Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.

Good news: Foenix is currently actively developing WarGame Arena (WGA), an RTA analogue based on WGE. The essence of RTA is that it is an arena for rapid hero leveling, purchasing artifacts and troops, followed immediately by a final battle between players.

The fundamental difference between WGA and RTA is the addition of a construction phase, meaning the arena includes: rapid city building, hero leveling, purchasing artifacts and troops, and the final battle.

Like leveling, construction is implemented serially, i.e., over 1 day. Each time, the player makes only 2 clicks: build a structure and return to the construction screen (B button). During this time, the city is automatically rebuilt and returns the player to the city screen, but now with the ability to build again. The "day of the week" number for construction is shown by the last digit of the gold in the player's account. The "construction days" themselves are skipped automatically upon the erection of a particular building, with the exception of the 7th day of each "week." On the 7th day, a pause is made to buy out all creatures, as unbought creatures vanish. As soon as all creatures are bought, the "day" is automatically skipped and the transition to the next "week" occurs. If a player cannot or does not want to buy all troops, they must visit the Thieves' Guild on the map (near the city) with their hero, which allows the transition to the next week manually. Simultaneously with the transition to the next week, the player receives information from the guild about the enemy city at the end of that same week (a mirrored city of the opponent is shown, in which the purchased garrison and the presence of fortifications can be seen).

Player's starting resources: 3 thousand gold, 3 of each rare resource, and 6 each of wood and ore.
Starting bonuses: 3 thousand gold, 6 portions of profile resources, or 1 random minor artifact.
Starting cities: with a tavern and a fort/Mages' Guild (depending on the faction), additionally, player 2 has a town hall (city level is 1 higher).
Number of "construction days" is 16 for player 1 (ends on day 2 of week 3) and 15 for player 2 (ends on day 1 of week 3).
At the beginning of each "construction day," including the first, the player is given 10 portions of random resources.

1 portion = 1 rare resource, 2 wood/ore, or 500 gold. A portion corresponds to the amount of resources obtained when taking the corresponding resource pile on a full-scale map (in WGE mechanics).

On day 14 (day 7 of week 2), each player receives additional gold income equal to the total cost of the week 1 garrison (the troops they bought in week 1).
At the end of construction (after all buildings are constructed), each player receives similar income, but based on the total cost of the week 2 garrison (the troops they bought in weeks 1 and 2). Thus, creatures bought early have time to pay off, and the earliest ones may even pay off twice and bring a profit (simulating a situation where early-bought creatures speed up the clearing and gold acquisition). In addition, at the end of construction, each player receives an additional 30 portions of resources, which is usually necessary for buying tier 7 creatures if available (simulating visiting large banks/utopias).

And now the most important detail regarding portion generation. Although portion generation is random, it adapts to the needs of the chosen build and the player can control it by setting priorities (similar to how they collect resources on the map)! The first basic principle is: the less a player has of a certain resource (except gold), the higher the chance of receiving it, and vice versa. The second basic principle is: the more total resources a player has (except gold), the higher the chance of receiving gold, and vice versa. The specific formula:
Chance of giving a resource in a random portion = (15 - X)%, where X is the number of portions of this resource the player has (the amount of rare resource, or 50% of the amount of wood/ore).
Chance of giving gold in a random portion = (100 - Y)%, where Y is the total chance of generating any other resource.

For profile resources, other constants are used instead of the base chance of 15:
Humans: chance 20 for wood, ore, and crystals.
Elves: chance 20 for wood and crystals, chance 25 for gems.
Wizards: chance 20 for gems and sulfur.
Dungeon: chance 20 for gems, mercury, and crystals, chance 25 for sulfur.
Undead: chance 20 for ore and gems, chance 25 for mercury.
Demons: chance 20 for wood, sulfur, and mercury.
Dwarves: chance 20 for ore, crystals, and sulfur.
Orcs: chance 20 for mercury and crystals.

The general rule is that profile racial resources have a chance modifier of +5%, and another +5% if level 7 creatures actively consume that same resource in large quantities (angels, necrodragons, light and dark dragons).

