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#31
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I especially agree with Nargott regarding revenge; it's already been nerfed in 3.1, so why nerf it further? Besides, there are more overpowered spells, like the fan spell.
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Cost - 1 week + . Doubles the resource gain rate.
Actually, for Heroes of Might and Magic, that's still not enough...
As I understand it, in Heroes of Might and Magic, most maps are simply incredibly rich in resources due to the huge number of treasure chests. If mines also give double the income...
 

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#32
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Ment
I especially agree with Nargott regarding revenge; it's already been nerfed in 3.1, so why nerf it further? Besides, there are more overpowered spells, like Fan.
I'll revert it when the number of those who disagree exceeds the number of those who agree ;)
Right now, I'm at +3 in favor of keeping it.

Added after 53 seconds
Ment
I understand, in Heroes of Might and Magic, most maps have incredibly rich resources due to the huge number of treasure chests. If mines also give double the income...
The main thing is that this is allowed for everyone, and sometimes a single resource is scarce, and an upgrade would be very helpful ;)
Sometimes, players get into trouble when an elf has very few trees scattered around the map, for example ;)
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#33
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In any normal tournament, without new versions of the game, the Tower faction was banned!
Yes, I was surprised. Apparently, they are introducing absurd restrictions even in tournaments. You would think that the Tower faction can help you win a game by forcing your opponent to attack with fewer forces and without scouting.
1000-2000? Heh. No one is forcing you to upgrade all mines.
Although, I was thinking of making it 5000 + 5 stone and 5 wood, but that's not quite right...
The price was not chosen randomly and was based on the lowest prices on the market + self-sufficiency.
What market prices? The cost of 1 resource is 100 gold, and a rare resource is 200 gold. This is a perfectly natural rate.
Based on the prices in the Capitol faction's upgrade tree, the investment should pay off in 4-5 days. Even based on the inflated resource values of 250/500 (instead of 100/200), your investment pays off in 15 days!

Added 6 minutes later
However, if you look at it through the prism of the exorbitant market prices, where only 1 rare resource is offered for 5,000 gold, your approach is appropriate. From a market point of view, no one will use this method to acquire resources that are not in high demand (I myself have rarely exchanged gold for resources, only for surplus resources).
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#34
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Nargott
Yes, it was surprising. Apparently, they are introducing absurd restrictions even in tournaments. You'd think that winning a game is possible thanks to a tower, by forcing the opponent to attack with fewer forces and without scouting.
I already explained the reason ;)
Nargott

What are the prices on the market? The cost of 1 resource is 100 gold, and a rare resource is 200 gold. This is a perfectly natural rate.
Why do we need sales? And how many purchases are there? And here, he added it himself:
Nargott

However, if you look at it through the lens of the exorbitant market prices, where only 1 rare resource is offered for 5,000 gold, your approach is appropriate. From a market perspective - because no one will use this method to inject resources that are not in short supply (I practically never exchanged gold for resources, only surplus resources).
Well, there you go ;)
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#35
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The market itself is primarily a tool for selling surplus resources. Economically, it is not beneficial at all; exchange is used in emergency situations or for resources that are essentially unnecessary. It seems that you have a similar approach to developing mines – only in emergency situations (I can't imagine when there would be a surplus of gold). But again, if you compare it to a warehouse, the upgrade cost should be adjusted accordingly.
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#36
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Nargott
The market itself is primarily a tool for selling surplus resources. It is not economically beneficial at all, and trade is used only in emergencies or for resources that are essentially useless. It turns out that you have the same approach to developing mines – only in emergencies (I can't imagine when there would be a surplus of gold). But again, if you compare it to a warehouse, the upgrade price should be adjusted accordingly.
So, if we were to base it entirely on the market, the price would be around 35,000. I have a fifth of that. But the payback period should not be less than a week, and the prices for all upgrades should be the same. For gold, that's 7,001 gold. But the number isn't very appealing, so I increased it to 7,500. In the end, the market only adjusted the cost of mines by 2,500, not 30,000 :) +
Maybe we can analyze it with a specific example?
Necropolis? Elf? Would it be profitable to upgrade a lumber mill for an Elf?
The problem is not only in the resourcefulness of the map, but also in the choice of difficulty ;)
Maybe then, let's choose Veteran difficulty and medium resourcefulness. (On maps from IRMG, the resourcefulness will be high, but the hero difficulty will be high)
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#37
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Dyrman
So, if we follow a purely market-based approach, the price would be around 35,000. I get a fifth of that. But the payback period shouldn't be longer than a week, and the upgrade costs should be the same for everyone. In terms of gold, that's 7,001 gold. But the number isn't very appealing, so I increased it to 7,500. However, in the end, the market only adjusted the cost of mines by 2,500, not 30,000 :) +
Maybe we can analyze it with a specific example?
Necromancer? Elf? Would it be profitable for an Elf to upgrade a lumber mill?
No, no. The market-based approach cannot be applied in the same way to income. No one will ever upgrade mines for 35,000. Because the shortage of 1-3 resources is usually discovered on the same day they are needed. This is the point of the market: you can exchange any amount of resources at once, and you can get rid of any surplus, not just gold.
In your case (mines), this is not the case. Therefore, it is more logical to apply the warehouse approach.
As for gold, its payback period should be 5 days (like the Capitol branch), since there is no exchange here.

