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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” Auto-translated

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In reply to Grando
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#1815
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Yes, the point is that changing something would alter the game, and every game has its own nuances. I've seen interesting map designs, but nothing like this before. And I repeat, Oldboy won deservedly; he truly assessed the battle, while shameonyou missed the moment and lost as a result.

P.S. Soon, we'll need to read these interpretations before going to bed.
In reply to Wicc
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#1816
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The draw option is problematic because most matches require a win, and a draw doesn't satisfy either side. Replaying a match takes up a lot of time. Therefore, the rules should clearly state who retreats in a stalemate situation. The "attacker retreats" option sometimes leads to seemingly unfair outcomes, but it's much more interesting strategically, requiring more factors to be considered when planning a battle. It also allows for fighting in seemingly hopeless situations, such as when the opponent has a legion of skeletons. The "defender retreats" option is fairer in terms of the battle's outcome. If anything needs to be changed in the rules, it's the clause about being stuck in handcuffs. Loading an autosave, in my opinion, doesn't align with the spirit of the game; all in-game situations should be resolved within the game itself. For this case, I would suggest an amendment to the rules: "in the event of a stalemate in handcuffs, the fleeing side must accept the battle."
In reply to Wicc
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#1817
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If the rules regarding retreat are to be changed, it shouldn’t be because of a single game out of thousands, or due to some specific landscape.
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In reply to Wicc
#1818
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Wicc
The option with a draw is bad because in most matches, a win is needed; a draw doesn't suit either side.
What is "most"? Roughly – about 5% of matches, no more. Tournaments with a knockout system.
In seasonal leagues and tournaments with a round-robin format, a win isn't necessary.
Is 5% really a majority?
And replaying a match is a significant time delay.
B. And, by the way, besides the fact that a draw will only be a time constraint in 5% of cases – how often will a stalemate situation arise in those 5%?
If anything needs to be changed in the rules, it's the clause about a stalemate with restricted movement. Loading an autosave, in my opinion, doesn't match the spirit of the game; all game situations should be resolved within the game itself. For this case, I would suggest an amendment to the rules – "in the event of a stalemate with restricted movement, the fleeing side must accept the battle."
I think this is correct.
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In reply to Wicc
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#1819
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Wicc


The "attacker retreats" option sometimes leads to a seemingly unfair battle outcome, but it is much more interesting strategically, requiring you to consider more factors when planning a battle. And it allows you to fight in seemingly hopeless situations like "the opponent has a legion of skeletons."

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Yeah, that's totally interesting when you attack a scout hero with a stack of Wyverns, he stuffs the serpent into a place unreachable for the Wyverns and that's it, game over. By the spirit of the game, this is complete nonsense.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
In reply to Grando
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#1820
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Oldboy
Most of them – how many? Roughly – about 5 matches, no more. Tournament games with elimination rounds.
In seasonal leagues and tournaments with a round-robin format, a win isn't necessary.
Is 5% really a majority?
"Majority" means almost all tournament games. In single and double elimination – absolutely all, and in round-robin and Swiss-system tournaments – a significant portion. Simply because usually only one place matters – the first, meaning a draw is generally equivalent to a loss and only gives an advantage in sharing additional places.

I'm not considering seasonal leagues, as the result isn't the main thing there.
In reply to Javdet
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#1822
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Javdet
Yeah, it's totally crazy when you attack a scout hero with a stack of Wyverns, he sticks a snake in a place unreachable for the Wyverns and that's it, game over. In the spirit of the game, this is complete nonsense.
Try to recall a previous similar episode. I couldn't.

But I can remember at least a dozen games where the defending side deliberately played for a draw.
In reply to Wicc
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#1823
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Wicc
Try to remember a previous similar episode. I couldn't.