There is also an external market on the arena near the city, which allows exchanging missing resources. At the end of construction, the market allows automatically exchanging all existing resources for gold + the missing racial resource in the exact amount needed to buy all tier 7 creatures (if available) in 1 click. Also, when visiting the Thieves' Guild at the end of construction, the player is shown the total value of all purchased creatures in the city garrison, which allows conclusions to be drawn about the strength of a particular build (based on 3 criteria: obtained troops, gold, and the level of constructed spells/cries/runes).

Is there a specific release date for the new version?

I like the idea, but RTA and all its derivatives ruin the strategic aspect of the game. After all, Heroes is primarily a strategy game. Actually, I had an idea – limit the maximum hero level from 40 to 20. This would make the strategic genius of the player the deciding factor, rather than an overpowered hero, as the role of armies would increase compared to the role of the hero himself, which would increase the importance of capturing mines/cities/dwarves, etc. – that is, the strategic aspect would become more important, and losing the first battle between the main heroes would not be a death sentence for the defeated player. Otherwise, everyone likes to create an overpowered hero and then use this thing that is commonly called "total domination." P.S. I anticipate that I will now be showered with rotten tomatoes :D

Added 3 minutes later
I understand that the issue of high hero levels can be solved by increasing the amount of experience required to reach the next level, but this is only a partial solution, in my opinion

I like the idea, but RTA and all its derivatives ruin the strategic aspect of the game. After all, Heroes is primarily a strategy game.
Actually, I had this thought – limit the maximum level of heroes from 40 to 20 – then it will really be the strategic genius of the player that decides, and not an uber-hero, and the role of armies will also increase in comparison to the role of the hero himself. Otherwise, everyone likes to create an uber-hero and then use something called "total clearing".
PS: I anticipate that rotten tomatoes will now be thrown at me:D

Added 3 minutes later
I understand that the issue with the high level of the hero can be solved by increasing the amount of experience required to reach the next level, but this is only a partial solution, in my opinion.

better up to 25, then you can upgrade the super ability:smile47:

it's better to be level 25, then you can upgrade the super ability:smile47:

P.S. I edited the message above to convey my thought more accurately:D

Added after 40 seconds
In this mod, the super ability is tied to the Amulet of Mastery, and level 25 is not required

Added after 6 minutes
besides, I really don't like that some online games boil down to just one battle (which players sometimes even agree on beforehand - like "are you ready? then I attack") and that's it... that is, it doesn't even resemble a cooperative game - they level up in their starting location, feast on monsters, play one battle, and that's it... that is, all interaction between players is just one battle, but where is the strategy here? - capturing territories, holding them, creating several armies fighting in several directions, and performing different tasks (defensive or offensive, for example), proper deployment of forces on the world map, luring into a trap with some bait-hero or a seemingly abandoned valuable mine, etc

I like the idea, but RTA and all its derivatives ruin the strategic part of the game. After all, Heroes is primarily a strategy game.

It's like duels, but you create your own character and army. Similar to a quick skirmish in Erathia.

It's like duels, but you create your own character and army.

Thanks, Captain :smile40:
It's obvious anyway; this game format only implies a tactical component, and you won't find a strategic component here – I was actually writing about this above.

I like the idea, but RTA and all its derivatives kill the strategic part of the game. After all, Heroes is primarily a strategy game.

In RTA, there is no city development, but here there is. Moreover, the development is very non-linear, considering the new schemes. You can come up with dozens of different builds for the same faction, and many ways to improve a particular build by including certain buildings or changing the order of construction. And here, the order matters, since the entire subsequent resource generation depends on the expenditure of resources.

When I was thinking about builds that would lead to the maximum number of horses (knights), I felt like a Korean Starcraft player, looking for the perfect timings for building certain buildings, in order to maximize the chance of successfully implementing a build (which also needs to be chosen from many alternatives). And you are talking about killing the strategic part of the game. The meaning of strategy lies in the efficient management of resources, and this is literally implemented through construction. In my opinion, construction is a much more interesting part of the game than even hero development, because development does not operate with the player's resources, while construction directly works with them.