Let's analyze it for the Elf. 5,000 is the maximum price I am personally willing to pay for a wood shortage. The same applies to mercury for the Necromancer. The warehouse is slightly more expensive (+5 stone), but its advantage is that it can be used at any time, including at the beginning of the game, and not only when the mercury mine has already been captured (and development only speeds up the growth). Plus, a mine can be easily captured, while a city is more difficult to miss.
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#38
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Nargott
No, no. The market approach cannot be applied in the same way to income. Because a shortage of 1-3 resources is usually discovered on the same day they are needed. The point of the market is that you can exchange any amount of resources at once.
In your case (mines), this is not the case. Therefore, it is more logical to apply the warehouse approach.
As for gold, its payback period is 5 days (like the Capitol branch), since there is no exchange here.
The Capitol is a unique building. A mine cannot violate the principle of a unique building, and the payback period should already be higher. It's not even worth comparing it to a magistrate, because it adds the possibility of an additional upgrade. That is, the payback period for the upgrade should already be higher than 5000, which is why I initially thought about giving 5000, 5 wood, and 5 stone (like for materials for the upgrade). But, although the market is not a complete basis, it does make adjustments, and there can be many markets ;)
Besides, wood and stone mines are captured on the first day, and the creature increase occurs after a week. It would be logical, based on the same price for upgrading all mines (one of the conditions), to set it at 7000. Besides, the player should have common sense that it would be unprofitable for him to upgrade all the mines, and upgrading most of the mines may be possible due to the low price....
The combination of these and some other conditions gives the final price of 7001
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#39
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Simple math. The production cost of a rare resource is 200, and it can be exchanged on the market for 5000 gold. That's a difference of 25 times. But you can exchange any resource for any other. In the case of mines, you can't exchange just any resource for any other; it's mostly gold for any other resource. It would then be logical to have a difference of 5 times (the square root of 25) for the halved restriction on freedom. But then we also get an equivalent income of 1000 per day, and a payback period of 5 days = 5000.
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#40
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Nargott
Simple math. The cost of a rare resource is 200, and it can be exchanged on the market for 5000 gold. That's a 25-fold difference. But you can exchange any resource for any other. In the case of mines, you can't exchange just any resource for any other; it's mostly gold for any other. It would then make sense to have a 5-fold difference (the square root of 25) for a halving of the freedom of choice. But then we also get an equivalent income of 1000 per day, and a payback period of 5 days = 5000.
Nargott

Let's analyze it using the Elf example. 5000 is the maximum price that I personally am willing to pay for a shortage of wood. The same applies to mercury for the Undead. The Warehouse is slightly more expensive (+5 stone), but its advantage is that it can be built at any time, including at the beginning of the game, and not only when the mercury mine has already been captured (and development only speeds up the growth).
You can't build it at any time. The Warehouse requires level 2 of the town (+market). And level 2 of the town means a loss of two creature dwellings in the town, at best? Mines on the map don't have this disadvantage.
The Castle takes 20 days to build. That's an increase of 40 stacks of wood.
Is it worth paying such a price for 7500?
With the Undead, I meant stone, but never mind
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#41
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Dyrman
The Capitol is a unique structure. The mine should not disrupt the principle of a unique structure, and its profitability should already be higher.
I said – a branch of the Capitol. That is, a magistrate, a town hall, etc.
Even comparing it to a magistrate is not worth it, because it adds the possibility of additional upgrades.
The magistrate not only opens up the possibility for an upgrade but also has similar building restrictions in the form of prerequisites and level.

