Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.

It’s logical that as the size and power of a creature increase, it should become less agile. But does this apply to the Phoenix, for which you have to spend a lot of mana on a powerful spell, only to get either a weak creature with high initiative or a bulky creature that moves once every 10 turns?...I don’t know.

Alternatively, you can also increase mana, just like with the Avatar of Death from Arantir... That is, you either summon a small phoenix and continue casting spells, or you summon a powerful creature once and spend the rest of the battle doing nothing. Of course, this is less original...

As an alternative, by the way, you can increase mana, like with the Avatar of Death for Arantir... That is, you either summon a small phoenix and continue casting spells, or you summon a super-powerful creature once and spend the rest of the battle as a weakling. Of course, this is less original...

There is no such technical possibility.
As mentioned above, the phoenix will never be a super-powerful creature, i.e., it won't single-handedly decimate an army. Rather, it acts as a regular tier 7 unit, sometimes twice as strong with high magic power.

Arantir, by the way, is one of the playable heroes in the mod, so his ability to fully absorb mana is relevant. How the avatar will grow for Arantir is still being considered, but it will likely only increase attack and defense stats, unlike the phoenix. That is, not in size, but in ability. Initially, I considered this mechanic specifically for the phoenix, but rejected it due to the excessively rapid increase in power with high magic power, while it is suitable for the Avatar, since its level is limited much more strictly than magic power.

Most likely, the Avatar will look something like this:
Cost = Hero Level
Initiative = Hero Level (it is necessary to use initiative to justify the ridiculously low cost at low levels)
Attack = 20 + Hero Level
Defense = 20 + Hero Level
All other stats and abilities are fixed and do not depend on the hero level.

Added 33 minutes ago

The idea is good, I like it. But in my humble opinion, the dependence of initiative on magic power is too great... The ideal phoenix will have an initiative of around 4-6, which is a very useful parameter for a summon; the more it interferes with the enemy, the better. With an initiative of 6, this creature is useless in my humble opinion...

But how can it be at 4-6 if damage and HP grow quickly, and initiative only starts to decrease rapidly below 6 (by 10% per spell power).

The peak form, as I already said, comes with magic power = 17.
A phoenix with initiative 6, damage 120, and HP 510 will be much stronger than a phoenix with initiative 13, damage 48, and HP 150.
Also, consider the fire shield that returns 100% of the damage; a larger phoenix will leave much more burns behind than a smaller one.

The peak of active form, in terms of maximum damage per unit of time, occurs at magic power 12 - this is a phoenix with initiative 9, damage 90, and HP 360. As you can see, at magic power = 17, it decreases in "activity" by only 10%, but is 40% stronger.
Keep in mind that stats play twice as much of a role, i.e., magic power = 12 in Warlords of the Ancient Races (WOTAR) is approximately equivalent to 24 in the original, and 17 is 34. Because physical stats give twice the bonus (10% instead of 5%), and the mage won't have time to increase magical stats to astronomical levels. This is not a game about "killing everyone, leveling up to 30+, running around the map for bonuses, and dressing in relics from head to toe." What will happen under these conditions in terms of balance is completely irrelevant, since they have a very distant relationship to strategy.

Below 10 (or at least 9), it's unusable. It will simply be ignored. Unless with magic power 60, it can one-shot someone once with initiative 1 and then summon a new one.

This phoenix is designed not for the original game, but for WOTAR. This means that the summoned creature will have time to be useful even with low initiative, because there is no such thing here that half the army will be destroyed on the first turn.

It makes sense that as the size and power increase, the creature should become more cumbersome. But is this applicable to the phoenix, for which you have to spend a lot of mana on a powerful spell, and get either a weakling with high initiative or a fat guy who moves once every 10 normal turns?...I don't know.

You don't need a cumbersome phoenix - just don't use it with magic power above 17, what's the problem. Instead of a phoenix for 20 mana, there are alternative elementals for 18, which can be easily obtained during leveling or from a ring. There, the spell power is 20+, if the opponent allows you to level up that much, and it will be useful.

As I already said, the phoenix has become similar to short-term buffs. Of course, the duration = 0.25*(Magic Power+1) strongly depends on magic power, but at the same time, with magic power above 20, you get more than 5 rounds, which is usually unnecessary, and it is better to use super magic on other spells. In general, it can be said that in a large battle, the phoenix on the field is not a warrior. You are asking for too much from one small bird.

Yeah, it's a decent option.

Initiative = Hero level (you have to use initiative to justify the ridiculously low price at lower levels)

Isn't the starting bonus too weak at levels below ten? Maybe give a starting bonus of at least 5? Yes, and if the hero rarely levels up above 20, then 25 initiative would be just right in that case.

