Posts from MMH5.5 - Heroes of Might and Magic 5.5 Auto-translated

it was done this way to follow the same formula as for other perks
perk = 2 primary skills = 2*3.33% = 6.66% it was reduced to a little less because luck + offensive bonuses stack too well and increase the pace of the game too much in favor of might heroes with high attack stats.

Basically this is why all might hero choices seem weaker. They have a synergy between each other for free (no need for hero to do anything during battle). They are not weak; it is just that they look so compared to what they were.
Cheers.

If 0.0 causes problems, have you tried very small numbers like 0.01, 0.001, etc.?

I don't know; I will ask.

@Magnomagus will try with 0.0, and we will see how it goes.

Also, here is some info on the Combat tree.

The Combat secondary skill is weaker than the others; that is true. This is why all end perks are stronger to compensate - Preparation, armor spikes, Crushing blow + chain attack combo

This is why all end perks are stronger to compensate - Preparation, armor spikes, Crushing blow + chain attack combo

As I mentioned before, +1/+1 doesn't seem very strong, but +2/+2 (immediately, without waiting for level 20) is good (we are essentially spending 2 level-ups for such an effect).
So, for 2 level-ups: +2/+2 (which is less than +4) and +7.5% to retaliatory damage, which is approximately +4 (in total).

Nargott,

Just did a quick test Armorer decrease magic damage by 15% combined with forge master you get roughly ~33% . Not sure why it does not cut it at 35% as it should.

Regarding the "Armored spikes" change that you propose, I had the following thought. All perks should be equal in strength all the time (if possible).

"armored spikes" competes with "preparation" and "Stunning strike".

"Preparation" is very strong indeed but only late game when the hero is pumped up. Early game it does not help too much.

"Stunning strike" is ok throughout the whole game with its help the player can totally disable one of the enemy stack but it also powers up a bit later when the units you have are upgraded are a bit faster (because it is combined with "Chain strike").

If "Armored spikes" give +4 at once it will be way too big of a buff for early game. Frankly I do not think it matters much even if it did work the way you are proposing because the skill points in MMH55 benefit the player way less than in ToTe.

I did forward the change to Magnomagus but my opinion is that it is ok as it is.

Cheers.

Just did a quick test. Armorer decreases magic damage by 15%, combined with Forge Master, you get roughly ~33%. Not sure why it doesn't cut it at 35% as it should.

85% * 80% = 68% (32%)

If "Armored spikes" give +4 at once, it will be way too big of a buff for the early game. Frankly, I don't think it matters much even if it did work the way you are proposing because the skill points in MMH5 benefit the player way less than in ToTe.

I invest two whole level-ups into these +2/+2 (one - to increase the useless passive skill by +7.5% retaliatory damage). I can definitely say that in its current form, I will never invest in +1/+1 before level 20 (when the bonus becomes +2/+2). That is, if I was still unsure whether the Hyrdas would pay off, here there are no doubts - the perk is useless for its cost (2 level-ups) until level 20.
I highly doubt that a +2/+2 bonus can break anything in the early game. And it's not +4, but specifically +2/+2 (which is usually weaker).
On the other hand, there is an alternative in the form of x1.5 damage, which definitely combines with the Avenger's Strike, and therefore is more appealing, and after that - take Support. And all this is clearly more attractive than some +1/+1.

Nargott, I think there's been some misunderstanding on my part. Let me know if I understand this correctly.

I'm investing two whole level-ups into these +2/+2 (one for increasing a useless, passing skill by +7.5% for retaliatory damage). I can say for sure that in its current form, I will never invest in +1/+1 before level 20 (when the bonus becomes +2/+2). That is, if I was still unsure whether the "Horde" skill would be worthwhile, there are no doubts here – the perk is useless for its cost (2 level-ups) until level 20.

"Armor spikes" perk says it will give +1/+1 now and another +1/+1 at level 20. This means that even if you pick the skill at level 7, the skill will be automatically upgraded at level 20; there is no need to wait until the hero becomes level 20+ to get it.

"Combat" skill for might heroes is a bit like "Sorcery" for mages; a great portion of its usefulness kicks in the middle and late phase of the game because of synergies between units and stats.

85% * 80% = 68% (32%)

Makes sense!

"Armor spikes" perk says it will give +1/+1 now and another +1/+1 at level 20. This means that even if you pick the skill at level 7, the skill will be automatically upgraded at level 20; there is no need to wait until the hero becomes level 20+ to get it.

