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Posts from Heroes 6 - Discussion

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In reply to =Feel999=
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#2930
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=Feel999=
No, it wasn't him; he didn't come up with anything except his Middle-earth...
Okay. But it was he who took creatures from the depths of mythology, seriously reworked them, and presented them in the form in which they are used in all fantasy worlds.

In general, based on the information available so far, Heroes 6 looks very negative. Cuts everywhere, a stylistic failure. In spirit, it is as experimental as the fourth installment was in its time, and as you remember, it wasn't a hit. The style of almost all factions has been changed. The standard set of factions is not classic; there are no mages and necromancers from the first part yet, and no elves from the second part, who are practically a symbol of fantasy. One of the saddest announcements for me is the cancellation of the upgrade system. It will remain a feature of the fifth part, just like the different variants of creatures in the fourth. The most banal system of upgrading units is boring both stylistically and practically; that is, it is simply a stat boost, and sometimes +1 skill. Tactical diversity is reduced to nothing. The reduction of resources looks negative at first glance, but we'll see. The reduction of factions means a reduction of units, which means a reduction of diversity. The adventure map will now consist of very monotonous units, unless they come up with over 50 neutral creatures, which is unlikely.
The Naga race, by the way, didn't disappoint me too much, and I secretly hope that this is just someone's successful joke.
In general, the only hope is for add-ons, or perhaps the 7th installment, or for our glorious modders.
А что я здесь делаю то?
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#2931
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There aren't any well-known mages from the first part yet.
He made a fool of himself in the entire section.
My sword, my trusted ally, unphased by my aspect.
In reply to Happy Life
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#2932
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Morning
He made a fool of himself in the entire section -_\
No way. Essentially, they are the same as the Mages, meaning a race that embodies "good" magic, in contrast to the Warlocks, the dark elves, who embody "evil" magic.
А что я здесь делаю то?
In reply to NikBond
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#2940
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NikBond
In general, based on the information available so far, Heroes 6 looks very negative. Everything has been cut down, and the style is inconsistent. In spirit, it is as experimental as the fourth installment was, and as you may recall, it wasn't a hit. The style of almost all factions has been changed. The standard set of factions is not classic; there are no mages and necromancers from the first part, and no elves from the second part, who are practically a symbol of fantasy.
The words "changed," "standard," "inconsistent style," and "not classic" appear constantly – in general, it's clear, a typical old-school player, and it's a matter of taste. No one has ever seen "living" orcs, undead, and others, and stereotypical orcs appear in many other games, so why put them in the new Heroes? Elves will probably be saved for the add-ons, as will their dark counterparts (someone has to live in the Dungeon).
One of the saddest announcements for me is the cancellation of alt-upgrades. It will remain a unique feature of the fifth part, just like the different types of creatures in the fourth. The most banal system of upgrading units is boring both stylistically and practically; that is, it is simply an increase in stats and sometimes +1 skill. Tactical diversity merges into one thing.
Alt-upgrades are not needed. It is still impossible to make them completely equal; there are many such examples in the fifth installment. And in any case, an alt-upgrade is the same "increase in stats +1 skill," only the stats differ by a couple of units, and the skill is different, so tactics will not suffer in any way.
Cutting down on factions means cutting down on units, which means cutting down on diversity. The adventure map will now consist of very monotonous units, unless they come up with over 50 neutral creatures, which is unlikely.
Replacing units is not the same as cutting them down. There were some, now there are others. That's all. In general, I am much more concerned about the diversity of tactics, ways to upgrade a hero, castle building, and the magic system – if all this is reduced to the level of some casual games for schoolchildren, then yes, Heroes will be a failure for me. And no sets of creatures will save the game in this case, so this is not the defining part of the game, in my opinion.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
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#2942
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Little Dragon
I was a fool, I always thought that there were elves in the first part, and mages appeared only in the second. Thank you to the smart people, they enlightened me, the ignorant one.
I also didn't know that dark elves existed in HoMM before the fifth part.
See, how useful this forum is. I'm not talking about names and races, but about the ideological style of the faction. In fact, the Sorceress in the first part was the embodiment of light magic, and the Wizard was the embodiment of dark magic. Then the Sorceress faction split into Elves and Mages, and the Wizard into Necromancers and, well, Wizards/Warlocks. I don't care who is in the Warlock's castle - dark elves or centaurs, even if they are Cheburashka-ninjas, but in essence, they are still the same Warlocks!
The same goes for the Mages.
[QUOTE=Vayshan]The words "changed", "standard", "stylistic failure", "not classic" are constantly found - in general, it's clear, a typical old-school player, it's a matter of taste. No one has ever seen living orcs, undead, and so on, but stereotypical orcs are found in many other games, why put them in the new Heroes? Elves were probably left for the add-ons, as well as their dark counterparts (someone has to live in the Dungeon).

