Interview with Rob King and Paul Romero:
https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/interview-with-rob-king-and-paul-romeroRough translation:
Since we announced Might & Magic Heroes 7, one of the most frequently asked questions has been—will the music be done by Rob King and Paul Anthony Romero? We are very happy to answer that today with a big YES!
To celebrate the return of the duo, we asked them a few questions about the past, present, and future!
1. 2015 marks the twentieth anniversary of the Heroes series. Can you tell us how you became connected to Might & Magic?Rob King:I started working at New World Computing back in February 1994 and was originally hired as the "sound guy," who then became the audio director. The idea for Heroes came from an early title called King's Bounty, which I believe John Van Caneghem created back in his parents' garage. It was one of the first projects I worked on at NWC. When I first saw the concept art, I was quickly inspired by a desire to create a baroque style influenced by classical scores. At that point, my musical background was writing pop/rock/electronic music, and I knew I needed a true classical guy to pull it off. About six months before getting my job at NWC, I went to a party with a friend, which just happened to be at Paul Romero's house. Paul was already somewhat known for throwing these magnificent parties with great food, drinks, and talented musicians gathering together to perform various musical repertoires. I met Paul in his kitchen over a glass of wine and instantly liked the guy while we discussed music and recording. Fast forward to when we started the concept for Heroes 1, I always kept Paul in mind from our first meeting and decided to call him. I told him my idea for the game, and he was excited enough by the idea and ready to take on the challenge of creating a score for a video game.
Paul Romero:Rob asked if I could do some baroque-style melodies that sounded like Vivaldi, Bach, or Handel... Since I grew up studying the music of Bach, Scarlatti, and Handel, I felt I knew how the harmonic and melodic content was constructed for that specific time period. And so I told Rob about the types of instruments and orchestration needed to capture a baroque era feel of that kind, and he assembled a full arsenal of sounds for me. Consequently, this became the start of our collaboration twenty years ago. We had one week to create the score for that first Heroes game. It was an exciting time for me because I had never played a computer game, and I had never created soundtrack music. I only had classical quiet concerts, choral works, piano pieces, and chamber music for concert performance. It was a completely new world for me: creating music to help build a fantasy world in a strategic computer game.
Rob King:As a side note, the early 90s were a time when games really started to have thematic scores. Games like Lands of Lore, Myst, King's Quest, and others. Much of the music was still done as General MIDI, using sound chips on Soundblaster or Turtle Beach cards. I really wanted a full-sounding score, so we chose streaming music from a CD player while you played. For Heroes II, we used mp3 technology for disk streaming to avoid the CD player tax, after I met Karlheinz Brandenburg from the Fraunhofer Institute at an AES show in 1995-96 in San Francisco, and I'm pretty sure it was the first game to ever use it! :) Few people actually know this piece of tech history. That kid made that technology go a long way!
We started writing the score in my apartment bedroom in South Pasadena, California. It was also finished there, using a very limited number of instruments. I think I had a couple of Roland JV modules and a couple of AKAI S-1100 modules. Everything was programmed and mixed live straight to DAT. So happy where that technology is today! This was largely the beginning of our working relationship and friendship. Today I consider him my brother. A chance meeting that produced a best friend twenty years later.
2. Even if it has retained the characteristic "King and Romero" touch that fans love and know, your music has evolved somewhat over these twenty years. How would you describe this evolution?Rob King:Obviously, technology played a big role in this, and I'm certainly a bit of a tech geek. I bought my first computer and sampler at age seventeen, a Roland S10, which had a colossal 256 kilobytes of RAM and used those little 2.8 "fast disks" that held 32 kilobytes on each side, and an Atari 1040ST to run the master tracks! Twenty years later we use three computers that can stream over four hundred orchestral template compositions that I've diligently created, with samples recorded in the best rooms around the world. It's crazy enough to think about. In Heroes II, we recorded all live musicians on ADAT. Now we have unlimited tracks, which really help with the musical details when you do it yourself.
Paul Romero:Rob always suggests trying a new sonic and musical path for every new project. Rob never does the same thing over and over. He pushes our musical language and expression with every new opportunity. Consequently, we go from basic baroque to full post-romanticism in the Heroes game series. A variety that ranges from Aztec to Vietnamese, Armenian to Persian, Chinese to Appalachian cultures... We always strive and push beyond the limits of our standard sound.