"Combat" skill for might heroes is a bit like "Sorcery" for mages; a great portion of its usefulness kicks in the middle and late phase of the game because of synergies between units and stats.

I understand, but there's no point in enduring a weak skill until level 20 just for it to become only normal (not strong) after level 20.
The word "synergy" can justify any numbers, so I usually look at the numbers first. The bonus is small (7.5%), and it's also rare/situational, only for retaliatory attacks. And if I'm going to sit and endure it for retaliatory attacks (where the main damage will be dealt by them + ranged attacks), then it won't synergize with "Readiness," which is in a completely different branch, incompatible with +1/+1.

In general, the limitation you've set – "skills with +2" – greatly hinders the game, in my opinion. Because even in the original game, +2 was a below-average bonus; normally, in-demand skills were valued at +2-3, and the best ones at 4 and higher. In your game, the strength of characteristics is reduced by 1.5 times (from 5% to 3.33%). That is, you are essentially leveling the skills to the level of +1.33 (if calculated in the original 5% characteristics). This makes it very difficult to balance skills at such a low level. For example, the same skill with +1 speed is valued at 4-5 of the original parameter (in Random Tactical Arena), i.e., at +6, translating to your 3.33% characteristics. And many other skills are also many times stronger than +2. For example, Empowered Spells.

What I will try to level up in your game are only fundamental skills that give a good bonus, and the skills leading to them. And all sorts of "+2 to a parameter" will only be taken as a last resort if nothing better is offered. With the exception of witchcraft and knowledge in the early game, which have not yet become devalued as in the late game.
Even an enhanced skill up to +2/+2 is unlikely to be leveled up; instead, I will focus on "Readiness" in this skill (if it is really as good as you say), or strong hero attacks. Neither of these is enhanced by +2/+2. Therefore, it would be best if such a skill didn't exist at all, as it would make it easier to level up other skills in this branch.

You can justify any numbers with the word "synergy," so I usually look at the numbers first.

This is where we part ways. The mod is based on the human factor first and the numbers later.

In theory, all the numbers you present are correct, but in practice, it is just not possible to do.
It is very hard to just "keep that skill away" and pick it in level 20 or later. It just does not work that easily. We already discussed the level-up offering mechanic.

We refer to numbers as far as they actually matter. Denomination in the MMH5 stats has allowed us to narrow some of the problems by "eye" rather than by the math.

Math is just theory and logic, and don't get me wrong, I use it a lot. I am a fan of big data and machine learning operations, but big data fails in the long run without thick data. The human factor is the highest priority when it comes to service, and this is what we try to achieve.

What I mean by the human factor is the following:
- Let's assume +1/+1 is weak, and we make it +2/+2, and you go and pick it.

+2/+2 offers a 3.33% damage and resistance boost, which is insignificant in the first 10-20 levels due to the low army size. Basically, if the player makes a wrong maneuver, the bonus (or the absence) of +1/+1 will not help or penalize the player. This is why I consider investing time in rethinking any of those options a waste of time, which can be invested, for example, in developing new stuff for the game.

We refer to numbers as far as they actually matter. Denomination in the MMH55 stats has allowed us to narrow some of the problems by an "eye" than by the math.

Here, the issue also lies in subjective perception. Personally, I really dislike weak bonuses, like in Heroes 6. Yes, in theory, they can become useful after N months of gameplay, against the backdrop of other skills that have become so outdated that they are almost useless. But if I choose a skill, I aim to not drag it out until the point when it becomes meaningless.

Perhaps, there is a fundamental contradiction in tastes - as I mentioned before, I never play games for 3+ months.
For me, 2% always looks like 2%, regardless of the time frame, army size, and what I have upgraded. I don't see any synergy. Instead, I see the decline of magical parameters against the backdrop of the overall increase in the number of troops. And the decline of those skills that lose their relevance at this stage, i.e., in terms of percentage, they start to work weakly. This, by the way, is one of the reasons why I don't like long games.

If you don't like strong bonuses for parameters, and I don't like weak ones, then there is a compromise solution - remove all such skills from the game that don't give anything other than these bonuses. Why waste a level-up on something that can be obtained through artifacts, bonus buildings on the map, or simply through natural level growth?
I'm not insisting on anything - I'm just suggesting possible options for consideration.

