UNIT - Creature Balance + Visual Changes — Mods: Tribes of the East

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 12:50 PM UTC

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serovoy

In the original game (I think everyone remembers that Heroes V is a mix of Heroes III and Warcraft III), bronze dragons attacked with lightning. As for the logic – an AoE attack is almost always preferable to a single target attack, and you’ve even enhanced it. Therefore, the former emerald dragons continue to languish in obscurity. :(

This is why I decided to raise the issue of dragons, as it seemed to me that their AoE damage had become too "overpowered." I wouldn't say that the emerald dragons are particularly languishing; their damage and survivability have been increased, without sacrificing initiative.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Ment

6/14/2016 1:24 PM UTC

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Originally, emerald dragons were theoretically good for a chaos elf (you could bombard the enemy with meteor showers while the dragons, which usually fight in the front lines, don't suffer). Overall, they look worse, though. Crystal dragons are good because of their attack, which can hit in any direction and sometimes even with an increased radius. Both tiers had high initiative and speed; these parameters were the best in the game (except for neutral creatures), and therefore, the elven dragons were unmatched.
Here, the situation is slightly different... Overall, due to the increased stats of the emerald dragons and the reduced initiative of the crystal dragons, the former become a possible choice in some situations. Except... I've already forgotten, are you taking into account that the Storm Strike increases the damage to the main target by two times? Also, I don't know how these two AoE attacks interact with each other. Does Storm Strike only affect the main target? Or does it affect others as well? What will happen if a crystal dragon attacks unit 1, from behind, through an empty cell, and unit 2 is standing behind it (and is also affected by the crystal breath), and unit 3 is standing right next to unit 2? Will units 2 and 3 be affected by Storm Strike or not?

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In reply to Ment

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 1:41 PM UTC

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Ment

Are you taking into account that the Storm Strike ability doubles the damage dealt to the primary target?

Of course, I am. That's why the creature's initial damage was reduced by half, even in the first version.

Ment

Also, I don't know how these two AoE attacks interact with each other.

It's very simple: Storm Strike has a 100% chance to splash onto adjacent creatures, dealing half the damage of the attack. And Crystal Breath, as before, has a certain chance to perform an AoE attack, or it might not... To clarify the situation, imagine units lined up in a row. A dragon flies in and attacks any creature in the row. The attacked creature receives full damage, and Storm Strike deals half the initial damage to each creature in the row. Then, there are two possibilities: Crystal Breath triggers, and the damage is duplicated, i.e., it happens again, or it doesn't trigger, in which case everything ends with the Storm Strike from the first attack.

Because of the randomness of Crystal Breath, I decided to increase the AoE so that it triggers with a 100% chance, but the interaction of the two abilities is simply devastating.
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Therefore, I want to hear the opinion of those who have already tried the mod: is it necessary to fix them, or should they be left as they are.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Ment

6/14/2016 3:27 PM UTC

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Okay. What will happen in my situation? Did you test it?

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In reply to Ment

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 5:02 PM UTC

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Ment

Okay. What will happen in my situation? Did you test it?

Ment

What will happen if a Crystal Archer attacks unit 1 from behind, through an empty cell, and unit 2 is standing behind it (also affected by the Crystal Archer's breath), and unit 3 is standing right next to unit 2? Will units 2 and 3 be hit by the storm or not?

Yes, in addition to the Crystal Archer's breath, the unit standing through the cell will also receive a storm attack, which will then be passed on to nearby creatures.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Ment

6/14/2016 5:42 PM UTC

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Yes, standing next to each other, in addition to the Crystal Breath, the unit also receives a Storm Strike, which then spreads to nearby creatures.

Heh, quite powerful... But I don't know, you have to see it in a real situation. I can only say that the previous speaker exaggerated the importance of AoE, in my opinion, especially since it remains for the Emerald Dragons as well, right? But maybe, it really needs to be nerfed. Or maybe not. Who knows how a human player will deal with it? It will be relatively easy to defeat against the AI, but that's what the AI is for. AoE always works worse against a human.

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Rameliya

6/14/2016 6:00 PM UTC

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Don't you think that your mod significantly increases the power of the Stronghold?

In reply to Ment

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 6:18 PM UTC

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Ment

Heh, that's quite powerful... But I'm not sure how it would play out in a real situation. I can only say that the previous speaker exaggerated the importance of AoE, especially since it still exists for the Emerald faction (right?). But maybe the Crystal faction does need a slight nerf. Or maybe not. Who knows how a human player will deal with it? It will be relatively easy to defeat them in single-player, but that's what single-player is for. AoE always works worse against a human player.

The Bronze (Emerald) faction still has the Acid Breath ability, which is also an AoE spell. The Crystal Dragons have too chaotic a native AoE, and I don't like unpredictability and relying on chance. You can at least enhance luck with artifacts, specialization, etc., but you can't fix the AoE mechanic with in-game tools.

Against the AI, this ability is unrealistically overpowered, in my opinion. In PvP, of course, the situation will be different, although the chaotic nature of the breath can still play a dirty trick on the opponent. Moreover, even in a game against neutral creatures, it will allow you to come out with fewer losses than you might have, which means that in the end, the army will not be as balanced as it should be, because the opponent is leveling up under the same conditions, but comes out with greater losses.

Added 3 minutes later

Rameliya

Don't you think that your mod significantly increases the power of the Horde?

