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Posts from Balance in HotA.

Horn of the Abyss / HOTA
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In reply to Marcus Aurelius
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Offline Wicc
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#108
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Marcus Aurelius
Nothing, the point is precisely to create competition for the wings and avoid situations where one player has them and the other doesn't.
This version is worth considering.
By the way, if templates with water are ever implemented, portals to troops would fit perfectly there, because there are no roads on the water, the geography is always inconvenient, and it's inconvenient to build chains between land and water due to the penalty, so no one might go into the water at all, and with these objects, there would be at least some motivation.
I hope that movement on the sea will be easier than it is now.
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Offline Marcus Aurelius
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#109
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Right now, an argument is coming to mind, probably one that has been discussed many times before: how would NWC react if they knew what could be done on the map with the current state of the game? I think that if any of them watched a stream of a top player today, they would have a heart attack. They would definitely take some measures back then. I'm not saying that we should ban chains and divisions now, but it would be good to take some relatively painless measures, like the ones I suggested, even if they don't quite align with the principles of Heroes balance. In this case, I think an exception could be made. I'm not even talking about the huge advantages and strategic diversity that these objects could bring to single-player games; on small tournament maps, these objects could simply be banned in the map settings, if that option is available. But for larger maps, especially G+, which are currently unplayable online due to overly long matches, these objects would play a very useful role and speed up the gameplay, making these maps playable.
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Offline Wicc
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#110
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However, for larger maps, especially G+, which are currently unplayable online due to excessively long matches, these objects would play a very useful role and speed up the gameplay, making these maps playable.
The duration of the game depends on only two factors: the timer and the average time to finish. And the average time to finish depends on two things: the average time to first contact with the opponent and the average time to an inevitable confrontation.

In most games, the strategy is built so that the main hero calmly levels up, while the attacking hero either attacks when there is nowhere else to level up (less often) or when the opponent is within the range of a day's travel (more often). Therefore, the game can be accelerated in two directions: either by placing leveling zones closer to each other, or by increasing the range of a day's travel.

Of the objects you mentioned, only the Pegasus stables influence this.
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Offline Marcus Aurelius
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#111
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Well, I think that the high density of external summoning and communication portals will significantly affect the speed of map exploration and clearing, and therefore the average time to first contact and the average time to inevitable confrontation. The faster the expansion, the faster the contact will occur. Correct me if I'm wrong :)
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Offline Wicc
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#112
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The speed of clearing/exploring the map mainly depends on the movement speed of the hero. Supplying troops rarely presents a significant difficulty. And clearing with units usually takes place in explored territory (and often on rough terrain), so it's better to call it "mopping up," meaning it has little impact on exploring the map.
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Offline Marcus Aurelius
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#113
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Okay, let's consider a specific example. Let's take Jebus Cross, as the most spectacular and popular template currently available. I heard somewhere that someone suggested creating a G-sized Jebus version. So, let's imagine we have a G-sized Jebus. What will be the most popular strategy for it? I think it will be the same as for a regular Jebus: several heroes spread out in different directions for scouting and resource gathering, while several heroes work in chains, clearing out various guards and objectives. Let's introduce a concept like "effective movement points." Effective movement points are those spent by a hero while simultaneously scouting the territory and clearing out guards, i.e., not performing unnecessary actions. Movement points spent running back and forth in chains and transporting troops are not effective. Movement points spent on scouting without clearing useful loot along the way are also not effective. So, how many effective movement points do we have with the usual strategy on Jebus? Not many. Now, let's consider a scenario with communication and summoning portals scattered everywhere. What will be the most popular strategy now? We spread out in all directions, and if we discover useful guarded loot in any direction, we immediately send troops there through the portal, and so on, i.e., expansion occurs simultaneously in all directions. How many effective movement points will we have in this case? More than in the first case. The more effective movement points, the faster we will obviously clear the map, reach the center, and meet the opponent.
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Offline Niemand
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#114
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how would NWC have reacted if they knew what could be done on a map?
They tried to fix their mistake by releasing Heroes of Might and Magic IV.
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Offline Marcus Aurelius
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#115
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I mixed up the sizes H and G :) Of course, I meant size H; G is still too large for online play. Another argument: communication portals will revive one-way monoliths, which currently isolate the hero and prevent troops from being sent back. Also, if a broken portal is introduced, teleporting the hero to a random point on the map, the communication portal will become a very interesting and in-demand object.
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Offline ЗнатокИгры
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#116
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A question arose regarding the balance in HotA. One of the most popular game formats in the lobby (second only to Jebus, I would say) is M200% (Arthas, Papich, default, Skirmish, and 2sm2c templates). I switched exclusively to HotA a year ago and regularly play this format. In the last couple of months, I've noticed that 90% of players pick Cove/Anabelle in every game. Moreover, I've started seeing more and more games in the lobby with notes like "no Cove" or "no Pirates," even from well-known veteran players with a rating of 400+. It's clear that M200% is inherently a random and unbalanced format because some Castles can exist without a particular resource, while others cannot; some heroes' starting armies allow them to break through guards, while others don't. In my opinion, the only relatively stable gameplay is with Castle/Slippers, Rampart/Ivory Tower, Fortress/Whitestone, and Cove. But despite this, I used to see more variety in Castles and heroes in actual games, and at least the four Castles I mentioned were always actively played. Now, it really feels like 9 out of 10 games, the red player picks Cove/Anabelle (occasionally Ilara instead of Anabelle). I wanted to ask if there's a consensus that Cove is currently the strongest Castle in this format? Or is it just an epidemic of new players who recently switched to HotA and are trying out a new Castle?
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Offline ДаУ
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#117
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ЗнатокИгры
mom