It is very hard to just "keep that skill away" and pick it in level 20 or later. It just does not work that easily. We already discussed the level up offering mechanic.

In practice, I will upgrade other skills, without waiting for level 20. And I will take +2/+2 at best, only when it is offered after level 20, if by that time the skill has not already been chosen (which depends on how early it started to be upgraded). At best means that if there are no other important skills that are stronger than "+2/+2" for 2 level-ups.

You see, the fundamental problem when a skill is supposedly imbalanced is that it can be easily tested in practice: the player upgrades it and confirms their rightness/wrongness. But when a skill is supposedly too weak, the player simply won't upgrade it and test its balance. In this regard, there is no point in arguing about whether a skill is weak or not; it should look good externally, or it won't be chosen. And this does not depend on who is right on the forum.

- Lets assume +1/+1 is weak and we make it +2/+2 and you go and pick it.

+2/+2 will immediately look better than +1/+1 with a long wait for +2/+2 (an improvement to the game). However, this is still not the best option from the point of view of game interest.
So, if you are interested in my opinion, then:
1) removing this skill (with or without replacement) is the best solution
2) increasing it to +2/+2 is a good solution

This is why I consider investing time in rethinking any of those options a waste of time which can be invested for example in developing new stuff for the game.

If you consider the presence of unappealing skills acceptable, that's fine - let's close this topic.
I can be helpful in discussing already implemented features and their optimal settings, but developing new stuff is less interesting to me (although, of course, it is important in your mod).

P.S. Keep me updated on how the testing of 0.0 ATB after mass spells is going; it is also very important to me that it works without breaking the game.

Personally, I always took stunning, support, and martial arts in the counterattack branch.
I've seen bonuses that are given when you have a certain ability; maybe it can be applied to armor and a couple of other skills. It gives +1/1 and, at level 20, +2 to defense if you have defense and +2 to attack if you have attack.
And is it possible to enhance the counterattack at all? And can you enhance the hero's attacks with this ability?
I also don't understand why the Cerberus's speed was reduced, or if it was reduced at all?
In the future, I would advise you to take some things from UNIT. There are many good changes there, but the best ones are:
-Swapping griffins and monks, hydras and witches, bears and bone crushers
-Buffing demons and Cerberuses
-Nerfing leaders
-Ice dragons
-Imperial archers
-Buffing dragons in Necropolis
-Buffing undead

Gives +1/1 and also at level 20, +2 to defense if defense is present, and +2 to attack if attack is present.

In this form, the ability becomes much more interesting.

And is it possible to further enhance the counterattack?

Yes, but the mod authors stopped at these numbers (although I also pointed out that the bonus is very small).

And can the hero's attacks be enhanced with this ability?

Technically, yes, by temporarily increasing the hero's level number before the battle. But this will also affect specializations and some spells that depend on the level.

Do you have a mod for 5.5 that features unique visual heroes, or something similar? I want to have a unique visual for my hero, something like this:

http://psatkha.narod.ru/AP/Alaric.jpg
or this
http://psatkha.narod.ru/AP/Bertrand.jpg

If it's possible, of course.

Is there any mod for 5.5 that provides unique hero appearances? I would be very grateful. I recently found a hero pack on another portal, but it has too many bugs. Thank you.