For example, playing as Dungeon, you can go for a magic build, through beasts/witches/dragons, while discarding minotaurs OR assassins (you won't have time to build other units), or you can go for a maximum combat build, on assassins, minotaurs, lizards, and hydras under a Castle (you won't have time to build other units). And these are just 2 opposite options out of a hundred. Isn't that strategy?
You can play for early economy (building a capitol on the first week), sacrificing tempo for building creatures, you can ignore the economy on the first week (without a town hall), and instead quickly develop it on the second week, or you can not even build a capitol or even a magistrate, some builds are quite capable of playing on a low economy.

In general, I had an idea - to limit the maximum level of heroes from 40 to 20 - that would really make the ultimate hero decisive.

It doesn't matter, because most of the final battles in WGE will still end between levels 10 and 20. The game time simply won't allow you to level up heroes higher. Level 20 is simply redundant.
Specifically, on the arena, levels 12-15 are planned (starting at 12, the rest for money), rarely 16 and higher.
Note that only 15-16 "days" are given for construction, which means that a final battle on the 3rd week is simulated, and this is with full city development (not a rush). In this time, you can develop any thematic city build (by building 60% of all buildings). If you prolong the game longer, it is actually the endgame.

besides, I really don't like the fact that some network games boil down to just one battle (which players sometimes even agree on - like "are you ready? then I attack") and that's it... that is, it doesn't even look like a cooperative game - they leveled up in their starting location, ate on mobs, played one battle and that's it... that is, all the interaction between players is one battle, but where is the strategy here? - capturing territories, holding them, creating several armies fighting in several directions, and performing different tasks (defensive or offensive, for example), the correct placement of forces on the world map, luring into a trap with some bait hero or a seemingly abandoned valuable mine, etc.

I have been writing about this for a long time, so that there is no such mess, the game should be dynamic. When an opponent can kill you at any minute, from the first week of the game, you will no longer be able to calmly clear the map for months. Interaction between players should occur from the first week.

Specifically, on the arena, such interaction is also implemented, at the construction stage, albeit only through weekly reconnaissance of the enemy garrison, but this already gives a lot of information about what strategy the opponent is going for, what creatures he is building, and what he is not, where he has upgrades, whether he is building a fast economy, or many troops, or going into magic, or going into early technologies (angels or horses on the 1st week).

And once again, I remind you that the arena is a transitional stage to a full-fledged map, just as duels were a transitional stage to the arena. The sequence of the WGE project development is as follows:
WGT (Wargame Tactics) - duels, troops, magic
WGA (Wargame Arena) - cities, heroes, artifacts
WGS (Wargame Standard) - full-fledged map
WGC (Wargame Classic) - a game with already ready armies and already developed cities (actually the endgame, a snapshot of the game, starting from the 3rd week)

I cannot jump to WGS, bypassing WGA, because it is in WGA that the balancing of heroes, artifacts, and cities will take place - that basis on which the Standard will subsequently be based.

Well, let's just say it's an economic strategy; I mean, a combat strategy – the direct actions on the map, the distribution of forces, and so on. In general, it would be very good if, within WGE, a GSC (Game Scenario Creation) group was created to create dynamic maps (we've already discussed this above) – as far as I understand, rta (real-time action) appeared precisely because most games cannot be played quickly and in one go (even playing on small maps sometimes takes a long time, not to mention large maps where the game turns into a "late game").

Is there an exact release date for the new version?

New versions are released almost every day, but that's mostly for internal testing.

I stream the WGA construction gameplay almost daily. The other arena stages are still in development and haven't been tested yet. If you're interested in how the construction and new city layouts work, I can upload a map.

Well, let's just say it's an economic strategy. I mean the combat strategy – the direct actions on the map, the distribution of forces, and so on. In general, it would be very good if a map generation system (MGS) was created within WGE to create dynamic maps (we've already discussed this above) – as far as I understand, rta (real-time arena) appeared precisely because most games cannot be played quickly and in one go (even playing on small maps sometimes takes a long time, not to mention large maps where the game turns into a "late game").

To be honest, I don't believe in MGS. StarCraft doesn't have an MGS – all tournament/ladder maps are created manually. At most, a good MGS can fine-tune an existing map (template), adding random elements or visibility. In any case, manual maps are primary, and only based on them can templates and MGS be created.

I stream the mapmaking gameplay in WGA almost every day.

Could you provide a link to the stream where everything is explained in the most detail (since you stream almost every day, there are probably many of them; I need the most informative one).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPLW4Z4aDrI

A rating system has been implemented to evaluate the overall effectiveness of builds (meat, magic, spells). The rating is displayed when visiting the thieves' guild after the construction phase is complete. The calculation principle is as follows: (total value of purchased meat) / 10k + (remaining gold) / 20k + magic (value of guild levels: 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.4 + 0.5 + 0.6) + racial bonuses Top-tier Human builds (for the first player): Build notations: - Weeks are listed separated by commas (first, second, third) - Numbers indicate the tier levels - Numbers with a plus sign indicate upgrades (if upgrades are placed separately from the base, on the following week, they are indicated in parentheses) - Cap, Mag, Rat - Capitol, Magistrate, Town Hall - Castle, Stronghold, Fort - Castle, Stronghold, Fort (if they are passage buildings, they may not be indicated for brevity) - GuildN - guild of the corresponding level (if it is a passage building, it may not be indicated for brevity) Capitol Start (early capitol: maximum gold, minimum meat) Approximately 50 effective 8.0+ builds were reviewed on the stream, from which the best were selected: Militia Debut Cap123, Stronghold4+7, (1+)Guild4 = 8.4 (meat 4.4, magic 1.4, gold 5.1 / 2) Cap123, Castle4+, Guild4 = 8.3 (meat 3.6, magic 1.4, gold 6.5 / 2) Cap123, Castle56+, (1+)Guild1 = 8.3 (meat 5.7, magic 0.2, gold 4.9 / 2) Griffin Debut Cap25, Castle3+6+(5+), (2+)Guild1 = 8.4 (meat 5.8, magic 0.2, gold 4.9 / 2) Cap25, Castle13+6+, (1+)Guild1 = 8.3 (meat 5.7, magic 0.2, gold 4.8 / 2) Cap25, 34+7, (2+)Guild4 = 8.3 (meat 4.7, magic 1.4, gold 4.4 / 2) Stronghold Debut CapStronghold23, Castle(3+)46+, (4+) = 8.3 (meat 5.3, magic 0.5, gold 5.1 / 2) CapStronghold23, Castle(3+)456, (4+) = 8.3 (meat 5.5, magic 0.5, gold 4.5 / 2) CapStronghold23, Castle1(3+)56+, (1+)Guild1 = 8.3 (meat 5.7, magic 0.2, gold 4.9 / 2) CapStronghold23, Castle4+5, Guild4 = 8.3 (meat 3.9, magic 1.4, gold 5.9 / 2) Monk Debut Cap124, (4+)57, (1+)Guild4 = 8.4 (meat 4.6, magic 1.4, gold 4.9 / 2) Cap124, Stronghold(4+)7+, (1+)Guild4 = 8.3 (meat 4.6, magic 1.4, gold 4.6 / 2) Non-standard debuts (not included in the top): Progressive Debut (some options are listed): Cap34, Castle(34+)6, Guild4 = 8.1 (meat 3.8, magic 1.4, gold 5.8 / 2) Cap34, Stronghold(4+)57+, (3+)Guild4 = 8.0 (meat 4.5, magic 1.4, gold 4.2 / 2) Cap34, Castle(3+)56+, (4+) = 8.0 (meat 5.2, magic 0.5, gold 4.7 / 2) Progressive Debut, Stronghold variant CapStronghold4, Castle(4+)57, (5+)Guild4 = 8.0 (meat 4.0, magic 1.4, gold 5.2 / 2) Economic Start (early Magistrate) ...will be reviewed later Standard Start (early Town Hall) ...will be reviewed later Meat Start (without an early Town Hall) ...will be reviewed later Training Builds (with the construction of training halls) ...will be reviewed later The arena is a very convenient tool for testing builds, as it clearly shows any imbalances in the strength of buildings and prices. The arena should provide a good idea of the game on the map, both in terms of the strengths/weaknesses of a particular build and the overall game dynamics. Through experimentation, the optimal day for the final construction phase was established for the arena - the 16th (for the first player) and the 15th (for the second player). During this time, 60% of the new buildings are constructed (15-16 buildings out of 25-26 + 3-4 starting buildings). Accordingly, the full-fledged map will also be tailored to these timelines, plus or minus a week. On the fourth week, from a construction point of view, there is absolutely nothing to do (only to simply complete the city to its maximum). And on the first week, many builds have not yet had time to develop (a period for rushes). If before this I thought that in theory it was necessary to focus on timelines of about 10-14 days, now I am convinced of this in practice (with a slight shift towards 15-16). This time is enough not only to complete the development of any thematic build but also to fine-tune it with a couple of buildings at the end (like an extra guild or an additional upgrade). So far, I am very satisfied with the results of testing for Humans; the city scheme works 100% as intended, and the prices adequately reflect the value of the buildings. During the stream, I managed to analyze about 50 basic effective builds (not counting variations of final tuning), and this is only for the Capitol start for the first player (a rough estimate is that this is 10% of all possible builds!). Other starts (economic, standard, meat, training) and openings for the second player (which have a fundamentally different pace) remained behind the scenes. But I also conducted internal testing on them; they are approximately equal in effectiveness, without significant imbalances (at the moment).

As far as I understand, magic is not needed for the Barbarian at all – summons are calculated not based on the magic level, but on the hero's level. The only place where magic is applicable is the "magic resistance" perk, but it's not very effective (in my opinion) – would it make sense to make the penalty to the opponent's magic equal to the Barbarian's magic, instead of 1/2 of the Barbarian's magic?

A bit of a lyrical digression regarding the overall sizes and power ratios of the creatures. These are details that cannot be read in any Asghan handbook, but can be inferred and calculated based on visual proportions and common sense.

General "table of ranks" (unit strength in WGE):

1 = goblin (+basic militia)
1.25 = gremlin, fairy
1.5 = militia (upgrades), imp
1.75 = skeleton
2 = guardian, pikeman, zombie
2.25 = demon, gargoyle
2.5 = assassin, archer
3 = dancer, berserker, ghost
3.5 = succubus, shaman
4 = beast, bruiser, swordsman
4.5 = cerberus
5 = hunter, golem, centaur
6 = monk, druid
7 = minotaur, mage
8 = bear, predator, priest
9 = nightmare, unicorn
10 = vampire, Knight, chieftain, witch, griffon
15 = lich, djinn, wyvern
20 = balor, reaper, rakshasa
30 = hydra, treant, tan, angel, devil, necrodragon
60 = light/dark/dwarf dragon, titan, cyclops

Humans: weight 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Knight: weight 800-1000 kg (horse + rider)
Griffon: weight 250 kg, wingspan 10 m
Angel: weight 200 kg, height 2.5 m, wingspan 10 m

Conclusions:
- griffons and knights are roughly equal, considering the former's flight category (which is why griffons were moved from tier 4 to 5)

Fairy: weight 20 kg, height 1.25 m
Elves: weight 60 kg, height 1.75 m
Unicorn: weight 400 kg
Treant: weight 1000 kg, height 4 m
Light Dragon: weight 1000 kg, wingspan 20 m, length 12 m

Conclusions:
- elves are light and significantly inferior to humans in physical strength;
- a treant is many times stronger than a knight, as it exceeds the rider in weight by more than 10 times, and the horse lacks sufficient mass to knock over a treant;
- the weight of dragons requires a significantly larger wingspan than what Nival drew

Gremlin: weight 25 kg, height 1.25 m
Gargoyle: weight 50 kg, height 1 m, wingspan 2 m
Golem: weight 200 kg, height 2 m
Mage: weight 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Djinn: weight 200 kg, height 2.5 m
Rakshasa: weight 400-500 kg, height 3 m
Titan: weight 3000 kg, height 5 m

