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#1086
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Looks like I hit a nerve?
Not quite:) The thing is that...mmm...the walkthrough for some quests in Morrowind is really boring and dull. But the plot itself may be a bit cliché (you are chosen and must destroy universal evil), but overall it is quite readable and enjoyable.
But it's a good RPG. Other modern RPGs have better engines, but they are bad (crappy). So, the plot is more important than technology, isn't it, amigo?
The plot can be written at any time. Well, more precisely, it shouldn't depend on time. In theory, you can write a super-plot at any point in time. (Well, what can you do, everyone is just chasing money now).
Graphics are just a wrapper - and therefore it is also important. It's just that nowadays many people only see the wrapper, and developers are also focused on that. This is sad. But...
If a game has a good plot, but lacks everything else, then it won't even be good. There must be a combination of text + combat system + character development system + visual design (graphics) + other (what I might have forgotten now).
If all components are at a good level, then the game can be called good or excellent. I'm not arguing that some of these components are more important than others, but they all must be present.

Added 1 minute ago
Revan, yes:) But most MMORPGs, if not all, fit your description O_O (I'm leaving 1% of hope:))


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#1087
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If a game has a good story but lacks everything else, it won't even be a good game.
The games that Visrite listed in his post (where he asked about their differences from Morrowind) refute this statement.
The thing is that...mmm...completing some quests in Morrowind is really boring and tedious. But the story itself may be a bit cliché (you are chosen and must destroy universal evil).
Well, what is there to argue about then?
Where do we go?
Where do we end up when we save the world?
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#1088
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Siverfale
If it doesn't involve saving the world/country, I'm willing to slightly improve my opinion of this game. But I'm afraid that's exactly what you're doing.
You don't have to save it; it's just one quest, albeit a bit longer than others.

That's exactly what I meant. If your knowledge ends with Neverwinter Nights 2, The Witcher, and some modern trash, you don't understand RPGs (although The Witcher is quite good, and I like some moments in Neverwinter Nights 2). But the best of the best came out long before these games.
Arcanum, FF7, and the second Fallout – are those okay?
Morrowind is a good, worthwhile game, and it seems to be the only one that surpasses Fallout in overall world size. Here, the power of computers benefits the game. By the way, if it's such garbage, why have tons of mods of various kinds been released for it (and are still being released)? And Siver reminds me of Nomad, or rather, his review of Morrowind. Yes, there are boring and stupid quests. But there are also many good quests that can also be completed in different ways.
Revan
Diablo is an RPG.
The answer is no. Diablo is an Action/RPG; I've already written that comparing it to regular RPGs is a mistake.
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#1089
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Siv, well, most games with a similar plot are like that. Take NWN, BG, etc. If in a book you can come up with a different plot and describe it well, it's much more difficult to do with a game.

Be strong. Believe
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#1090
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There are secondary and primary components. First and foremost, there should be a good storyline. If it's missing, the game won't be good, no matter what. A mediocre graphics level will suffice. Although, of course, there are plenty of "spoiled" gamers (and I'm not talking about you, don't get me wrong), who only want top-notch graphics, and if the graphics are bad, they immediately start complaining.
why were so many mods of various kinds created for it (and are still being created!)?
And why was Britney Spears (and still is!) so popular?

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#1091
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by the way, Arcanum is also somewhat similar, but the game itself is very different from other RPGs (with its unique world, of course)).

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#1092
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The games that Vistrite listed in his post (where he asked about their differences from Morrowind) refute this statement.
For that time, such graphics were quite good. Now, not so much.
As Ar correctly pointed out, sometimes you want to immerse yourself in the game world not only through your own imagination but also with the help of graphics.
In my opinion, nowadays, old games are mostly played for nostalgia, with the exception of those that are focused on multiplayer (Heroes of Might and Magic, for example).
Well, then what is the argument about?
The argument is that Morrowind is a pretty good RPG, and not a complete disaster, as you are stubbornly trying to prove. It's wrong to focus on the negatives while ignoring the positives.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#1093
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You don't have to save him; it's just one quest, albeit a bit longer than others.
Freedom of choice in every aspect. You can complete the quest, or you can choose not to...
Morrowind is a good, worthwhile game, and it seems to be the only one that surpasses Fallout in overall world size.
If you think RPGs should be judged by the size of their world, I have bad news for you...
Arcanum, FF7, and Fallout 2 – are they okay?
What do you mean? They (well, except for Final Fantasy, maybe, as I haven't played it) came out before Morrowind.
By the way, why, if it's such a terrible game, has it spawned (and continues to spawn!) tons of mods of various kinds?
You're right! Millions of flies can't be wrong!
In my opinion, nowadays, old games are mostly played for nostalgia.
I played these games in 2007, on a new computer, for the first time. The impressions were indescribable; there was no nostalgia – there was admiration for excellent games and complete immersion. And the graphics, as I later learned, were outdated even for that time.
About the fact that Morrowind is a perfectly decent RPG, and not a complete disaster, as you stubbornly try to prove. It's wrong to focus on the minuses while ignoring the pluses.
Are the pluses a few successful quests and a HUGE world?
Where do we go?
Where do we end up when we save the world?
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#1094
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You remind me of a person who read a book for the first time in their life. Unfortunately, it was a book by Dondova. And after reading the entire series of her books, you are absolutely sure that there are NO better books. Because you have read SO MANY books! I hope the analogy is clear?
:D :D :D That was amusing. Well, what can I say? We started with a discussion about Gothic and TES, which I am still trying to stick to, occasionally comparing them to something else or adding some discussions to the posts. But you are already blatantly bringing in anything just to prove your point. If you can't "keep" the topic, at least don't throw around baseless phrases;)
You are right! Millions of flies can't be wrong!
Of course! Only the chosen one, Siverfale, can't be wrong! His words are the truth!:D
I played these games in 2007, on a new computer, for the first time. The impressions were indescribable; there was no nostalgia – there was admiration for excellent games and complete immersion. And the graphics, as I later learned, were outdated even for that time in most cases.
The key word here is "I". But others have a different experience.
The pros are a few successful quests and a HUGE world?
A huge world is a plus; successful quests are a plus; the system of races, skills, and magic is a plus.
That's already 3. Well, honestly, I'm just too lazy to dig through my memory any further, and I don't have the time either:)
And the graphics simply didn't spoil the overall impression. If it had, that would be a different question.


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#1095
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That was amusing. Well, what can I say? We started by discussing Gothic and The Elder Scrolls, which I'm still trying to stick to, occasionally comparing them to something else or adding some discussions to my posts. But you're blatantly bringing in anything and everything just to prove you're right. If you can't "stick to the topic," at least don't throw around baseless statements.
I'm not bringing things in. I didn't want to say who you remind me of. You asked me to say it. I told you. You started laughing and saying that I'm avoiding the topic. A bit inconsistent, amigo.
Of course! Only the chosen one, Siverfale, can't be wrong! His words are the truth!
You're wrong to say that, because when I said that millions of flies can't be wrong, I was completely serious. Who, if not flies, can find their favorite scent anywhere and flock to it.
The key word here is "I." But others feel differently.
I gave these games to a few other friends, and they also played them for the first time and enjoyed them. Let me guess, the key word here is "a few"?
A huge world is a plus; successful quests are a plus; the system of races, skills, and magic is a plus.
That's already 3. But honestly, I'm just too lazy to dig through my memory, and I don't have the time.
In a good game, the pros come to mind effortlessly – that's what makes it a good game, that you don't have to dig them up.
Well, a huge world is ridiculous. Essentially, it's a giant sandbox. I don't see anything good in that.
As for the quests, you're being disingenuous – you yourself admitted that there are many stupid and boring ones.
As for the races, skills, and magic, I won't argue. I really liked them. I don't think these are the most important things in an RPG (in an RPG, I value the ability to role-play, as I've already mentioned), but since Morrowind doesn't have much else, I'll give it credit for that.
Where do we go?
Where do we end up when we save the world?
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#1096
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But for others, it's different.
Hmm, my situation is even worse ;)
Of course! One chosen Siverfale cannot be wrong! His words are the truth!
No, it just shows that the number of Fens, as well as the number of mods, doesn't reflect the "coolness" of the game.