Rob King:Yes, we've always tried to do things a bit differently in each of the Heroes scores over the years, generally including other world instruments and vocalists. Heroes II was also the first game to ever feature an opera! To this day I can't think of many games that have this :) I know I must have fought for this idea, as everyone thought it was a bit crazy to want to do this in a "video game." Fortunately, I got my way, and it turned out to be a sort of staple over the years through various scores. Some of the best operas are currently in the Heroes VII score. Paul brought in Karin Mushegein at age sixteen or seventeen in Heroes II, and she returns in Heroes VII. She is better than ever, eighteen years later. Her voice has become magnificent and it's interesting to hear her progress over the years. To change things up a bit, I even sing in two songs on the Heroes VII soundtrack. I've been a singer since age fourteen and finally decided to do something in one of our scores. I hope I didn't mess it up :)
3. What gave you the idea to add opera to the music in the first place?Paul Romero:Rob went with me to see La Bohème at the Los Angeles Opera and brainstormed: how would it be if we included operatic voices in the soundtrack? How could I say "no" to that proposal. I've been composing classical opera music since I was a teenager, and now having the opportunity to write opera-like music for a computer game was a fantastic possibility. I wanted to see if it was possible to make music that sounded like an opera pleasant to the player's ear. I was taking piano lessons from the sons of film producer Howard Kazanjian (Star Wars) at the time. They had a young cousin named Karin Mushegein who studied opera. So I met her and asked if she would be willing to record some opera-like music for Heroes II. She was only fifteen at the time, and she, I, and Rob had a great time working together. It was a first for all of us. My buddy Grant Youngblood, who is one of the best baritones in America, was in Los Angeles during an opera tour, and I asked if he could also join us to try and do some operatic music for Heroes II. So we gathered in Rob's studio and tried to do some music from a Roman Catholic requiem in both Latin and German.
Rob King:The idea for Heroes II largely came from that night after watching La Bohème. I also knew that opera had never been done in video games before, and that also appealed to me. Opera isn't for everyone, and I fully recognized that when considering the presentation of it. Paul was simpler; he basically said, "Yes, let's do it," without batting an eye. The New World Computing development team, on the other hand, had very mixed feelings :) I remember heading into John's office, and he looked me straight in the face and said, "Oh, no." Mark Caldwell, who was the vice president, was also against it but turned out to be a bit more receptive to trying the idea. John just wasn't a fan of opera. After several weeks of pleading and many jokes about it, he was ready for the idea on one condition: that we have mixes of music without vocals as an option for the user to switch between them. One of the artists at NWC came up with a cute little icon/button of an opera singer with an open or closed mouth in the game's music options menu, which then allowed the user to disable the vocals in the composition. We had both streaming versions, so you could switch between the two. I remember being quite nervous when the game came out, but everything worked and most fans of the game really enjoyed it.
4. As composers, how did you approach the Heroes VII project? What was similar to past Heroes games, and what was different?Paul Romero:The approach differed because we wanted each piece to have its own sonic and musical style. Each theme was a standalone from a harmonic and melodic structural point of view. They range from neo-baroque to post-romanticism.
Rob King:In a way, we approach it the same as we did in Heroes 1. Paul and I get together and discuss the general atmosphere of what we'd like to do and set it in motion. First, I build a template of orchestral sounds that I want to use for the score, and this usually takes a couple of weeks to fine-tune, while Paul starts working from home on his Steinway around the same time. We knew we wanted opera again, as well as other vocal numbers. From the start, we decided that the languages we wanted to use this time were Greek and Armenian. We choose a language in each game and try to stay on course with beautiful emotional melodies—and god knows what we could do without more damn evil chants from a Latin choir in these so-called "epic" scores these days. Damn... :) Heroes II was German and Latin, Heroes IV was all Latin, Heroes V started in English and then we redid it in Latin and some made-up words :) Heroes V had all original lyrics, whereas in previous games we used excerpts from the Bible—they tell good stories there, right? We did a game called RIFT a few years earlier, and that game had Persian and ancient Aztec languages in the score. Maybe something from Eastern Europe next time? Perhaps something as obscure as Mongolian? It has to be something a bit unusual for me to get excited. Ha! Again, technology and advancements in Sound Design and samples also played a role in evolving our sound.
5. As you mentioned earlier, Heroes VII marks the return of opera singer Karin Mushengein. What was it like working with Karin again?Rob King:Karin is so easy to work with. We've all been friends for so long and know each other so well that it just flows effortlessly. We also constantly joke around in the studio, and we all love spending time together. No auto-tune here, guys! The girl has serious skills now. I also used my 1955 AKG C12 microphone this time for her vocals, and the recording sounds simply stunning. Without a doubt, her best performance in a Heroes score to date.
Paul Romero:Karin Mushegein has a voice that reaches a pinnacle of power, control, and beauty. I don't think there is another mezzo-soprano in the world who could sing more beautifully in these compositions. It was pure pleasure and a happy moment to be able to work with her again. Being able to capture her voice at this stage of her career is a fantastic and magnificent opportunity. Plus, she is a surprisingly funny and charming woman on a personal level. So it's a win-win situation for everyone.
6. We often receive fan letters asking about the lyrics of the opera parts :) How do you write these lyrics?Rob King:Basically, we start with what we want to say, and then find the right phrases to fit the melodic flow. Heroes VII was about eternal heroism and the old "Good vs Evil." We come up with phrases related to "Good vs Evil," such as sharp points and random other phrases, and then translate them into the language. From there, whatever the phrases are, we use those that best fit the melody and flow of the song.
Paul Romero:We always strive and express ourselves using various means. This means not only expanding our musical, harmonic, and technological language, but also our actual language of choice. Rob and I have used German, Latin, Nahuatl (Aztec), French, and Farsi in the past. I thought Greek would be good because the idea of a Hero is so closely linked to Greek mythology. So why not use the Greek language to express heroic thoughts? Plus, I wanted to use some Armenian as a tribute to Karin Mushegein's ancestral past.