Alt-upgrades are not needed. It is still impossible to make them completely equal, in the fifth part you can find many similar examples. And in any case, an alt-upgrade is the same "stat boost +1 skill" only the stats differ by a couple of units and the skill is different, so the tactics will not suffer in any way.

Replacing units is not a cut. There were some, now there are others. That's all. In general, I am much more concerned about the diversity of tactics, ways to upgrade a hero, building a castle, the magic system - if all this is reduced to the level of some casual games for schoolchildren, then yes, Heroes will be a failure for me. And no sets of creatures will save the game in this case, so this is not the defining part of the game, IMHO.[/QUOTE]

1) I don't understand why cut races if there are 9 fully formed and ready-to-use races in the game, and if you try, you can identify up to 12. I understand that a couple need to be left for the add-ons, but still.
2) Alt-units are one of the best innovations in the fifth part. They differ precisely in skills, sometimes in stats for balance! This all gives diversity in tactics. At the moment, I am not taking into account the hero's magic and skills, I am taking into account the tactics based on the skills and characteristics of the creatures. Alt-units are equal, they just take different units for each tactic. There are failures, but there are not many of them.
3) Where do you see the replacement of units? There were 8 factions, 7 creatures in each, plus upgrades and alt-units. And also neutrals. As a result, 175 units. Here there are 5 factions, 7 levels (units, meaning), and upgrades. In total, 70, plus neutrals, let's say about ten, that's 80. A cut of almost half.
=Feel999=
You know, elves in fantasy worlds were described by other writers before Tolkien, so he is not a pioneer in this area.
Enough with the empty talk, let's have facts, I don't believe it. Professor Tolkien created elves, Middle-earth, high fantasy, and the whole world in general, I saw it myself.
А что я здесь делаю то?
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#2943
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I don't understand why you adhere to such an ideology? Tolkien is just one of the few who promoted the fantasy world, IMHO and that's it...
WHAT? Tolkien founded the fantasy genre, promoted it single-handedly, and then others promoted it further. If it weren't for him, we would still consider dwarves to be gnomes, elves to be fairies, and we wouldn't know anything about orcs at all.
А что я здесь делаю то?
In reply to NikBond
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#2944
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NikBond
The same goes for mages.
So, you mean that the Sorceress castle from the first game is, for you, the mages that split into Sylvan and Academy mages in the second game, am I right?
NikBond
Enough with the empty talk, let's have facts, I don't believe it. Professor Tolkien created elves, Middle-earth, and the entire fantasy world, I saw it myself.
Where are the facts that he created elves?
Достоинство человека определяется тем, каким путем он идет к цели, а не тем, достигнет ли он ее.;)
Демократия есть одурачивание народа при помощи народа ради блага народа.(Уайльд Оскар)
In reply to =Feel999=
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#2945
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=Feel999=
So, you mean that the Sorceress castle from the first part represents the mages who split into Sylvan and mages in the second part, is that correct?