In any case, if you apply the approach of profitability within 7 days (and this is justified in the case of long games), then the warehouse should also be brought to a proper state.
Besides, the player should have common sense that it would be unprofitable for him to upgrade all the mines, and upgrading most of the mines may be affordable at a low price....
What does it mean – most of the mines? No one in their right mind will invest 5000 in a resource that is not in short supply. Moreover, the investment is practically a one-time thing, or do you have gold being shoveled with a shovel?
Well, with the Undead, I meant stone, but never mind.
I won't buy stone for the Undead even for 1000.

Added 3 minutes ago
Think about it yourself, the market is almost always available. This means that there are no problems with the availability of the warehouse. What will I choose, build a warehouse for 5000 and 5 stone, or upgrade a specialized mine for 7500, which can also be easily captured?
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#42
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Nargott
I said - BRANCH of the capitol. That is, the magistrate, the town hall, and...
There can only be one such branch for 1 player. What difference does it make? The essence of it won't change.

Added 3 minutes later
Nargott
You yourself can see that the market is almost always available. This means there are no problems with warehouse availability. What will I choose: build a warehouse for 5000 and 5 stone, or upgrade a specialized mine for 7500, which can also be easily captured?
You would build a warehouse much later than you would capture the necessary mine anyway.
And how will you build a wood warehouse, for example? For Inferno, a mercury warehouse; for Necropolis, a stone warehouse, etc.

I'll repeat the question:
me
The Castle takes 20 days to build. This is an increase of 40 stacks of wood.
Is it worth paying such a price for 7500?
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#43
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Dyrman
Perhaps there is only one such branch for a single player game. What difference does it make? The essence won't change.
The difference is significant. What will I build: a municipality for 5000, which gives +1000 to gold, or an upgrade to a gold mine for 7500?
You would build a warehouse much later than you capture the necessary mine anyway.
And how will you build a wood warehouse?
Compared to wood, yes. But not compared to a specialized, rare resource.

Added 2 minutes later
The Castle takes 20 days to build. That's an increase of 40 stacks of wood.
Is it worth paying such a price for 7500?
I don't understand the point; what does the Castle's construction time have to do with the mine's output? I will only get 40 stacks of wood by the end of the period. Be consistent with the payback period – 7 days means 7 days, not 20.
In the case of the Elves (and I would never trade 7500 gold for 40 wood for other races), a lot of wood is only needed in the first week.
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#44
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Nargott
The difference is significant. Should I build a town hall for 5000, which provides a +1000 bonus to gold, or upgrade a gold mine for 7500?
I'll repeat: there's no difference in defining uniqueness.
Nargott

I don't understand the point; what does the castle's construction time and the mine's output have to do with it? I'll only get 40 stacks of wood by the end of the period. Be consistent with the payback period – 7 days means 7 days, not 20.
In the case of the Elves (and I would never trade 7500 gold for 40 wood for other races), a lot of wood is only needed in the first week.
So, the remaining 20 units of wood are just for show? When many buildings for the Elves consume this wood.
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#45
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Dyrman
I'll say it again: there's no difference in how uniqueness is defined.
You just don't understand.

I gave you specific examples from in-game situations. The choice is between a town hall or developing a gold mine. Naturally, the town hall, because it's cheaper. The choice is between a warehouse or developing a resource mine for the same resource. Naturally, the warehouse, because it's cheaper. Do you understand what I'm getting at? With your prices, you're eliminating choices.
Dyrman

So, the other 20 units of wood are just for nothing?
After the first week, an Elf can easily manage with normal wood production, so there's no need to overpay for it.

Added 6 minutes later
I calculated that an Elf needs 12 more wood to fully build everything compared to, for example, a Human Castle. And wood isn't exactly scarce there. So, is it worth paying 7500 for those 12 units of wood?
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