7. Could you describe the process of composing a specific piece: Hope for Green Falls (used in-game as the Haven faction theme)? From the first melodies to the final mixed composition.Rob King:It usually all starts with a mood. For this track, I knew I wanted ethnic flutes in the middle section playing under Karin's vocals. So the sonic palette started quite early. I also like to listen to many different musical scores to find inspiration and mood. There is one song in the Heroes VII score called Requiem For a King. I remember listening to John Williams and Yo-Yo Ma's Seven Years in Tibet score. I just really liked the sound of that recording, and the music is wonderful. I wanted to capture that sound from that score in this melody, especially the cello solo. Our good friend Fang Fang Xu played beautifully on the cello in this song, and it's one of my favorites in the score.
Paul Romero:I listened to Richard Strauss's Four Last Songs for soprano and orchestra. This particular score tells the story of the final seasons of human life with lyrics by Hermann Hesse. This gave me inspiration for this specific composition. I started writing on the piano at home, then brought it into the studio for Rob and myself to program. We started with strings and harp and built the orchestration around those performances. The opening winds are ethnically ambiguous, so you can feel "far away" emotionally... Karin's voice enters to soothe you and gives you hope. The orchestra carries you and leads you to new heights of heroic hope.
Rob King:Once we did the compositions in Cubase, and Paul finished playing the last MIDI data note, I then go through each track separately and program key switches, breath, and velocity data for all instruments one by one, making them sound as natural and organic as possible. After this tedious task is done, each individual instrument is tracked through my API Sidecar into Protools. I just love what it does with digital files. Once all devices are tracked in Protools, I then go through adjusting the timing of each wav file so that the time selection is appropriate and the sample is rid of any MIDI latency issues. By the way, we don't quantize anything in these recordings. Each part is performed either by Paul or me, and then edited for human timing. It takes a lot of time, but I feel it really makes everything sound incredibly organic. Then several elements were tracked live and put into the mix. After the music was all finished, we then asked Karin to come in and do the vocals; I think the final take was take 2 on this particular piece. After the song was completed, I then started mixing. I use a combination of software plugins and analog outboard gear. For the vocals, there was a Retro 176 Comp for some Mojo and to smooth out some of the peaks in Karin's range. The reverbs used in the song for various atmospheres come from my Bricasti M7 hardware reverbs. On the Protools input master bus, I have a Manley Backbone mastering console connected. The chain used on the master bus for the entire score was generally: Burl DA converter – Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor – Amtec PEQ-10 (Pultec type) tube EQ’s – Maslec MPL2 peak and high frequency M/S limiter – GML 8200 Stereo EQ – Burl AD Converter. Everything just does a little bit to put some glue in the mix.
8. Looking back at these 20 years of Heroes, which composition are you most proud of?Rob King:I love the harpsichord piece from Heroes 1, Grass Theme in Heroes IV, Sylvan Theme in Heroes V; much of the "Tribes of the East" expansion turned out pretty cool, and in this new soundtrack I love most of it (maybe because it's new? :) My favorites are Hope for Green Falls, Requiem For a King, The Elven Coronation, and The Wizard’s Waltz. Honestly, we've made so much music in this series that it's just crazy. Probably somewhere from six to eight hours across all titles and expansions over the last two decades. I can't even remember most of it.
Paul Romero:I am most proud of Heroes VII because every melody is fully expressed in my musical satisfaction. If I never had the chance to compose another soundtrack, I would be happy that this was my last. It's everything I want to say musically at this time in my life.
9. Paul, I believe you will soon be in Poland for a music festival, with special pleasure for Heroes fans... Can you tell us more?Paul Romero:I have a friend who is organizing full Might & Magic Heroes concerts with an orchestra, choir, and opera soloists. I am composing same-time piano concerts for Might & Magic Heroes, so I can be solo with the orchestra and play many melodies from Heroes in a piano concerto format. The concert organizers will announce the date as soon as everything is ready! I hope that Heroes fans from all over Europe can attend this event and hear their favorite melodies in a format different from what they hear in game scores.
Rob King:I can add a little, but I spent two weeks canoeing in northern Poland and spent some time in the beautiful city of Gdansk. I'd like to go back there again sometime.
10. In conclusion, do you have a message for Heroes fans?Paul Romero:I very much love and appreciate that fans of the game find the time to write and express how they enjoy the musical aspects of Heroes. It means a lot to me because Rob and I really try our best to make good music from both a technical and musical point of view. It's rewarding and touching that people actually notice and then write to us to thank us, so I want to thank them. It's pointless trying to create good music if no one is listening, and the fans of great Heroes let us know that someone out there is listening!
Rob King:Thank you for supporting the music. Hearing positive feedback and countless cover versions of various themes over the last two decades on YouTube is truly amazing, especially from all the Eastern European fans. Paul and I enjoy working on these scores, and it has become a big part of our musical existence. Thank you for letting us continue our role in Heroes.
Be well,
Paul Romero and Rob King.