But I can recall at least a dozen games where the defending side deliberately played to stall.
To prevent such an episode from happening again, I see two options:

1. Ask Baratorch to remove this terrain feature from the game.
2. Slightly expand the rule regarding stalling. When such a terrain feature appears, prohibit its use for such purposes.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
In reply to Javdet
#1824
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Javdet
To prevent such an episode from happening again, I see two options:

1. Ask Baratortcha to remove this relief from the game.
2. Slightly expand the rule about paths. When such a relief appears, prohibit its use for similar purposes.
I completely agree with Javdet, and his position is clear to me. Imagine finishing 2nd for the 4th time because of a relief; that would be epic!)))
Well, Javdet, I just wanted to joke; don't be offended. But I agree with you about the relief. If the developers knew this was possible, they would have said it was a bug and fixed it.
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In reply to Wicc
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#1825
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Yeah, if the developers had known that one angel would be running around the battlefield while a thousand skeletons were present, they would have fixed it. And after a certain number of turns, the creatures would start losing health, and a basic Arcomage spell would be cast, dealing damage to everyone, regardless of resistances, etc. If only the developers had known...
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In reply to Wicc
#1826
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The_
they would fix it so that after a certain number of turns, creatures would start losing life; a basic spell would be cast that would deal damage to everyone, regardless of resistances, etc.
That's pretty much how it is. :) On round 2^32, all creatures die due to an overflow of the round counter used for clones (but also ticking for all other creatures).
In reply to Wicc
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#1827
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Actually, there are quite a lot of closed terrains; this is often used in offline tournaments. Online, I can recall such a situation quite recently on a stream. A scout hero was attacked by 7 single wolves, and there was one gargoyle there that had a place in the center... But it's such a rare case that it will very, very rarely be decisive, and even if it is, it's a one-in-a-million case that can be ignored.

I consider the option of a draw due to some unrelated fight completely inappropriate, since almost all tournaments use a playoff system, and draws are completely unnecessary there.

The option that the one avoiding the fight should retreat is actually not bad. It's not better, not worse, it's just different with its own peculiarities. But changing the rules so radically because of a dubious episode, in my opinion, is not very good. The rule change will affect not so much the finals as the battles of scout heroes, where skeletons fight fairies, etc.

I still believe that the attacker should bear the responsibility for the outcome of the battle, and such minor coincidences, which will happen once in a hundred years, should remain for a laugh. We have 1000+ games every season, a bunch of tournaments, etc., and we somehow lived before.

P.S. By the way, for those who cited chess as an analogy. If in chess there are cup tournaments and a winner must be determined, they play the last game where, in the case of a draw, black advances further in the bracket.
In reply to Dirty_Player
#1828
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Dirty_Player
actually, there are quite a lot of closed terrains, and they are often used in offline tournaments. In online play, I can recall such a situation quite recently on a stream. Someone attacked a scout hero with 7 units of wolves, and there was one gargoyle there, for which there was space in the center... But this is such a rare case that it will very, very rarely prove critical, and if it does, it's a 1 in a million case that can be disregarded.

The option of a draw due to some unrelated battle I consider completely inappropriate, because almost all tournaments use a playoff system, and draws there are not needed at all.

The option that the one avoiding the fight should retreat is actually not bad. It's not better, not worse, it's just different with its own features. But changing the rules so radically because of a questionable episode, in my opinion, is not very good. The rule change will affect not so much the finals as the scout hero battles, where skeletons against fairies, etc.

I still believe that the responsibility for the outcome of a battle should lie with the attacker, and such minor coincidences that happen once in a hundred years should remain for laughs. We have 1000+ games each season, a bunch of tournaments, etc., and we somehow managed before.

P.S. By the way, for those who cited chess as an analogy. If chess has cup tournaments and a winner must be determined, they play a final game where, in the event of a draw, black advances further in the bracket.


We are not talking about a minor issue here. This affects many games. Recently I saw The_ attack someone with an overwhelming force of skeletons with speed 7. The other guy can outrun him because of the battlefield and red orb and despite shackles he loses the game. Its ridiculous. You are basically telling a guy with a skeleton army that he cant attack unless he knows the battlefield or knows the opponent doesnt have red orb. The same goes for a guy who goes for demons. An army of overwhelming force doesnt flee, it goes wherever it wants. An army that runs around avoiding confrontation is fleeing already. Whoever started the battle doesnt matter.
In reply to Wicc
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#1829
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I can translate what Maretti writes, but how he translates what we write is a big mystery to me: rolleyes:

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
In reply to LeBron
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#1830
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LeBron
I can translate what Maretti writes, but how he translates what we write is a big mystery to me:rolleyes:

I studied Russian in school, what's so unusual about that... Russian is taught in all Danish schools... :smile04: