Connection ErrorBad RequestSession ExpiredSign in requiredForbiddenNot FoundToo Many RequestsServer ErrorBad GatewayService UnavailableGateway TimeoutHTTP Version Not Supported
Session Expired
Your session has expired. Please log in to continue.
Sign in required
You need an account to do that. Sign in or create one — it only takes a minute.
Request Failed
We encountered an issue while processing your request.
Please check your internet connection and try again.
Here, take a look. If there are no creatures with a movement speed slower than 7 on the map, and there are no elementals among the castles, then the issue is partially resolved, right? Refugee camps can also be removed... I remember about Cerberuses, Vampires, Hydras, and Devils, but still, obtaining them requires a bit more effort than obtaining 1 upgraded Fairy...
Now look. If there are no footmen on the map slower than speed 7, and there are no elementals among the Castles - the question is partially resolved, right? Refugee camps can also be removed... I remember about Cerberi, vampires, hydras, and devils, but still, getting them requires a few more efforts than getting 1 upgraded fairy...
The game itself is already being cut down severely. Which is what you and Kyle are saying. It's better to officially allow artillery in such battles and verify by description. I like the checks on this resource; here, the player is checked not only by the organizer, but leaders hold reports before the entire honest company that took part in the Tournaments. So it will be quite difficult to use artillery dishonestly for a known impassable battle - the violator will be caught.
Kyle
Auto-translated
to Iron-Axe: Thank you for your post... after reading it and then my own, I realized that I didn't summarize it properly...
to VDV_forever: Summary: First: Infinite ammunition for the ballista is a BUG that should be banned, along with other bugs... Second: In tournaments (not practice ones), one should try to avoid battles like: 1 fairy vs. 1000 dendroids, or at least not introduce them intentionally.
to Iron-Axe: regarding that ArtMoney thing: imagine, I don't know how to use it... :o and I don't have it... :o and I don't want to... so I won't be tempted... ;) Regarding allowing its use: IMHO: I don't support this idea... because it could lead to the temptation to use it in other places... no, as they say, one shouldn't go too far... the hero editor and automator from vbn are one thing, and ArtMoney is another... And I already know what you're going to say in response... But you won't convince me... and don't even try... :D I won't argue with you about this... :D
Added after 8 minutes P.S. I would like to see a response from VDV_forever... :)
Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
Qwerty
Auto-translated
Alright, let's put the question another way. 1. Our Competitive events are for Heroes 3, right? Then why is a third-party program needed for a normal tournament Walkthrough? And one more thing: why include battles that are GUARANTEED wins (like a fairy against zombies in 1 stack)? Is it so that less experienced participants have an even lower result? 2. Let's consider two options. A school student in a non-graduating class with plenty of free time. And a working person, for example, with a family. Obviously, in the second case, to be honest, there isn't much free time. And here we have those infamous multi-hour battles with a PREDETERMINED result. Technical battles. In which the winner is known immediately; you just need to spend a lot of time flying around as a fairy or a devil... Why is this necessary? To weed out busy participants? So that Kyle, Zingel, or Geksorin don't have time to complete the tournament?
Okay, let's rephrase the question. 1. The Competitive event is for Heroes 3, right? So why do we need a third-party program to run the tournament properly? And also: why include battles that are obviously won (like a Fairy against Zombies in a single stack)? Is it to make less experienced participants feel even worse?
I completely agree! Qwerty;86564
2. Let's consider two scenarios. A high school student with plenty of free time, and a working person, let's say with a family. It's clear that in the second case, there isn't much free time. And that's where those infamous, hours-long battles with a PREDICTABLE outcome come in. Technical battles. Where the winner is immediately known; you just have to spend a lot of time flying around with a Fairy or a Devil... Why is this necessary? To weed out busy participants? So that Kyle, Zingel, or Geksorin don't have time to complete the tournament?
Now IronAxe will tell you that he wants to include the option to use ArtMoney in the rules precisely for these cases... :D
Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
I completely agree! Now, IronAxe will tell you that he wants to include the possibility of using ArtMoney in the rules precisely for such cases... :D
And what's so funny about that? :) If the organizers include such battles, and they can't accurately determine whether a player used ArtMoney or not, then I'll find some way to play the Tournament. I personally would never forfeit a battle if it's truly unwinnable. Regarding the temptations, it's all made up. The other players aren't fools; they'll identify an unfair player based on the description or in the game discussions.
Added after 1 hour 2 minutes Qwerty;86564
Okay, let's rephrase the question. 1. We're having Competitive events in Heroes 3, right? So why do you need a third-party program to play the Tournament properly? And also: why include battles that are obviously won (like a Fairy against Zombies in a single stack)? Is it to make the results even worse for less experienced participants?
Are you suggesting that we include such strong guards that even an experienced player won't be able to leave the starting area? The maps that VDV posts for Tournaments, especially those with surprises, are DYNAMIC. In a long, tedious battle with a large but slow guard, we quickly level up the hero using automation tools. But according to you, we'll have to build up and accumulate troops just to level up the hero so that he can leave the starting area and acquire the appropriate magic. As a result, instead of one problem (tedious, long battles - but there's a solution with automation tools), we'll get another (building up + accumulating troops for leveling up and acquiring skills and magic - but there's no way to speed that up).