Conclusions:
- golems are strong

Dwarves: weight 90 kg, height 1.5 m
Armored Bear (bear + rider): weight 600 kg
Tan: weight 900 kg, height 3 m
Fire Dragon: weight 3000 kg, height 4 m

Conclusions:
- dwarves are very stocky and exceed humans in physical strength;
- bears are very strong, many times heavier than berserkers, and close in strength to knights (which is why they were moved from tier 3 to 4)

Imp: weight 25 kg, height 1 m
Demon: weight 120 kg
Succubus: weight 75 kg, height 2 m
Cerberus: weight 150-200 kg
Nightmare: weight 400 kg
Balor: weight 600 kg
Devil: weight 800 kg, height 3.5 m

Conclusions:
- cerberi are comparable to lions (which is why they were moved from tier 3 to 4)

Skeleton: weight (15) 30 kg, height 1.75 m
Zombie: weight 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Ghost: weight 35 kg, height 1.75 m
Vampire: weight 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Lich: weight (15) 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Reaper: weight 250 kg, height 2.5 m
Necrodragon: weight 200 kg, wingspan 18 m, length 12 m

Conclusions:
- natural skeletons are too light; reinforcing spells are necessary to increase the weight and strength of the bones

Dark Elves: weight 60 kg, height 1.75 m
Minotaurs: weight 250 kg, height 2.5 m
Predator (lizard + rider): weight 250 kg
Hydra: weight 2000-2500 kg, height 5 m
Dark Dragon: weight 700 kg, wingspan 16 m, length 10 m

Conclusions:
- minotaurs are very strong, comparable to cavalry;
- hydras are incredibly massive (which is why they were moved from tier 5 to 6);
- dark dragons are smaller than light dragons (which is logical for the Dungeon)

Goblin: weight 25 kg, height 1.25 m
Shaman: weight 75 kg, height 1.75 m
Orc: weight 125 kg, height 2 m
Centaur: weight 300 kg
Chieftain (ogre): weight 450 kg, height 3 m
Wyvern: weight 350 kg, wingspan 13 m, height 3 m
Cyclops: weight 3000 kg, height 5 m

Conclusions:
- orcs overwhelm with brute force, exceeding humans several times over (but they lack good armor);
- centaurs are too powerful, comparable to light cavalry (which is why they were moved from tier 2 to 4);
- chieftains are large enough to handle mounted knights 1 on 1;
- wyverns are quite close in dimensions to real extinct pterosaurs—quetzalcoatluses (whose weight was estimated up to 250 kg and wingspan up to 11 m)

General conclusions:
- no epically absurd gigantism (titans or dragons the size of a Boeing);
- all absurd imbalances that were unrealistic from a physics standpoint have been corrected (such as centaurs on tier 2 or hydras on 5);
- the power ratio by weight category between flyers and ground units is roughly maintained (it is known that by using dive attacks, golden eagles can kill predators many times their own mass, such as young wolves)

Why this specific scale, and why are dragons so light/small (700-1000 kg for flyers, and the fire Godzilla is 3 tons)?
1) because it matches the visual scale of the game
2) because dragons are flyers (the closest real analogue is the quetzalcoatlus with a similar wingspan and weight up to 250 kg)
3) because a dragon should be equal to a colossus/titan in strength, and there is no point in making a colossus/titan higher than 5 meters (3 human heights), and the natural weight of such a giant is 2-3 tons
4) because Tyrannosaurus rex was OP and had no counters; they were banned back in the Paleogene patch, thus they didn't survive until the game's release, nor did any other monsters of corresponding size (fire Godzillas are twice as small)
5) because equipping an entire army just to kill one monster of epic proportions is not heroic (it's heroic to beat the beast with a small but tight-knit squad)

Why don't flying animals (griffons, wyverns) have riders?
Because the riders are either too heavy (humans, orcs) or too cowardly (goblins). If griffons/wyverns had a significantly larger size than the stated 250-350 kg, the absence of riders would indeed look strange.