everything else in HD+.
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Offline shameonyou
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#2316
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The initiative bar is definitely unnecessary; it would make the game too complex. That's why I don't like the fifth installment, even though I enjoyed playing through its campaigns many years ago.
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Offline Lider1
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#2317
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This will not only save time but also greatly simplify the game. I personally am against such innovations.

Disabled grayed-out stacks and neutral morale are discussed in a slightly different topic!
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Ment
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#2318
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The initiative bar is certainly a good thing, but in my opinion, it's an overdoing, because the turn order is an important aspect of the game that needs to be monitored.
In the fifth game, a random element is simply used, and in some rather frequent situations, it is not just difficult, but absolutely impossible to predict the turn order. In the third game, as far as I understand, it is always possible: with equal speeds, the unit located higher on the map goes first.
 

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Offline Vatya
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#2319
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Ment
In the fifth game, the element of randomness is simply used, and in some rather frequent situations, it is not just difficult, but absolutely impossible to predict the turn order. In the third game, as far as I understand, it is always possible: with equal speeds, the unit located higher on the map goes first.
But that's not the case. With equal speeds, the turn order is not constant, but that's not the point. When neutrals gather in a group, it can be difficult to understand who will go next. You can remember/write down/mark it, but it takes time, and the opponent suffers more...
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Offline Белендор
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#2320
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Vatya
But that's not the case. With equal speeds, the turn order is not constant, but that's not the point. When neutrals gather in a group, it can be difficult to understand who will go next. You can remember/record/mark it, but it takes time, and the opponent suffers more...
and what is the purpose of this?
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Offline R55Max
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#2321
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Belendor
and what is this for?
The player should be able to keep track of the turn order themselves. This skill is directly related to the player's skill. Even with 14 identical stacks (e.g., single skeletons), it is very important to be able to understand or remember who goes next, especially when everyone is fighting in a chaotic melee.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Vatya
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#2322
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R55Max
The player should be able to track the turn order themselves. This skill is directly related to the player's skill. Even with 14 identical stacks (for example, level 1 skeletons), it is very important to be able to understand or remember who goes next, especially when everyone is attacking at once.
No problem at all, the player should also leave the level 1 units, the player should also manually buy them, the player should also understand where to move, the player should also scroll through the heroes and cities, should I continue?

No problem, I can set the graphics to the minimum for any opponent, disable the graphics accelerator, and run to the neighbor for a notebook and pen to draw the battlefield and record which stack went where and who will go next in what order (especially with those who are against it here, that's what I'll do)...

The essence of the mod is to simplify already simple things. Okay, forget about the cons and clues, not everyone knows the turn order in these buildings, but what's wrong with simply making it easier in battle?
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Offline Белендор
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#2323
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Vatya
No problem at all, players should also leave units behind, buy resources themselves, figure out where to jump, manage heroes and cities themselves, should I continue?

No problem, I can set the graphics to minimum for any opponent, disable hardware acceleration, and run to my neighbor for a notebook and pen to draw the battlefield and record which stack went where and who will move in what order (especially for those who are against it here, that's what I'll do)...

The essence of the mod is to simplify already simple things. Okay, forget about consultants and clues, not everyone knows the turn order in these buildings, but what's wrong with simplifying combat?
You'll also suggest adding the turn order for morale and luck in combat... for convenience, to show where to skip and where to attack... because that's what the mod is for.
Yes, it's time to introduce a bot for the game... introduce an algorithm for each castle, it builds, hires, gathers resources, fights... in short, it does everything.
Now that's what I call convenient
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Offline Lider1
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#2324
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Vatya
No problem at all, players should also manage their units, manually purchase items, figure out where to move, manage heroes and cities, and so on. Should I continue?

Managing individual units, purchasing items, ("figuring out where to move":confused:), managing heroes in the list – all of this consumes only time.

For turn order in battles, knowledge is needed. First and foremost, knowledge of the game mechanics. Moreover, knowledge alone is not enough; you need a good memory to remember who went after whom and keep track of everything. And only then comes time-saving. You're suggesting that any noob who has no idea who goes after whom and how it works should simply have an initiative bar. That is, to guide the game down the path of simplification. I repeat, it's not just about saving time, but also about simplifying the gameplay itself.

It's a good idea, but not for SoD. For WoG, in my opinion, it's a great idea; it would comfortably fit alongside disabling morale for neutrals, disabling the greased stack, buying movement points for a hero, and other "papal features."
Vatya

The essence of the mod is to simplify already simple things. Okay, forget about cons and hives; not everyone knows the turn order in these buildings, but what's wrong with simplifying battles?

Forget about cons and hives; the turn order is simple. But again, new rounds, morale, someone is waiting, who went after whom – you need to remember all of this, and you're suggesting simply eliminating the whole process by replacing it with a bar.
Vatya

No problem, I can set the graphics to minimum, disable hardware acceleration, and run to my neighbor for a notebook and pen to draw the battlefield and record which stack went where and who will go next (especially for those who are against it here; that's what I'll do)...

Yeah, who needs you?! You can not play Heroes at all. Or you can play. Ultimately, everyone doesn't care. Do as you say. Intentionally delay your turns. Put yourself in the category of slow players, and after some time, I'll see who you'll be playing with.