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#1097
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Revan
There are secondary and primary components. First and foremost, there should be a good story. If there isn't one, the game won't be good.
Actually, the story is secondary. It can be very cliché. But an RPG is not a quest; it's a completely different genre. Personally, I don't think the story generally has a significant impact on gameplay.
However, the graphics don't need to be anything special; even mediocre graphics will do.
That's true, but if the graphics are good rather than mediocre, that's a plus, isn't it?
Of course, there are plenty of "spoiled" gamers (and I'm not talking about you, don't get me wrong) who only want amazing graphics, and if the graphics are bad, they immediately start complaining.
Those aren't gamers; they're complete noobs.
Siverfale
If you think that RPGs should be judged by the size of the world...
I didn't say that.
What do you mean? They (except maybe Final Fantasy, which I haven't played) came out before Morrowind.
That's because you basically called Zubr a noob. But not all fans of TES in this thread (or in general) have only played their precious Morrowind and modern garbage.
I have some bad news for you...
Is that your favorite phrase?
The pros are a few successful quests and a HUGE world?
Tell me then. What's most important in an RPG if not quests (there were quite a few quality quests), not the richness of the world, not the graphics, not the leveling system? What's left? The music?
ps
>You're right! Millions of flies can't be wrong!
You're already resorting to insults. Are your arguments exhausted?
>And why was Britney Spears (and still is!) so popular?
And why were Heroes 3/StarCraft/*any other winning game* (and still are!) so popular?
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#1098
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In a good game, the pros are remembered effortlessly – that’s what makes it a good game, that you don’t have to dig them up.
Well, a huge world is silly. Essentially, it’s a giant sandbox. I don’t see anything good in that.
Regarding quests, you’re being disingenuous – you yourself admitted that there are many stupid and boring ones.
Regarding races, skills, and magic – I won’t argue about that. I really liked them. I don’t think these are the most important things in an RPG (in an RPG, I value the ability to role-play, as I already mentioned), but since Morrowind doesn’t have much else, I’ll give it credit for that.
Don’t confuse good and excellent. Good leaves pleasant impressions; excellent... well, everyone has their own range of emotions, I won’t describe it.
Regarding quests. I only admitted that there is a stupid linear series of story quests about houses (gaining favor). It’s really awful and sticks in your memory for a long time. The other quests are quite normal.
Well, if you don’t think the character progression system is important for an RPG, then I’m sorry, you don’t understand much about RPGs. I say important because “main” sounds like the only thing. (without any intention of misrepresenting your statements). And quests are not the main thing! Go to literature for quests.
No, it just shows that the number of fans, like the number of mods, doesn’t reflect the “coolness” of the game.
It doesn’t reflect coolness. But millions won’t play a completely bad game either. As I understand it, that’s what they’re talking about?


Барон
"Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!



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#1099
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Actually, the plot is secondary. It can be very cliché. But an RPG is not a quest; it's a completely different genre. Personally, I don't think the plot significantly affects the gameplay in general.
You're wrong. Play action games.
Then tell me, what is the most important thing in an RPG if not quests (there were quite a few quality quests), not the richness of the world, not the graphics, not the character progression system?
The quests are terrible, with rare exceptions; that's one. You forgot about the plot; that's two. You forgot about the dialogues; that's three. You forgot that the world, although large, is terribly monotonous and dull; that's four.
Are you out of arguments?
When I read your post, that's exactly the question that comes to my mind.
And why were Heroes 3/StarCraft/*any other popular game* so popular (and still are!)?
Because they have dedicated fans.
Amko, you're being too arrogant, buddy. I was arguing with trolls when you didn't even know the word. So, please, spare me these "subtle" jabs, provocations, and pseudo-answers. Anyone with a spark of intelligence can see them.
The other quests are quite normal.
Quests that involve "take/kill" cannot be considered normal. And while I was playing this game, I managed to find as many as three such quests – and all of them were non-story related.
Well, if you don't think the character progression system is important for an RPG, then I'm sorry, you don't understand much about RPGs. I say it's important because "most important" sounds like it's the only thing. (without any intention of distorting your statements). And quests are not the most important! If you want quests, go play literature.
If you really believe that, then our conversation is pointless. You already have an incorrect program installed, which needs to be corrected (but I'm too lazy to do it, and besides, it requires your cooperation, which I won't get).
But millions won't play a complete failure. As I understand it, that's what the "flies" are talking about?
Buddy, flies are attracted to garbage. There must be something in it – after all, millions can't be wrong!
Where do we go?
Where do we end up when we save the world?
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#1100
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Why were Heroes 3/StarCraft/*any other winning game* so popular (and still are!)?
See the post above, I just wanted to say:
Revan
The number of fans, as well as the number of mods, absolutely do not show how "cool" a game is.
Coolness, no. But millions won't play a completely bad game.
Thousands of Russians listen to Potap and Nastya Kamenskikh :D...

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