Added after 3 minutes
Where is the evidence that he created elves?
1) Yes. In essence, yes. Because I've said it a hundred times, the Sorceress castle represented "Good" magic, which is what the mages do now.
2) He didn't create anything. He took legends and carefully extracted some creatures from them, converted them to a new idea, and gave them a new meaning. Regarding the elves, I don't remember where they came from...
Counter-question: give me an example of a Fantasy book BEFORE Tolkien?
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#2946
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1) I don't understand why they're cutting down on the number of races when the game already has 9 fully formed and ready-to-use races, and if you try, you can even identify up to 12. I understand that a couple need to be reserved for add-ons, but still.
For variety.
2) Alt-units are one of the best new features in the fifth installment. They differ precisely in their abilities, and sometimes in stats for balance! This all provides tactical diversity. At the moment, I'm not taking into account the hero's magic and other things; I'm focusing on the tactics based on the abilities and characteristics of the creatures. Alt-units are equal; you just choose different units for each tactic. There are some failures, but there aren't many.
Abilities don't make a difference; druids were and still are units that shoot and cast spells, and this is almost everywhere (stalkers are a rare exception), so it's not worth considering alt-upgrades as something that infinitely expands tactical possibilities. Although there are examples where it's really better to take one upgrade in one case and another in another, but there aren't many of them.
3) Where do you see the replacement of units? There were 8 factions, 7 creatures each, plus upgrades and alt-units. And also neutrals. As a result, 175 units. Here, there are 5 factions, 7 levels (units, meaning), and upgrades. In total, 70, plus neutrals, let's say about ten, which makes 80. The number has been cut almost in half.
Actually, when the fifth Heroes game was released, there were six races, only one more than now, and eight only after the last add-on, as well as alt-upgrades, and before that, people played and no one complained about the lack of variety. An alt-upgrade is essentially the same unit, with different textures and a different ability (and not always an equivalent one), so they cannot be considered completely new units.
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to NikBond
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#2947
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NikBond
WHAT? Tolkien founded the fantasy genre and single-handedly popularized it, and only then did others contribute to its promotion. If it weren't for him, we would still consider dwarves to be small people, elves to be fairies, and we wouldn't even know about orcs.
Lol. From Wikipedia:
The history of fantasy literature dates back to the myths of Ancient Greece and medieval epics ("Beowulf"). Medieval novels had a significant influence on the future genre. The Arthurian legend, with its magic, swords, and romance, according to[2] Andrzej Sapkowski, forms the basis of most fantasy works. In the fantasy of the Far East, this role is played by medieval Chinese, Japanese, and Korean novels and stories, many of which contain a large fantasy element.

The first works of modern fantasy began to appear at the beginning of the 20th century. These include "The Daughter of the King of the Elves" by Lord Edward Dunsany, "Conan" by Robert E. Howard, "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis, and "The Tales of Manuel" by James Cabell. The publication of "The Lord of the Rings" by J.R.R. Tolkien brought the genre widespread popularity and had a huge impact on it.
Comparing the release dates of early works of modern fantasy, it can be seen that Tolkien was not the first. But he is the most "popular" of them all (in a good sense). In general, this is probably off-topic, so these posts will probably be deleted
Армия баранов под предводительством льва сильнее армии львов под предводительством барана.

God save us everyone
Will we burn inside the fires of a thousand suns...
In reply to Vayshan
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#2948
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Vayshan
Abilities don't change the overall picture; druids remain a unit that attacks and casts spells, and this is true almost everywhere (stalkers are a rare exception), so it shouldn't be considered that alt-upgrades infinitely expand tactical possibilities.
Actually, they do, and this example highlights that. There's a significant difference between druids with lightning, stone spikes, and mana channel, and druids with a spellcasting channel.
 

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In reply to Vayshan
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#2949
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Vayshan
Just for variety.

The abilities don't change the gameplay significantly; druids remain a unit that attacks and casts spells, and this is true for almost all units (stalkers are a rare exception), so it shouldn't be considered that upgrades infinitely expand tactical possibilities. Although there are examples where it is indeed better to choose one upgrade in one case and another in another, there aren't many of them.
Abilities are one of the main components of a unit. Tactics are built on combinations of unit and hero abilities.
А что я здесь делаю то?
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#2950
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Fantasy before Tolkien? Legends and myths of ancient Greece. As far as I remember, "Konina" also started existing before the "Professor," who read a lot of native mythology and presented it all in beautiful frills. And to avoid completely straying into off-topic discussions, I'll subtly hint that the Heroes of Might and Magic universe has never had any connection to Middle-earth, especially considering Ashan/Ashan/Eshen.
А, вот почему.

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#2951
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Absolutely all fantasy has a connection to Tolkien. In every fantasy world, there are references, geographical, ideological, plot-related, or of any kind, to Middle-earth.
Heroes of Might and Magic is not Middle-earth, but it is fantasy. It is not appropriate for fantasy to feature orcs as Papuans, and so on.
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#2955
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Later, the Sorceress faction split into Elves and Mages, and the Wizard faction split into Necromancers and, well, Wizards and Warlocks.
What the fuck am I reading?
My sword, my trusted ally, unphased by my aspect.

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