Yeah, that's a decent option.

Isn't the starting point too weak at levels below ten? Maybe give a starting bonus of at least 5 units? And if the hero rarely reaches level 20, then 25 initiative would be just right in that case.

25 initiative for undead, when Fortress starts with 16? That's too much.

The start is definitely not weak; starting from level 3, the avatar is already effective, and it costs the same as a level 1 spell (3 mana). An initiative of 3 means that the summoned avatar will get a turn in 3 rounds, which is quite good, considering that it's a high-level creature.

If it were possible to set a starting price, I wouldn't even use initiative, only stats. Initiative is a necessary element in balancing the price.

A Phoenix with initiative 6, damage 120, and HP 510 will be much stronger than a Phoenix with initiative 13, damage 48, and HP 150.

It depends on the goals, of course, but in general, I would argue... As I said, initiative=6 is very low for a summon; yes, 120 damage is great, but I'm afraid that by that time, the battle will already be decided without the Phoenix. With initiative 13, you have many more tactical options: to finish off someone, to eliminate ranged units, etc.

Also, consider the 100% damage reflection fire shield; a larger Phoenix will leave much more burn damage behind than a smaller one.

This is relevant up to a certain point. Otherwise, it will be like in the joke about cowboys.
--Ouch, what just flew by?
--It was the Elusive Joe...
--Really, the Elusive Joe?
--I don't know... But who needs him anyway?

The peak of the active form, with maximum damage per unit of time, occurs at spell power 12 - this is a Phoenix with initiative 9, damage 90, and HP 360.

Well, this is already relevant. But isn't that too much of a limitation? Spell power 12... If this is the hero's primary stat, which grows faster than others, it will be a bit sad... Although the comment about elementals is also logical.

It depends on the goals, of course, but in general, I would argue... I'm telling you, an initiative of 6 is very low for a summoned creature, yes, 120 damage is great, but I'm afraid that by that time the battle will already be decided without the phoenix. With an initiative of 13, you have much more tactical options: to finish off someone, to take out the ranged units, etc.

120 damage with such an attack means it can take down 1 dragon. An initiative of 6 is quite significant, at least judging by how dangerous units with an initiative of 7 are (not in the original game, but in WGE).

The beauty of such a phoenix is that mages with low magic skills will fundamentally use it differently than mages with high magic skills. This creates, as it were, 4 roles:
1) a fast, weak unit with low magic skills (which is essentially what a regular phoenix is)
2) with a focus on peak aggression with magic skills up to 12
3) with a focus on peak strength with magic skills up to 17
4) with a focus on a passive tank with magic skills above 17 (a super-powerful replacement for the Wall of Swords by that time)

Well, this is already relevant. But isn't that too much of a limitation? Magic skills of 12... If this is the primary stat for a hero, which grows faster than others, it will be disappointing... Although the comment about elementals is also logical.

The primary stat grows to 12 by level 21, i.e., in a long game. Then there are bonuses from artifacts and leveling up. If the goal is to raise the stat to above 20 at any cost, then, of course, it can be done (with low other stats), but why play a phoenix then, when there are elementals that are focused on the highest stat?

There is, by the way, an option in the late game to get shamans or chieftains and tank with the phoenix. In this case, its low initiative won't matter. Shamans provide a 30% bonus (inspiration), chieftains provide a 10% bonus and 5 damage for each. Plus, there are several units in the game with an initiative aura of +2, as well as several units with a maximum morale aura of +5. And expert acceleration increases initiative by 2.2 times.

Finally, a powerful phoenix in a waiting position, with its speed of 6, keeps most of the battlefield in fear and is not afraid of being blocked by heavy units, as it deals a lot of damage with its fire shield.

The primary stat grows to 12 by level 21, i.e., in a prolonged game. Further bonuses come from artifacts and leveling up. If the goal is to raise the stat above 20 at any cost, then it can be done (with the other stats being low), but why play as a Phoenix then, when there are elementals that are geared towards having the highest stat?

Well, if level 21 is already a prolonged game, then everything is fine, I think. That is, on average, the main battles between players should take place around levels 15-17, am I right?

Added 1 minute ago
Then the Phoenix turns out not to be an uber-monster, but a fast, but relatively weak unit of level 7, or even lower. It will be good for blocking archers, I think.

Well, if level 21 is already a long game. Then it's okay, I think. That is, on average, the main battles between players should take place around levels 15-17, am I right?

Added 1 minute ago
Then the Phoenix turns out not to be an uber-monster, but a fast, but relatively weak unit of level 7, or even less. It will be good for blocking archers, I think.

On average, battles will be around level 10, and the final ones will be closer to level 15.

