But what if you make a mistake and, without realizing it (i.e., unintentionally), become a cheater?
Posts from TOURNAMENT TROUBLES!
However, look at how many people used this automation tool in the tournament, and the computer didn't change anyone's tactics; it just ran after the sniper. So, keep your speculations to yourself. Now it's your turn to prove that the computer CAN change its tactics even once in this battle! If you prove it, then we can continue the discussion, but if not, there's nothing to discuss. Your claim is unsubstantiated and based on an assumption, while my claim is based on PRACTICE, so it is not unsubstantiated.
Iron, you should have studied mathematics and elementary logic back in the day... you waste so much of your own and others' time... :)
For example, I have never encountered ball lightning in my life, and I don't know anyone who has. Therefore, it doesn't exist. Show it to me, and then I'll believe it... Or something like that.
If an event has not occurred even once, it does not mean that it cannot happen.
so keep your speculations to yourself.
There is no way to prove that the battle is stuck in a loop. We don't know how the AI works. Just imagine that it has a principle built in, such as "after N turns in a cycle, switch tactics," or something else... For example, instead of attacking the nearest unit, it attacks a ballista...
In other words, if you haven't encountered this behavior through experimentation, it doesn't prove that it can't happen in principle... Therefore, it won't work... Please, simulate the entire battle from start to finish, but don't jump from the start to the end just because "I'm sure..."
The snipers had a limited number of shots, so they couldn't eliminate most of the elementals.
However, the harpies, with their retaliatory attacks, dealt much more damage than the ballista.
The battle lasted 3 hours manually, and at some points, it started to seem like, if my hand faltered, it would all be over...
In this battle, as in the case with the ballista, the snipers were a distraction, and the harpies acted as the ballista.
BUT! after about 50 Earth Elementals remained, they suddenly stopped chasing the snipers and rushed towards the harpies. And that's where,
if we had an automated system, we would have failed.
So, there is some truth to what AmberSoler said.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
BUT! after about 50 earth elementals were left, for some reason they stopped chasing the snipers and rushed the harpies. And that's where,
if we had an automator, we would have messed up.
So AmberSoler's words make sense.
I agree with Vbn and AmberSoler. I can actually confirm this case using a documented example from the last tournament; in the final battle to capture the artifact (it was my first time fighting without using a power field), I won, though not without problems; then I had to write the tactics for the final battle for the VDV and, oh horror, I realized that I couldn't win because the computer changed its tactics and from a certain point (about 95-100 ED left) it ignores the archangels and starts killing the snipers, and simply put, I ran out of mana.
Exactly, even if a battle is won 100% of the time, there's still a probability of different loss totals. That is, in the end, we might end up with a couple more dragons. How to handle this? I don't know how to use ArtMoney, but I have no doubt that this is "parasitic"
Added after 30 minutes
Iron, you really should have studied mathematics and elementary logic back in the day... you're wasting so much of your own and others' time... :)
For example, I have never encountered ball lightning in my life and don't know a single person who has. Therefore, it doesn't exist. Now show it to me, then I'll believe... Well, or something along those lines.
If an event has never happened once, then based on that alone, you cannot claim that it cannot happen.
Indeed, why am I even stating my thoughts here. Pure word-spinning... If it were up to me, I would officially allow IronAxe to use all known tricks and programs while playing and would never question that right. Play however you want; why drag others into this swamp? Stop lobbying ArtMoney here.
Smart people already told you clearly once—if you want to use it, use it quietly and be happy. Just don't tell anyone about it...
Added after 36 minutes
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The battle lasted 3 hours manually, and at some moments it started to seem that my hand would shake—and that' same it...
In this battle, as in the case with the ballista, snipers were a distraction, and harpies acted as the ballista.
BUT! after about 50 earth units remained, for some reason they stopped chasing snipers and rushed the harpies.
How? Explain. Did you have to spend additional mana on magic? Can you write the details of the winning tactic?
And this is where, having an automator, we would have messed up.
So there is sense in AmberSoler's words.
A battle automator should primarily be in the head :) ; in practice, one must know that a battle is won NO MATTER WHAT, otherwise is there any point in conducting such a battle manually next time. I agree that not all battles fall under this; we're talking about battles like fairy vs skeletons.
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Iron, why do you always use other portals as examples??? You write every other post "if you wanted to understand me" or "you still didn't get my point." Yes, we are just too stupid to understand your thoughts, Iron Axe!!!
If ArtMoney only automates cyclic processes, then I simply have nothing to hit with! ;)
Only ArtMoney isn't just something I have :) I personally know what can be done with it and what cannot. I tried to explain; some understood me, some didn't. Those who didn't—don't even try to steer ArtMoney :) And if an organizer puts a stupid long battle on the map—bash your keyboard for several hours if you want to try to make the top ten, BUT why, if you are 100% sure that the battle is winnable. And as for there being no such battles and not being able to be 100% sure—AmberSoler is lying to you. Such battles exist in both 4 and 3.
Added after 16 minutes
I agree with Vbn and AmberSoler. I can confirm this case documentarily using the example of the last
tournament, in the final battle for capture art (I conducted the battle for the first time without using a force field), I won not without problems, but I won;
then I had to write the tactic of the final battle for VDV and, oh horror, I realized that I couldn't win, because the computer changed tactics and from a certain point (about 95-100 GD remained) it ignores archs and starts killing snipers, and I simply stopped having enough mana.
PS.