Regarding "Combat" and related perks. "Combat" skill, like "Sorcery," is not a good skill on its own. It is meant to complement other Might skills, just like "Sorcery" increases the efficiency of magic schools. "Combat" retaliation values are low because they stack with multiple bonuses from various skills and their perks, such as "Defense," "Offense," "Luck," "Leadership," and primary skills like "Attack" and "Defense." You can even include "Enlightenment" because it increases "Attack" and "Defense." Include the following perks: "Critical strike," "battle frenzy," "Retribution," "Vitality." The damage formula in MMH55 will be: damage*[1 +(attack - defense)*0.0333]*(1+modifiers) Let's say the attack/defense difference is 0, which it won't be if fighting against a mage. Modifiers are as follows: Expert attack = 0.2 Retribution (with leadership) = 0.125 Expert luck with critical strike ~ 0.25 Expert Combat ~ 0.25 Let's put them into the formula: 100*[1 +0*0.0333]*(1+0.2 + 0.125 +0.25 + 0.25) [100*1*1.825 182 damage Defense and vitality significantly increase the survivability of the army, so it stays longer and retaliates longer. Leadership passively increases the initiative of units, so they can retaliate more often. So the actual efficiency increase is way, way more than just the 82% that is seen above. All those bonuses are received by the Might hero army for free. All seven stacks benefit from them from start to the end of the battle. Meanwhile, the hero is free to cast magic or do hits to further cripple the opponent or increase the efficiency of his own army. I really do not understand why you consider Combat weak. Yes, it may not seem like a good pick early game, the same goes for Sorcery and Occultism, as they are bad without any school proficiency. But this is why Combat offers the "Hero melee" perks, which do very well on their own. During the making of the mod, we wanted to make the Might heroes able to hit harder than the mage heroes. Unfortunately, it was not possible because it was a single value in "default stats" for all heroes. This is where the "Combat" perk "martial arts" came into play. It increases Might hero melee damage by 50%, which is further improved by the level bonuses granted by the "Chain strike," "Avenging strike," and "retaliation strike" skills. Note: This damage is even further increased by the "Avenger" perk tree. Sylvan, Ranger class is amazing when it comes to sniping creatures with the hero. The "Armored spikes" perk is meant to strengthen the efficiency of retaliation; this is why it gives both "attack and defense." I cannot comprehend how the bonus for a certain perk is considered weak or strong without first matching it to the whole picture. Nargott, regarding the changes you want for a shorter game. A shorter game does not mean that when the heroes meet, they will be low levels. The shortest game I have played was on a small ARMG map with a "very strong" monsters setting where player A and player B start in their own zones, and there is one high-tier zone that connects them. We went for a very early clash, and our heroes were as high as level 12-13. It just cannot get lower than that because players get those levels by cleaning their zones. By going outside the native zone and killing some units, the hero gains up to level 20 with quite a pace. Mid-length games (month 3-4) have heroes at level 20+. Actually, Combat "hero melee" damage is very good for small maps. When heroes meet early, they have not yet started to mass armies, and your hero is actually level 12-15. Combining "Combat" with "Balista" is a good early-game strategy for Might class heroes. There is also a way for even faster maps by removing the creatures guarding the zone entrances. Open MMH55-Templates.pak and on the connection entry, set to false. Regarding the MassSpell ATB: Waiting for Magnomagus to run the tests. I will drop a message as soon as he drops one to the community.

Еще не понял зачем церберам снизили скорость, или не снижали?
В дальнейшем я бы посоветовал бы вам взять некоторые вещи из UNIT. Там много хороших изменений, но лучшее это:
-Смена местами грифонов и монахов, гидр и ведьм, медведей и костоломов
-Усиление демонес и церберов
-Ослабление вожаков
-Ледяные драконы
-Имперские лучники
-Усиление драконов у некрополиса
-Усиление умертвий

Thanks for the mention! One of the Cerberi upgrades has speed reduced by 1 but hp and defense increased. Some kind of more durable version of the cerberi. We did it to add some variation as they were so similar they did not offer any strategical choice. Regarding the "UNIT" mod, we really try to keep the original spirit of the game, so we don't want to change any graphics or swap units. The only change in this department we want to do is swap Wraiths to Death Knights, but for this, we need 3 custom 3D models that fit Necropolis units' theme and colors. "UNIT" mod teleportation effects are from other in-game mechanics and do not look good at all. All other balancing stuff you mention is already made - the second bone dragon upgrade gets 10HP, Red dragon HP is reduced. Check all changes here -> http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43668 I did not check "UNIT" mod balancing thoroughly, but I noticed that one of the Haven archers' damage is increased to 6-10, which I cannot justify however I look at it. Just imagine what this stack will do in high numbers, probably even higher damage than Executioners with triple strike. This change also makes me doubt the relevance of other balancing alterations. I will check it out in the next few days when I have more time!

И можно ли усилить атаки героя этой способностью?

If the Nargott command exists in Quantomas' version of the mod, then it is possible. However, we have already increased base hero damage somewhere between 50 - 100%.

do you have mode like UVH unique visual hero for 5.5 or something like this, i want have unique visual for hero.

If you want to have a custom model for each hero, it is just impossible work. There are 8 factions with 3 classes with 6 heroes ~ 144 total heroes. We considered adding custom visuals per class, but we came up with the idea that we either add for all classes or none because it did not look good, and we do not have 18 professional models. However, Psatka's mod looks good! :) Do you know how many custom models there are inside? If there are enough for every class and they behave well on the map and inside the battleground, we may implement it.

