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Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
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Offline Nargott
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#1133
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If there are no upgrades, there will also be no means for a one-time boost, which is very bad. The development vector will only take one direction: towards accumulating the maximum weekly gain (i.e., always working with a long-term perspective). At the same time, the strategy of developing troops here and now, at the expense of future gains (compared to the first strategy), will cease to exist.
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Offline SRD
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#1134
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in general, a one-time increase of the city level by two isn't such a big problem – perhaps it will be necessary to change the tiers from 0-3-6-9-12-15 to larger numbers, not 0-6-12-18-24-30, of course; this needs further consideration.
The creatures' stats can be boosted by increasing the level of the third tier (each building can have 5 tiers if I'm not mistaken) – so, this is an alternative to the "missing" second tier.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline Nargott
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#1135
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This needs to be tested. If there really is a possibility to build five-level upgrades, then it will be possible to get a boost of 3-4 times in the same tier (if needed). But each building has its own ID, so it's unlikely. As for the tiers, the original 0-3-6-9-12-15 are already too slow, so turning them into 0-30 would make them even slower. On day 7-8 of the game, we should be able to access any top-tier technology, just like in Heroes 3, otherwise, goodbye to the game's dynamics.

Added 8 minutes later
For now, I think that the mechanic of setting the base color of the city when building a fort is the most adequate, in my opinion. Because it won't reduce the importance of the upgrades themselves (there are no selective recolorings, the base color changes for the entire city). And at the same time, it will give the opportunity to play with any of the colors as a base. Instead of 1 type of city, we will actually get 3 of its subtypes (the ability to choose one of them). At the same time, the possibility of changing this base color will remain for those tiers where an upgrade will be built.
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Offline SRD
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#1136
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Nargott

As for the thresholds, the original 0-3-6-9-12-15 are already too slow, so turning them into 0-30 would make them even slower. By day 7-8 of the game, we should be able to access any top-tier technology, just like in Heroes 3, otherwise, goodbye to the game's pace.
Well, the pace won't disappear – building a structure immediately adds more than one level to the city; it adds two, which means the city level grows faster. The thing is, not every building increases the city level by 2; only dwellings do, which means the coefficient should be less than 2 – I don't know what it should be yet, but I'm guessing it should be 1.5.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline InoyOleh
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#1137
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Nargott
For now, I think that the mechanic of setting the base color of a city when building a fort is the most adequate, in my opinion. Because it won't diminish the importance of the upgrades themselves (there are no selective recolorings; the base color changes for the entire city). And at the same time, it will allow you to play with any of the colors as a base. Instead of 1 type of city, we will actually get 3 of its subtypes (the ability to choose one of them).
If it is technically possible to choose the base color (upgrade) when building a building, then this is a good idea.
Although the idea of immediately getting all 3 upgrades, and getting a boost from 3 housing improvements, also has merit.
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Offline Nargott
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#1138
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Giving +2 levels for building dwellings is not a good idea. Here's how it works: in the first week, we capture several cities and develop some of them (the main ones) to produce creatures, while others (secondary ones) are developed to produce gold or mana. Then, in the second week, we have the option to quickly rebuild the secondary cities to produce creatures, including top-tier ones. For example, in 3 days, we can build Angels, provided that the city level has already been upgraded to 7 (Angels require level 9). However, if we give +2 levels for building dwellings, the Angels will be available much later, which will negatively affect the development dynamics of the secondary cities. Added 6 minutes later
InoyOleh
If it's technically possible to choose a basic color (grade) when building a structure, then this is a good idea.
No, not buildings (creature dwellings) – but specifically the forts. That is, the basic color is common for the entire city, not individual for each tier. If you need to choose a color for a creature that is different from the basic color set by the fort, then, as usual, you need to build an upgrade for that creature. One of the drawbacks of this idea is that the basic creatures in the recruitment window will be the same, regardless of the basic color chosen. The recoloring only occurs when the creatures are actually recruited (replacing the creatures), not during the preview. This may create some perception issues.
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Offline SRD
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#1139
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well, I've expressed my thoughts, and of course, implementing 2 levels at once might not be ideal, but it would solve the upgrade issue we're discussing. However, this automatic transformation/recoloring seems a bit strange.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline Nargott
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#1140
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To be honest, even if there weren't any technical issues (it's unclear if it's feasible while preserving upgrades) and there weren't +2 to the city level, my attitude would still be negative towards this particular approach. Because it provides too much flexibility right away, devalues further development in the form of upgrading (reaching the upgrade technology), and doesn't contribute to preserving the overall basic "style" (color) of the troops. Additional bonuses like +1 morale for matching a single color are also bad, as they effectively penalize any attempt to mix colors by removing this bonus, instead of freely allowing mixing in areas where an improved dwelling has been built for that purpose.
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Offline Ment
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#1141
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Against forced recoloring. In my opinion, even if justified by improving the gameplay, the guaranteed bug with mini-artifacts is an insurmountable obstacle; there shouldn't be such flaws in the game. Recoloring basic creatures through dialogue – well, maybe that's okay. Perhaps only those that come with the hero? That would be quite logical. Or is that what was meant?
 