Then the Phoenix turns out not to be an uber-monster, but a fast, but relatively weak unit of level 7, or even less. It will be good for blocking archers, I think.

A real Phoenix is exactly that - a level 7 unit, no more, no less. The summoned version will be weaker than level 7 only at very low magic levels, less than 4 (on expert).

I said at the beginning that the Phoenix cannot be an uber-monster in principle. Uber-monsters in Heroes are level 7 creatures, and against their background, the Phoenix does not stand out much (as I already wrote, at its peak, it can take down up to 2 dragons).

Moreover, regarding the late game, the Phoenix will hardly be useful in final battles with a high-level opponent, because it takes damage like a simple level 7 creature, i.e., a level 18 hero deals half damage to the Phoenix with a basic attack (and this is without enhancements).

The Avatar, even at level 20, will be comparable in overall strength to a peak Phoenix. On the one hand, specialization and mana risk - and on the other hand, requirements for magic level, skill requirements + the requirement for a level 5 spell.

Added 19 hours 38 minutes ago
I reviewed the Avatar, the bonuses will be distributed as follows:
Cost = level
Attack = CONSTANT + 2*level
Defense = CONSTANT + 2*level
Initiative = 2+level

At level 7, the Avatar is summoned = a copy of the Dragon, it will use their model/abilities. But formally, the Avatar will be level 7 (like the Phoenix), and not level 6. Due to its incorporeality, it will be much harder to kill it with hero attacks, but easier with Chaos, because the Avatar's HP does not increase, unlike the Phoenix.

At level 18, the Avatar will already reach the strength of a peak Phoenix, but due to its initiative of 20, it will enter the game much earlier.

There’s an interesting idea for reviving the flyer class, which was removed in the original Heroes 5 because infantry could have similarly high speeds (7-8). For example, in Heroes 3, flyer speeds were twice as high as infantry speeds, and in Heroes 1, flyers could fly across the entire battlefield.

The speed of all flying units will be increased by 2 (and their damage will be slightly reduced). Thus:
- the speed of small infantry is 3-5, flyers will have 5-7
- the speed of large infantry is 4-6, flyers will have 6-8
That is, infantry will always be inferior to flyers in mobility, as the class requires.

Therefore, the concept of reduced speeds in the mod should be read as the concept of reduced infantry speeds, against which flyers stand out.

Previously, I was concerned that speeds above 6 would break the game and all maneuvers, but practical tests have shown that this adds extra excitement and variety without breaking the tactics, provided that fast units (flyers) do NOT dominate the battlefield and act as exceptional units, and can also be blocked by heavy-class troops (none of this is true in the original).

In short, I don’t see any obstacles preventing the return of true flyers to the game, their exception only emphasizing the general rule of low speeds!

Currently, improvements are also being made to another class of units – casters. Casters receive expanded spellbooks (the average number of spells has increased from 2 to 3), and they also have more mana for spellcasting overall, so many units will have enough for 2-3 casts.

Hello. I really liked the mod. I hope it will continue to improve even more.
Regarding the flying units, I have a suggestion: maybe you could give them a stronger attack against heavy units? After all, heavy infantry should definitely have a harder time fighting a flying creature than regular troops - you can't really defend against an attack from the air, and you can't run away very well with heavy armor.
P.S. When will the next version of the mod be released, and why isn't the website working?

Regarding flyers, if it were up to me, I would give them a heavy class disadvantage, but unfortunately, this is not technically feasible. Currently, flyers are a direct counter to archers and are overpowered against infantry (especially heavy class, against which it is impossible to implement a speed advantage). The next version of the mod (the duel release) is planned within a week, and intermediate versions and development details are currently being discussed on the Heroes League. I will restore the website immediately after the duel release. This year (2014), we also plan to delve into and master the Arena mode (i.e., RTA-style maps) as deeply as we did with the units, including aspects such as heroes, their progression, and artifacts. Once this is brought to the same high level, we can finally move on to the map mode.

Are there any plans to make the heroes more diverse in the new duel mode, perhaps by adding new abilities or spells?

Are there any plans to make the heroes more diverse in the new duel mode, by adding more abilities or spells?

I don't know which version you're playing, but in the current version (0.99), each dueling hero (as a representative of a class) is unique in terms of stats, as well as in terms of their primary schools and available spells (orcs are unique in their distribution of stun and luck).

Further division of heroes within duels is not planned, because the main point of duels lies in the troops, not the heroes. For full inclusion of heroes in the battle (with constantly changing (rather than predetermined) upgrades and artifacts), there is the RTA (Random Tactical Arena) map mode. This year, we are planning to implement such an Arena mode specifically for the WGE mod.

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I'm playing using the link on this page, post 162. I didn't find another link on this forum.