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Posts from Chess timer: step 2. Daily increment. 4 polls in one topic!

Tournament History
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I prefer turn-based gameplay (with these templates and given battle time):
69 voters
Multiple choice Public votes Closed 2014-08-19
This poll is closed.
6 + 1m15s (battle) on XL+U (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
15.9% 11 votes
8 + 1m15s (battle) on XL+U (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
58% 40 votes
10 + 1m15s (battle) on XL+U (8mm6a, 8xm12a, 6lm10a, Spider, Nostalgia)
21.7% 15 votes
6 + 1 minute 30 seconds (battle time) on the Jebus Cross XL-U map
15.9% 11 votes
8 + 1 minute 30 seconds (battle time) on the Jebus Cross XL-U map
40.6% 28 votes
10 + 1 minute 30 seconds (battle time) on the Jebus Cross XL-U map
34.8% 24 votes
6 + 1m15s (battle) on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy
18.8% 13 votes
8 + 1m15s (battle) on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy
55.1% 38 votes
10 + 1m15s (battle) on Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Anarchy
18.8% 13 votes
4 + 1 melee attack on 2 Small Mortar for 4 days (3), balance, Panic
17.4% 12 votes
6 + 1 melee attack on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic
42% 29 votes
8 + 1 melee attack on 2SM4d(3), balance, Panic
37.7% 26 votes
Offline Kashchei
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Posts: 714
#17
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the only advantage of a chess timer is to shorten the duration of battles; in this regard, the equality of opponents is highly debatable. I believe that the time allotted for a battle should be directly proportional to the ratio of army strengths, but would anyone calculate these proportions and implement them in the game?

overall, I am in favor of dynamically reducing the total time per turn in order to increase the duration of battles.
one can think about a strategy even during the opponent's turn.
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Offline Dark30
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#18
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I agree, there's plenty of time overall, but the battles, especially for a beginner, are just chaotic. Taking a Dwarf on turn 1 simply burns through the timer, and if the Dwarf is pre-maxed or maxed, it's even worse.
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Offline высокий
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#19
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Dark30
I agree, there is more than enough time for the turn, but for the battle, especially for a beginner, it's just chaos. Taking a Dwarf on turn 1 simply burns through the timer, and if the Dwarf is near max or max level, it's even worse.

Exactly. In some battles, it's not about thinking, but about the sheer number of turns. When you're chasing a bunch of Dwarves and lining them up for a direct shot, it takes a lot of time. And not going for a Dwarf that you can take on the first turn because of the timer is also stupid. That's why I would like there to be an option to do something else after the battle. That is, after a certain amount of time (3-6 minutes), the timer stops consuming your time. Such battles don't happen often, and if the timer pauses on one or two battles, it will save the player about 10 minutes, so there's no point in deliberately prolonging the battles, but it will reduce the number of mistakes players make, and they will also get more enjoyment from winning a difficult battle.

P.S. Although I don't even know if it's possible to do that. But it would be interesting.
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Offline Dima Surmay
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#20
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high
Exactly. In some battles, it's not about thinking, but about the sheer number of turns. When you're maneuvering a bunch of dwarves and lining them up for a direct shot, it takes a lot of time. And it's also silly not to engage an enemy dwarf formation that you could take on in the first turn just because of the timer. That's why it would be nice if there was an option to do something else after the battle. That is, after a certain amount of time (3-6 minutes), the timer would stop consuming your time. Such battles don't happen often, and if the timer pauses in one or two battles, it will only cost the player about 10 minutes, so there's no point in deliberately prolonging the battles, but it will reduce the number of mistakes players make, and they will also get more enjoyment from winning a difficult battle.

P.S. Although I don't even know if it's possible to do that. But it would be interesting.
I completely agree; I've already written a similar thought, but it hasn't gained much traction yet.
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Offline Sanin
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Posts: 2,074
#21
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Simon5760
In my opinion, this is the main feature of the chess timer. Here, you choose whether you want a long game or a timer. And in general, if a person thinks for a long time, that's their problem; everyone is on equal footing, in my opinion.

With such a timer, a beginner is not on equal footing with experienced players.
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Offline Redwhait
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#22
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Sanin
With such a timer, a newcomer is not on equal footing with experienced players.
What prevents newcomers from practicing with Dwarves in single-player mode during the first week?
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Offline злой_романтик
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#23
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Redwhait HP
What prevents newcomers from practicing with Dwarves in single-player mode during the first week?
Laziness, my dear ;)
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Offline Dark30
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Posts: 734
#24
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So, in your opinion, what should a beginner look like? Someone who knows all the mechanics, builds perfect formations, knows all the monsters by heart (their stats, turn order, individual characteristics), knows the best placement, and who knows what else I haven't listed... definitely a "daddy's approach"). And it's absolutely not about laziness. P.S. In reality, I don't care at all about the timer; the most important thing is the game!
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Offline высокий
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Posts: 127
#25
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Dark30
I agree, there is more than enough time for the turn, but for the battle, especially for a beginner, it's just chaos. Taking a Dwarf on turn 1 simply burns through the timer, and if the Dwarf is near max or max level, it's even worse.