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Offline InoyOleh
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#1142
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Nargott
The downside of this idea is that the basic creatures in the recruitment window will be the same, regardless of the chosen primary color. The recoloring only happens during the actual recruitment (replacing creatures), not during the preview. This can create some perception issues.
Then we should abandon the recoloring idea. Let the difference be in the starting armies.
Nargott
For example, you have an Inquisitor hero with Fanatics and Archers as starting troops (red). Does this mean that until you get upgrades for Militia and Archers, you won't be able to recruit reinforcements for these units?
What difference does it make if the hero has low-tier upgrades or high-tier basic units in the starting army? Either way, you need to build the corresponding building to replenish losses. An extra building to build isn't that much of a burden. Instead, each hero will have an additional building as a priority, which will add its own interest to playing as different heroes.
In my opinion, we should create thematic, balanced starting armies and not use recoloring.

P.S. And regarding the +1 morale (10% chance of "triggering") if the hero's squad has a "native upgrade," is that really such a big bonus?
In the standard Heroes 5, players initially recruit creatures from another castle with a -1 or -2 morale penalty for testing purposes.
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Offline Ment
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#1143
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As for the +1 morale (10% chance of triggering) if the hero's unit has the "native tier," is that really such a big bonus?
I was thinking, wouldn't it be interesting if this bonus also applied to the corresponding tiers of other factions?
P.S. Always yours, a fan of playing with mixed armies.
 

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Offline InoyOleh
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#1144
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Ment
I was thinking, wouldn't it be interesting if this bonus also applied to the corresponding tiers of other factions?
P.S. Always yours, a fan of playing with mixed armies.
This isn't an exploit or a workaround.
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Offline Nargott
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#1145
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The base color is the color (tier) that any basic unit of any faction will be automatically recolored to when recruited. That is, if the base color is a tier, then recruiting basic swordsmen will immediately recolor them to the higher tier (but recruiting higher-tier units like knights or crusaders will not trigger a recolor). Three mechanics were proposed (one to be chosen): 1. Base Recoloring. When building a fort in a city, a dialog box would ask the player to choose one of the 3 base colors for the city. By default, the base color is set to the base tier, which corresponds to the original game's mechanic. 2. Class Recoloring. When a hero enters a city's garrison, the base color in the recruitment line (the first line) is temporarily set to the color corresponding to the hero's class (if the hero is native to that faction). That is, if a paladin enters the garrison, all basic units recruited will automatically be recolored to the higher tier. 3. Adaptive Recoloring. When a hero enters a city's garrison, when recruiting basic units that are already present in the hero's army, they are automatically added to the hero's army (with recoloring if necessary). For example, if a hero enters a garrison with knights (higher tier) and archers (alternative tier), then when recruiting basic swordsmen and basic archers, they will be recolored to the colors of the existing units and added to the corresponding stacks (swordsmen to the knights, archers to the archers). In all of these options, there are no problems with mini-artifacts because the units are recolored during recruitment. The simplest option is base recoloring because it does not require any complex actions, such as dragging the hero into the garrison.
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Offline Ment
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#1146
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1. No objections. Regarding points 2 and 3 – isn't it possible to exploit this by hiring several heroes and, as a result, freely changing the allegiance of troops as desired?
 

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Offline Nargott
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#1147
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Ment
1. No objections.
Regarding points 2 and 3 – isn't it possible to exploit this by hiring several heroes and freely changing the allegiance of troops as desired?
It is possible, but there are no exploits in the basic version.
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