Kamikaze
Auto-translated
Listen, you're all saying the same thing, back and forth. It's obvious: some people like it, others don't. You can't please everyone anyway!!! There will always be dissatisfied people. Tournaments are also different. And next time, the map might be more suitable for Kyle, Zingel, and Hexorin. It just so happens that this map has a rather "long" battle. Just for variety, you know. ;)
Listen, you're all saying the same thing, back and forth. It's obvious: some people like it, others don't. You can't please everyone anyway!!! There will always be dissatisfied people. Tournaments are also different. Next time, the map might be more suitable for Kyle, Zingel, and Hexorin. It just so happens that this map has a "long" battle. For variety, so to speak. ;)
We're all discussing this back and forth, probably to develop tournament rules that would more fully regulate the relationships between all the different approaches. If anyone hasn't understood that yet.
Qwerty
Auto-translated
...and also to ensure that different opinions are taken into account when preparing the map...
Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер
Fireball
Auto-translated
Let's consider two scenarios. A high school student who isn't in the graduating class, with plenty of free time. And a working person, let's say with a family. It's clear that in the second case, there isn't much free time, to be honest. And here are those infamous, hours-long battles with a PREDICTABLE outcome. Technical battles. In which the winner is immediately known; you just need to spend a lot of time flying around with a fairy or a devil... What's the point of this? To weed out busy participants? So that Kyle, Zingel, or Geksorin don't have time to complete the tournament?
There is no logic in your words. You spoke out against automatons, which actually save a lot of real time, but then you lament the lack of time. You can't remove slow units from the map because it will result in a completely different game. Therefore, automatons should be allowed; moreover, they are even more useful for "busy" participants. Having a computer usually means the ability to leave it on overnight. Kyle's case is an unfortunate exception.
P.S. Dear Qwerty, just for fun, look at the average age of the top 3 winners in the first three stages. These are far from being schoolchildren.
and also to ensure that different opinions are taken into account when preparing the map
Here's an opinion: the map for stage 3 was VERY good, dynamic, and interesting, with two practically equivalent (killing the AI in 7 days is easier than taking the sphere, but the parameters will be lower) victory conditions. With a well-thought-out strategy and a well-timed surprise, everything else can be completed in an evening without any stress.
Qwerty
Auto-translated
Can it be completed in one evening? And how much of that evening does a battle with elementals take?
Automators (the real ones) aren't a bug; I personally have nothing against them. But there are pseudo-automators (like ArtMoney, or maybe others), and those are already CHEATS. Since there's no way to determine who used what, the best solution is to avoid the need for both.
P.S. I'm against showcasing battles (1 fairy against 1000 of something).
Added 2 minutes later Qwerty;86724
Can it be completed in an evening? And how much of that evening does the battle with the elementals take?
I defeated the elementals (using the ballista) 3 times: Pyra - a little over 2 hours. Alamar - I left it running overnight (6-7 hours) Orrin - 3.5-4 hours (I don't remember exactly)
And what's so funny about it? If the organizers include such battles, and they can't accurately determine whether the player used ArtMoney or not, then I at least find some way to play the tournament. I personally would never forfeit a battle if it's actually winnable. Regarding the temptations, it's all made up.
Judging by what you're writing now and what you advised me, it seems like you did exactly that, i.e., used ArtMoney... :smile08: IronAxe;86571
The maps that VDV uploads for tournaments, especially those with surprises, are DYNAMIC.
Well, (regarding Heroes 3) I've only seen two maps so far... one (VK3) is dynamic... conditionally... the other (VV) is not very good... But if it weren't for that battle on the VK3 map, I would have given it a 9.9 out of 10!IronAxe;86571
In a long, tedious battle with a large but slow guard, we quickly level up the hero using automatons. But according to you, we then have to build up and accumulate troops so that, first, we can level up the hero so that he can leave the starting area and acquire the appropriate magic.
Why are long battles necessary? If the organizer wants to give experience at the beginning, then there are two ways to do it: 1) Give the hero experience for free... for example, a Pandora's Box without guards... 2) Give the hero experience as a reward for a battle, but not a very long one, so that the battle can be won in a reasonable number of turns (no more than 40-60) and using a non-standard approach to the battle, so as to weed out beginners... (by the way, after the tournament, you can have a debriefing and show beginners some secrets):rolleyes: But don't create battles that last for thousands of rounds... :mad: Fireball
With a well-thought-out strategy and a surprise, everything else can be completed in an evening without stress.
I don't argue, but even with an automaton, getting a surprise... takes 5-6 hours... I'm not talking about ArtMoney, because I am categorically against it! :smile38:
to Alex_R and Qwerty: Thank you for your support! :smile01:
Sincerely.
Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
IronAxe
Auto-translated
:smile19: Deleted :smile19: Kyle: Please refrain from personal attacks!
Added 9 minutes ago Kyle;86740
Judging by what you wrote now, and what you advised me to do, it seems that you did exactly that, i.e., used ArtMoney... :smile08:
But who cares about feelings? Facts are needed, and I've been telling you for a while that this cannot be proven or disproven. How I acted, and how others acted, is a mystery to everyone :) Therefore, automation tools are needed and will be used, regardless of the desires and feelings of players and organizers, even if not by me. For example, I myself am not sure that others are not using ArtMoney. But if the battles are passable, and I can understand this from the description, then so be it. You should also take a look at the save in the 4th game :) There, too, the guards are quite strong, but you can save during the battle. Some will grind through 20-hour battles manually, while others will complete them using automation or ArtMoney. It will be impossible to distinguish the result of the battle based on the method used. So, what do you have to say about that? Why should some be "losers" and others not? Either you need to sacrifice speed by refusing to participate in certain battles. Just be honest and say that you don't have ArtMoney and don't know how to use it, so you are trying to force everyone to conform. But this will not work anyway. People will use it to save time, and you can't do anything about it. But if you explain to EVERYONE how to do it correctly, without violating the rules of the game itself, then only then will everyone be on an EQUAL footing in tournaments!!!