Exactly. In some battles, it's not about thinking, but about the sheer number of turns. When you're chasing a bunch of Dwarves and lining them up for a direct shot, it takes a lot of time. And not going for a Dwarf that you can take on the first turn because of the timer is also stupid. That's why I would like there to be an option to do something else after the battle. That is, after a certain amount of time (3-6 minutes), the timer stops consuming your time. Such battles don't happen often, and if the timer pauses on one or two battles, it will save the player about 10 minutes, so there's no point in deliberately prolonging the battles, but it will reduce the number of mistakes players make, and they will also get more enjoyment from winning a difficult battle.

P.S. Although I don't even know if it's possible to do that. But it would be interesting.
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Offline Toganash
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Posts: 1,287
#26
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I propose we take a balanced approach to the two points raised here:
1) The chess clock puts a beginner at a disadvantage because they take more time to think during battle.
2) It’s foolish not to engage in a prolonged fight due to a lack of time on the chess clock.
Regarding point 1. Well, the very concept of a beginner implies that they are still untrained in some areas, and the chess clock has nothing to do with it. It’s like coming to a chess blitz tournament and saying: I know all the game mechanics, I’m just a bit nervous because of the tournament format, since I have no experience participating in such events yet. So let’s not play blitz.
Regarding point 2. It’s foolish to dive into every drawn-out battle every time — that’s linear thinking. Sometimes, even without a chess clock, for instance, I might skip long, tedious fights if the reward doesn’t give any special bonuses and they can be postponed: a) because I’m too lazy, b) because the same thing can be done later, easier, more confidently, and without losses. The chess clock, in this case, actually forces you to think better about priorities and more interesting chains, and it evens out the odds when resources are unevenly distributed. For example, about a month ago, on Diamond in Refuge on day 112, I caught a Devil and on the Inferno adjacent zone with Necro Claw on day 113, I used it to clip the wings of 40 Diamond Golems. One Devil on a classic timer through morale can do even more than that. In the end, I got insane growth and tempo, and who cares that the fight lasted 30 minutes (I was fishing for morale — there was no other way). But I got that tempo not because I’m a megazord, but because I simply got lucky, including with the class timer. And with a chess clock, I would have thought twice about whether to take it, and if I did take it thanks to the generator, then my time trouble would have served as compensation for the opponent.
So all the arguments, folks, are not in favor of the SoD timer. And I’m telling you this — and those who watch my streams know how I always blow through the timer and should, in theory, be against its introduction.
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,099
#27
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With the current timers, where the starting bonus is only 2-3 times greater than the increase, you can spend it every turn. Just engage in a tough battle as your last action, and that's it. This is usually how it's done in blitz games.

However, with VT-style controls like 4000+500, you should consider the optimal use of the timer because half an hour is half of your reserve.

And yes, in the mid-to-late game, the timer is often more useful than money and troops. Therefore, it's often more beneficial not to break a tough gnome stronghold on turn 117, but to break it on turn 121 quickly and easily, even if you lose half a day of tempo. This loss will be forgotten in a week, but the extra 15 minutes of timer will remain.
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Offline Rabe
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Posts: 165
#29
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Equal conditions mean that both players start with the same initial set of resources. If we consider the time spent in a game, the Shades of Darkness timer doesn't regulate fairness. It doesn't matter if I'm a newbie or a veteran – once we start playing, we're equal!
More than once, a match has ended with me having +1 hour on the clock and my opponent having just a few minutes. But if it were a Shades of Darkness timer, I can assure you that the actual time spent in the game would be 5 to 1.

Here's a simple example: A player logs into a maximum-level town, opens YouTube, and step-by-step, proves that they are the better player. So what if it took 30-40 minutes!? They are the better player.

Moderated: INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE in the message

iniipet!

Tournament = chess timer!
"Одержать сто побед в ста битвах — это не вершина воинского искусства. Повергнуть врага без сражения — вот вершина.
"Сущность войны — обман. Искусный должен изображать неумелость. При готовности атаковать демонстрируй подчинение. Когда ты близок — кажись далёким, но когда ты очень далеко — притворись, будто ты рядом."
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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#30
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Reb will be here soon and will explain to you that times have changed, so just delete it.


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Offline fil0sof
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#31
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*Here was a highly intellectual and profanity-laden post that has now been deleted.*

Argumentation. Level - God.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#32
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Simon5760
I think that's the whole point of the chess timer. It lets you choose between a long game or a timed one. And in general, if someone takes a long time to think, that's their problem; everyone is on equal footing, in my opinion.
I completely agree. The timer is just another resource that you need to learn how to manage effectively.

It might seem harsh, but why should the rules be adjusted for newcomers who supposedly feel uncomfortable entering the Gnomish Caverns?

If some mythical newcomer is running out of time in the Gnomish Caverns, they will have even more problems on a larger map in the late game, because they need to do much more and keep track of a larger amount of information.

The chess timer suits the vast majority of mid- and high-level players for a reason.
Kashchei
You can think about a strategy even during your opponent's turn.
Yeah, right? Seriously? Teach me how, because I can't do it. During scouting, a lot of new information is often revealed, and plans have to be changed on the fly. This is exactly why you need the time accumulated from previous turns.
Sanin
With this timer, a newbie is not on equal footing with experienced players.
But should they be? The same can be said about many games.
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