Here is what I'll tell you: This battle cannot be subject to either automation or ArtMonization BECAUSE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BATTLE WE MUST SPEND MANA, and depending on the computer's change of tactics, it depends which magic we spend, and that determines how much mana we spend by the end of the fight because different magics cost a different number of mana points. So why are you pushing your example, and "confirming documentarily" at that. You better think about a battle with one fairy against 1000 skeletons and look for associations with it or analogues of such a battle where from the very beginning or a certain point the battle is won WITHOUT SPENDING CONSUMABLES OR YOUR OWN TROOPS.
Are you suggesting that the defense should be so strong that even an experienced player would have trouble getting out of the starting area? The maps that VDV posts for tournaments, especially those with surprises, are dynamic. In a long, tedious battle with a large but slow defense, we can quickly level up our hero using automatons. But according to your idea, we would have to build up and accumulate troops just to level up the hero so that he can get out of the starting area and acquire the appropriate magic. As a result, instead of one problem (tedious, long battles - but there's a solution with automatons), we'll get another (building up + accumulating troops for leveling up and acquiring skills and magic - but there's no way to speed that up).
The time issue can be resolved quickly: simply place surprises without guards... just walk up and level up... and then you'll kill two birds with one stone: first, you won't need to use any external programs (including ArtMoney), and second, you won't have to waste time leveling up your hero.
And thirdly, few would have known that the ballista has infinite ammunition and a battle tactic involving a single ballista :) if the organizers hadn't created such battles. I mean, maybe no one would have even figured it out if all the upgrade stations and boxes were placed on maps without any guards.
Why go to extremes... to showcase a trick or a bug with the ballista (I honestly don't know what to call it correctly), you could simply place 50, or even 100 golems... those who know the trick/bug with the ballista would have grabbed the prize on the first day, and those who don't know wouldn't (and the fact that the battle takes a lot of time would automatically be eliminated). And there would be no need to waste time on such a battle, and there would be no need for any kind of automation.
Also, what's the point of a battle with 1 fairy against 1000 skeletons? You could simply place 50-100 skeletons, the main thing is to grasp the meaning of these battles, but not to sit in front of the computer, engaging in nonsense for several hours, struggling with the battle.
Also with the fight of 1 fairy against 1000 skeletons, why??? You could just put 50-100 skeletons instead, the main thing is to capture the meaning of these fights, but not go grey in front of the computer engaging in own absurdity for several hours, puffing over a battle.
...as long as maps offer long, guaranteed winnable battles, many players will use available methods to speed up the process.
This is not news. What is the point of this conversation? Do you want some local official to write an official permission for everyone to use Artu as they see fit?
I don't think this will happen... I can't understand what you are trying to achieve...
To convey to the players the information that at least one person among us will use officially prohibited methods of the game? You conveyed this half a year ago, and everyone has already come to terms with this fact. What's next? State your ultimate goal, otherwise we're just going in circles again...
Added 5 minutes ago
:smile19: Deleted :smile19:
Kyle: please refrain from personal attacks!
1. So that players like IronAxe don't think that someone might use a third-party program like ArtMany, and also are not sure that the organizer can track this, long, obviously winnable battles (1 fairy against 1000 zombies) will be completely excluded from tournaments, or will be structured in such a way that no automation tool can make the player's life easier for even a minute (see surprise #1 in the Best of the Best tournament)!
2. The Ballista is not a bug.
3. A NEW TOURNAMENT HOST FOR HEROES 3 HAS BEEN APPOINTED: THE RESPECTED KYLE!
Now about some changes to the rules for Heroes 3 (taking into account the wishes of respected forum members).
Correction of the rules based on the example of the last 3 stages.
2. The tournament will be held on the Russian version of The Shadow of Death with patch 3.2. The save is generated on the Heroes 3 version of The Shadow of Death with patch 3.2. It is also allowed to play on the following versions of Heroes 3: The Restoration of Erathia, Armageddon's Blade, Platinum Edition. Players on these versions should remember the existing bugs:
a) Double casting of spells in one game turn.
b) Selling artifacts at inflated prices.
c) Buying a dead hero (your own or the computer's).
d) Digging up the Grail in 1 day.
6. The submitted save must have no more than 2 heroes. The rest must simply be dismissed (heroes sitting in castles must also be dismissed. Exceptions are only heroes who are in the garrison of a castle that is attacked by the opponent in the final battle, when passing the turn).
9. It is forbidden to: use cheat programs, codes, bugs, and additional programs that can change the structure of the game.
10. Send the save to Kyle's email.
11. In case of suspicion of a player cheating, or other malicious intent when completing the map, it is necessary to save the beginning and end of each game day.
In this case (detection of cheating), the player must send additional saves, as well as provide a description of the walkthrough, to determine whether the game was unfair or fair, to the tournament organizer, within 15 days after the end of the tournament.
The results of a player who played unfairly, as well as did not send his description (saves) in time at the request of the tournament organizer, will be annulled, and his further participation in tournaments will be impossible. This will also affect his reputation, not in a good way.
12. Discussion of the tournament during its course is PROHIBITED!!!
If the organizer, or his assistant, is documentarily convinced of the discussion of the tournament in any place on the Internet, he has the right to permanently exclude such players from participating in tournaments on www.heroesworld.ru. The results of such players will not be counted and will be annulled.
13. The tournament starts *** and will last until *** (inclusive, until 24:00 Moscow time!). Preliminary results will be announced on ***.
The final results will be announced no later than ***.
Sincerely, VDV_forever
Геройский Интернационал
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Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
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