Есть ли какая нибудь модификация для 5.5 в виде уникального внешнего вида героев ? буду очень благодарен, недавно нашёл пак героев на другом портале, но там слишком много багов, спасибо

Could you provide a link to this mod and some screenshots of the characters? I will forward this to the design team to see if they can make something from it.

I really don't understand why you consider Combat weak. Yes, it may not seem like a good pick early game, just like Sorcery and Occultism are bad without any school proficiency. But this is why Combat offers the "Hero melee" perks, which do very well on their own.

It's incorrect to compare it to Sorcery, which boosts spells, roughly up to 1.6 times (although mana consumption also increases proportionally)! This is a +60% bonus versus +5%. To make the +60% bonus work well, relatively little effort is required (just level up the magic school that receives this +60%). But to make the +5% bonus relative to magic work well, you need to level up your troops many times over – until magic no longer deals any significant damage (i.e., until the balance stops working).

Regarding Occultism, it's a perfectly ordinary average skill, providing about +2 to magic per skill level, and it looks great at the start when you have little magic. It's a standard +2 bonus, which gives many more advantages than Combat (a skill, not abilities).
Actually, I can only praise the implementation of Occultism: +1 to magic and standard magic penetration when playing Destructive Magic, and +2 to magic when playing any other magic where magic penetration doesn't work. This is very flexible!
But you could go even further: give a +1 bonus for each leveled magic school (from +0*3 to +4*3 = +12). This would motivate players to play multiple magic schools.

Modifiers are as follows:
Expert attack = 0.2
Retribution (with leadership) = 0.125
Expert luck with critical strike ~ 0.25
Expert Combat ~ 0.25

Without Expert Combat: 157% damage for all attacks/ranged attacks.
With Expert Combat: a total of 182% damage for retaliatory attacks, 157% damage for direct attacks/ranged attacks.
So, out of 5 attacks, it would be approximately:
- 3 direct attacks, 157%
- 1 retaliatory attack, 182%
- 1 ranged attack, 157%
Total average damage: 162%.
Investing 3 level-up points (!) into a 5% increase in overall damage is ridiculous. And it doesn't matter that +62% looks "impressive," because +57% of it is due to other, useful perks.
If you only look at the "big picture" and don't analyze what exactly this ability added (before and after), then you can justify any, no matter how small, ability, even +0.1% to damage (and, in the extreme, +0% to damage).

I admit that the abilities from the Combat skill may be quite strong (if you compare them to weak abilities with +2). But the point is that the basic skill itself is weak and is just a stepping stone to its abilities (an additional cost for obtaining tasty abilities), and hence the complaints about the mediocre +1/+1 ability, which is not tasty enough to justify leveling up the mediocre skill.

But if the goal is to strengthen the skill itself, so that it is not just a stepping stone with almost zero value, then there are 2 options:
1) +33/67/100% to retaliatory damage – this looks generally good, but specifically when playing with Readiness, it may be too risky.
2) bonuses as they are now (up to +25%), but additionally +1/+1 to attack/defense for each skill level

If you want to have a custom model for each hero is just impossible work. There are 8 factions with 3 classes with 6 heroes ~ 144 total heroes.
We considered adding custom visuals per class but we came up to the idea that we either add for all classes or none because it did not look good and we do not have 18 professional models.

However Psatka's mod looks good! :) Do you know how many custom models there are inside?
If there are enough for every class and they behave well on the map and inside the battleground we may implement it.

Could you provide link to this mod and some screenshots of the characters? I will forward this to the design team to see if they can make something from it.[/QUOTE]

In 5.5 many heroes with a unique look, Godric, Isabel, Frida, and other heroes from the company, however some heroes do not have a unique look, Giovanni, Alaric, some heroes have one class, they have different unique textures, there are many good patterns with Unique textures

here's link
http://psatkha.narod.ru/uvh_heaven.html

You can add some characters with good textures, such as Rutger, Axel, Bertrand and other heroes of this faction

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=42912
There are many heroes with good textures, dark elves, heven, orcs, they have good textures, but there are many bad characters with bugs that can be removed, and leave only the characters that look good

I would give a bonus to the level, and call the skill, for example, "art of strategy." The hero becomes a good tactician and fights well at the same time.
And I also don't understand the need for necromancy for all the dark classes. Maybe it could affect morale and characteristics?