Could you be a little more specific about what you mean?

Although I've already received feedback regarding the Cyclops, and I must say, I agree with it. When changing the characteristics, I completely forgot about the Blood Wrath bonuses, so the unit received an undeserved advantage.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Ment

6/14/2016 6:32 PM UTC

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besides, even in a game against neutral factions, it will allow you to win with fewer losses.

It's debatable; the armies are sparse, and there are few units. I think that against neutral factions, Emerald Dragons, with their higher initiative, will be at least as good, and probably better. However, it should also be noted that by the time upgraded dragons appear, most neutral factions should no longer be a problem.

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In reply to Ment

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 6:48 PM UTC

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Ment

It's debatable; the Emerald Dragons have sparse armies and few units. I think they'll be at least as good as, and probably better than, the Crystal Dragons against neutral creatures, thanks to their higher initiative. However, it should also be noted that by the time upgraded dragons appear, most neutral creatures should no longer be a problem.

You might be right about the neutral creatures, but in PvP, the Crystal Dragons still worry me. Their double area-of-effect attack is a significant argument against their balance.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Rameliya

6/14/2016 6:54 PM UTC

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Tell me, is your mod compatible with these mods? Epic War Age (EWA) - Adapted collection of mods /topic/9495/ AnotherGame - modification for ToE 3.1 /topic/8830/

In reply to Rameliya

Frozensoull

6/14/2016 7:06 PM UTC

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Rameliya

Tell me, is your mod compatible with these mods?

Epic War Age (EWA) - Adapted collection of mods
/topic/9495/

AnotherGame - modification for ToE 3.1
/topic/8830/

Compatibility exists with Epic War Age (EWA).
I can't say anything about AnotherGame because I haven't checked it yet.

The "UNIT" modification was developed based on the original version of "Tribes of the East" v3.1 and is mainly aimed at it. Compatibility is most likely with those mods that do not affect the same changes as this one. However, in case of incompatibility with other projects, if their owners wish, we can arrange compatibility.

Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Frozensoull

6/15/2016 7:16 AM UTC

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Taking into account all wishes and suggestions, two test versions of crossbowmen were developed. I suggest you familiarize yourself with their characteristics and test their effectiveness yourself.
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Option one.

It only affects crossbowmen. Due to the uselessness of the unit at long range and the incredibly high damage at close range, the unit was too situational, so it was decided to completely remove the "Accurate Shot" ability; instead, the units received stable increased damage, comparable to the alternative upgrade version, plus the defensive ability "Retaliatory Shot".

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Option two.

Crossbowmen receive all the abilities and characteristics of Archers, in addition, the minimum damage will be increased by one unit, since previously there was too much damage variance.
Archers, in turn, lose the ability to shoot without penalty, but in return, they receive stable increased damage, comparable to the alternative upgrade version, plus the "Piercing Shot" ability, which was previously a "Magic Attack" (mages do not lose their ability). Now, archers will deal stable damage throughout the entire trajectory of the shot, including friendly units.

Why were archers given the "Piercing Shot" ability? Because this ability involves friendly units also taking damage, like mages. And such a radical concept is only suitable for the doctrines of the "red church," namely archers. Crossbowmen, in turn, will deal more accurate, targeted shots (meaning not the ability) and will certainly never allow harm to be inflicted on their comrades in arms...
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You can personally test both options and choose the best one.
(If there is no feedback, a choice will be made at my discretion)

During the test, you need to move the ()UNIT_BALANCE.h5u file from the X:\Game Folder\UserMODs\ folder to any other location.
After the tests, the ()UNIT_BALANCE.h5u file must be returned to its original location in the "UserMODs" folder

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Модификации для Heroes V 3.1:

[Модификация]Phoenix Vision - Комплексное модифицирование визуального аспекта игры.
[Модификация]UNIT-Баланс существ + визуальные изменения.
[Модификация]NewTransformUndead-Таблица поднятия нежити.
[Модификация]VisualFix-Устрание визуальных багов.

Карты для Heroes V 3.1:

[Карта][1x1]The Last Stand - Дуэльная карта финальных битв

Группа VK:
https://vk.com/club176978884

Bravo1853

6/15/2016 10:15 AM UTC

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I looked at both options. And I realized that in both cases, a bow made from a unicorn horn would be an excellent gift for archers. Retaliation is unnecessary, because after the archers take damage, I might not have time to heal them, because they will kill the enemy stack (of ranged units) with a retaliatory attack. The second option somehow appealed to me more. In the first option, with the bow, the crossbowmen become killing machines; they cannot be outranged. It would be worth giving the crossbowmen 1 unit of defense in the second option, at the expense of the huge damage range. Also, there will be certain difficulties in creating a formation for the archers, and this, in turn, will greatly complicate the clearing of mobs, with which it is impossible to proceed without a formation. Therefore, even despite the high damage, I will always take crossbowmen against neutral creatures, and most likely also in the final stages. I'm afraid that archers will not be very useful. Archers need to be protected, but in the end, they will stand unprotected, as they will be attacking their own stacks if they are protected. One possible solution is to make it so that damage to friendly units does not spread to creatures standing on adjacent cells.

Ment

6/15/2016 12:02 PM UTC

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You could give them the pattern of battle mages instead of regular/archmages. Battle mages can be placed in a box, where they will only hit their own units from certain angles.

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