on M200, the Mage is stronger; the castle doesn't matter, what matters is who is playing it;

But yes, balance is needed on M200: external markets, obelisks, on 2cm2c, swamp/snow secondary skills are critical.
672466033
Миха#7845
Ландау лев https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNj_9EQxDoI&t=1174s

Тут делимся книгами /topic/at/1139927/
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Offline Erhog
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#118
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Marcus Aurelius
Okay, let's consider a specific example. Let's take Jebus Cross, as it's currently the most spectacular and popular map. I heard someone suggest creating a G-sized version of Jebus. So, let's imagine we have a G-sized Jebus. What would be the most popular strategy on it? I think it would be the same as on a regular Jebus: several heroes spread out in different directions for scouting and resource gathering, while other heroes work in chains, clearing out various guards and objectives. Let's introduce a concept like "effective movement points." Effective movement points are those spent by a hero while simultaneously scouting the territory and clearing out guards, meaning they don't perform unnecessary actions. Movement points spent running back and forth in chains or transporting troops are not effective. Movement points spent on scouting without clearing useful resources along the way are also not effective. So, how many effective movement points do we have with the usual strategy on Jebus? Not many. Now, let's consider a version with communication and summoning portals scattered everywhere. What would be the most popular strategy now? We spread out in all directions, and if we discover useful guarded resources in any direction, we immediately send troops there through the portal, and so on. In other words, expansion occurs simultaneously in all directions. How many effective movement points will we have in this case? More than in the first case. The more effective movement points, the faster we will obviously clear the map, reach the center, and encounter the opponent.

In my opinion, the drawback of this approach is that it eliminates the need to decide which direction is more advantageous to go, and even more so, when someone manages to clear out in different directions, which requires more significant strategic skills and the ability to conduct more complex battles. It seems to me that in Heroes, the decision of where to advance and the ability to conduct effective scouting and make that decision is one of the key elements that separates more skilled players from less skilled ones. If it becomes possible to break through everywhere without much difficulty, then the number of useful objects on the map will effectively be the deciding factor, rather than the ability to gather the maximum amount in a short time.
:smile41: :smile41: :smile41: :smile41::smile41: :smile41:
Любые сообщения, написанные с этого аккаунта являются художественным вымыслом и не соответствуют реальности. Относиться к ним стоит как к литературному произведению.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#119
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Erhog, hey uncle, where have you been all this time? :D He burst in and immediately explained everything.
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Offline ДаУ
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#121
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h3dm1 SoD Hives cons = HotA external dwellings; maybe add a bit of filling? or what is the balance between HotA and h3dm1.

What is the balance for HotA teams: equalize? build up dwellings? what are the principles of HotA team balance?
672466033
Миха#7845
Ландау лев https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNj_9EQxDoI&t=1174s

Тут делимся книгами /topic/at/1139927/
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Offline LuckyF
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#122
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DaU
h3dm1 SoD hives cons = HotA external dwellings; maybe add a bit of filling? or what is the balance between HotA and h3dm1.

What is the balance for HotA teams: equalize them? build up dwellings? what are the principles of HotA team balance?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d6lGFzBkfM
discord: LuckyF#3482
icq: 681350680
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