But that's exactly why the chess timer was created, and thank goodness it's already implemented.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline R55Max
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#2325
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Vatya
No problem at all, the player should also leave the tier 1 units themselves, should also manually buy them up, understand where to jump themselves, rotate heroes and towns themselves, shall I continue?

No problem, I can set the graphics to minimum with any opponent, disable the graphics accelerator, and run to a neighbor for a notebook and pen to draw out the battlefield and record which stack went where and who will move in what order next (especially with those who speak out against it here, that's exactly what I'll do)...

The essence of the mod is precisely to simplify things that are already simple. Fine, forget the Griffin Conservatories and Hive buildings, after all not everyone knows the turn order in those structures, but what's bad about it just in battle?
Don't lump everything together. Not to simplify, but to make certain manipulations more comfortable to use. This isn't about hints! (how to hit a Dragon Utopia, Griffin Conservatory, Dwarf Cottage, what the turn order is, etc.).

Determining a unit's turn in battle is not a simple thing (with equal speeds, wait/not wait, morale that changes its place in the turn order)!
What you justify as determining the turn being a delay where the opponent waits a long time, I justify as your noobiness in determining the unit's turn. No notebook can contain absolutely all the tricks and features of the game. If you learn to determine the turn order once, believe me, you will never make a mistake, unless you just slip up (like a misclick or inattention), but you will have an advantage over an opponent who doesn't know how to do it. Moreover, in battles with an opponent, no one rushes anyone.

if you play with notebooks, then you probably need to have a couple of volumes

P.S. The leader beat me to it, spot on
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Ment
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#2326
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The player should be able to keep track of the turn order themselves. This ability directly relates to the player's skill. Even with 14 identical stacks (e.g., level 1 skeletons), it's very important to be able to understand or remember who goes next, especially when everyone is attacking at once.
As if remembering such things is something incredibly difficult, haha. If a creature has already taken its turn once, then failing to grasp the order... I don't even know what to say. If the issue is only this, then these things, which don't require skill, should be done automatically to avoid reducing the game to meaningless routine.
Knowledge is needed to keep track of the turn order in battle.
Knowledge? Well, that's just great. So, are there any other factors besides the unit's position relative to the top of the map at the beginning of the battle and its speed?
But again, new rounds, morale, who is waiting, who went after whom – all of this needs to be remembered, and you're suggesting simply eliminating the entire process by replacing it with a bar.
A mega-genius process. Let's also remove the turn order bar for heroes and the color of the arrows; we'll just have to remember who moved how many squares. Information about growth in the castle: why, that's an interesting process, counting how many creatures you'll have next week. And also taking into account the citadel or castle, external dwellings, weeks of plague, etc. This is where aspiring mathematicians can really shine!
 

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Offline Vatya
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#2327
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Guys, are you seriously losing it? What does turn order have to do with anything? We're talking about who was initially in which stack, and all sorts of waits/no waits/morale and other nonsense that you've added here is completely irrelevant. You've clearly confused a normal sentence with the initiative bar. No one is saying to indicate turn order, just to number the stacks in descending order, AND THAT'S IT!!!! As for turn order, let everyone manage their own waits/haste/speed and other things.

Learn to read carefully. ;)
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Offline R55Max
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#2328
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Ment, read the previous messages.
It's as if remembering such things is something incredibly difficult, ho-ho. If a creature has already moved once, then not understanding the order... I don't even know...
I've had several very important battles with skeletons, my 7 skeletons against 7 skeletons of the opponent. And both without magic, both scouts with a difference in strength of 1 unit at most. There, the damage spread can be countered by the position of the skeletons. When all the skeletons move into a "heap" (when 1 skeleton cannot kill another even in 2 turns). In this situation, it is very important to remember your skeletons, because they do not differ from the opponent's skeletons, except for the one that is moving, to remember which of the opponent's skeletons will move next, so as not to block your damaged skeleton. And if you, for example, lose 2 skeletons for free (without killing a single one), then consider that you have lost the battle. You can also deliberately confuse your opponent by moving your units diagonally, from top to bottom and from bottom to top. I don't think you'll understand that :) Added 6 minutes later
Vatya
Guys, are you really delusional? What does the turn order have to do with it? We're talking about who was originally in which stack, and all sorts of waits/no waits/morale and other nonsense that you've added here is completely irrelevant. You've confused a normal sentence with the initiative bar. No one is saying to indicate the turn order, just to number the stacks in descending order AND THAT'S IT!!!! And let everyone manage their own waits/oils/hastes and other things. Learn to read carefully. ;)
What are you talking about? How to understand who was in which stack? Is it like someone is in a stack, or a stack is in a stack? Can't you determine who moves in what order from the start? If you can determine it from the start, then remember where each of your units moves, and don't look at the numbers. Maybe you should just name each of the 7 stacks somehow? Aunt Fenya, Aunt Motya, etc.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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Offline Ment
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#2329
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In this situation, it's very important to remember your skeletons, because they are no different from the enemy's.
Really? ) And what about the fact that they are looking in different directions? ) But otherwise, yes, I understand, although this is a grotesque situation, I don't think it happens often. And again, it's just a matter of observation; it has little to do with mental abilities or knowledge of the game mechanics.
 

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