Posts from The 8th stage of the annual John Van Caneghem Tournament (2008). Auto-translated

WOW!!! Sorry, everything will be ready in the evening, I just don't have time right now!!!
Thank you to the organizer for the interesting tournament!!!!!!! :smile44:

Hello everyone!
I read the discussions about the tournament, and it's quite an entertaining conversation. Wlk777 is particularly good! It's clear he's a pro ;)
Regarding my playthrough, I decided to play as Roland instead of Dess, due to the secondary criterion. I'm satisfied with the result (the place I achieved). Those who finished higher deserve to win – it wouldn't be a shame to let such talented players win. And I wouldn't have the brains to beat some of them anyway :) (see the rating).
PS: You need to find positive aspects in everything – for example, I won't have to write a description :)

to Wlk777
check out the "For Sale" and "The Miner's Adventure" tournaments and you'll see what the map limit is.

2Dirty Player, Fireball: Respect! I wasn't even doubting that you'd achieve such an amazing result.

Sorry for my comment.

Well, I was the last one after all! Thanks to the organizer for the tournament, I'm looking forward to the winners' descriptions! It was nice to play this game for the first time!

Man, Dirty is just a maniac:D I knew it! (We should definitely do something like in the last tournament for the fifth game next time:D) Anyway, congratulations to the winners! I was surprised by the result... How did you manage to reach the Inferno castle before the 8th day (especially since you captured all the mines =-O)??? Honestly, I didn't expect 7 days! You guys beat me again with my 15 days... and I have twice as little experience... (so it's the same for both the hero and me :))
Please explain how you managed to get past the border guard if the computer didn't open it with devils? Did you really move the phoenixes so quickly?? I'm racking my brain...

Okay)) Congratulations again on finishing! The tournament was good, thanks to the organizer, next time I'll try to show a better game... I'll be analyzing the reports of the winners, I'm sure they'll write a lot of interesting things! :D

MONDAY.
At the start we have only one hero, but I really want to capture the blue Conflux. I need to solve the logistical puzzle proposed by the map author. On the first day, I must break through the garrison and push as far as possible. Executing. Roland visits the stone of knowledge (Basic Logistics), the unity flag, recruits 10 archers, hits the garrison (loss of 1 griffon), leaves the archers there and spends the night at (18;6;0). "E"

TUESDAY.
The hardest day. I need to map out a plan and buy the necessary heroes. A tavern appears—yay! Immediately buying Riland, recruiting 4 crusaders and connecting all centaurs. Buying Rozik. Very important moment. The ideal hero for breaking through the Archdevil since he has Magic Arrow and a very important gnoll who will help in the swamp. Visiting the stone of knowledge (Basic Fire, just right), killing the Archdevil and visiting the little tent (will fire him later). Buying Jela, turning archers into snipers and clearing the path for King Roland, who in turn takes the Conflux (1 move remaining).
Buying Caitlin, going to collect cash. In the conflux, buying Jem (Summon Ship) and firing Roland. Buying Grindan (I messed up here! Grindan is a good hero, +350 and has Basic Pathfinding, but no Literacy... So I had to have Jem eat an experience chest. The ideal would have been to buy Coronius, who has everything needed, and there was enough money anyway).
Buying Adele (Advanced Diplomacy) and Dessa (The Man!). Adele recruits Gold Golems and Sharpshooters. Dessa turns in the holy sandals and levels up to 8 (Expert Wisdom, Expert Logistics, Advanced First Aid, Basic Air!!!!). Teaching Grindan the spell Summon Ship, summoning two boats, which are taken by Dessa and Grindan. Buying Dragon (Wizard) and capturing the stone mine—the first one is ours!!! "E"

WEDNESDAY.
Adele recruits birds for money and takes a can of food without losses. Jem takes speed boots. Pier is bought and takes the naga-bank. We move the fighters to sea and land them on the island. Dessa with an angel and in boots (under 4000 mp!!!), Grindan with everything else. Buying Voy and putting her in a boat.
In the main castle, the King is bought, takes Pandora's box with learnability and is fired. "E"

THURSDAY.
Grindan hits Great Basilisks and the abandoned mine. Dessa hits Cows and enters the monolith. Army—Sharpshooters, Wizard, Rockies—going without penalty, wiping out Thunderbeds, recruiting Nomads, hitting Diamond Golems, recruiting Vampires and dumping everything into the mine!
Caitlin hits Ogres, captures the mine, transfers everything to sea. Voy takes a small ship and lands on the islet. The King has a day off! "E"

FRIDAY.
Dessa visits the pyramid and learns DIMENSION DOOR there! Then boosting at the oasis (leveling up Expert Air) and doubling Mana (220). DD to the Fairy Forest, hitting the guards (pity about the snipers) and hiring a magic dragon (pity about the money). DD to the two-way monolith, taking the alchemist's laboratory and DD to the blue one, taking his castle and building a stable there. Buying Octavia, killing Christian. Buying Roland, killing Catherine (taking the bird and Blue is destroyed), visiting the blue tent, taking the gnome dwelling, visiting the flag, taking Pandora's box with tactics and firing him. Dessa visits the stable, stands where the same Pandora's box was and DDs right in front of Mariussa's house!
Buying Dragon (Gnolls) and killing Mariussa. Buying Riland, who takes the Devils external dwelling (leveling up Expert Diplomacy), recruits Efreet Sultans, kills Than (Orange is destroyed) and connects Rocs. "E"

SATURDAY.
Voy captures the gold mine and the lighthouse (curse it). Grindan takes the gem mine, where he spends the night. Dessa DDs to the seer's hut, where she trades the Fairy Dragon for the FLY spell. Taking the abandoned mine, the psycho external dwelling, flying into the fort on the hill, taking the Sword of Justice, DD, DD to the swamps to the Shield of Lion Courage. Taking the shield, the abandoned mine, the raven external dwelling, the lighthouse (damn it all) and DD to the Dragon Utopia (didn't even try to take the utopia because of the patch, though I really wanted to...), flying into the sulfur mine and carefully into the one-way monolith!! There Dragon (Wizard) takes the troops and Dessa is fired with a peaceful soul!
Buying King Roland, trading sandals for exp, stone of knowledge, can of food, naga-bank and resting. Edrick kills harpies, transfers troops to Caitlin, who clears all guards around (Rocs joined). Mutara Drake (big hello to her) kills ogres. "E"

SUNDAY.
In the city of Gateway, Dessa is bought; Gretchen brings her troops and is fired. Dessa flies into the two-way monolith and DDs to Nimussa's city. Lorelei kills Xiron. Riland recruits Thunderbirds and Ancient Bears. Adele captures the mine and kills Nimussa (Green is destroyed). Dessa DDs to the Dragon Utopia and tears it apart without losses! On the fly, we take the sulfur mine, DD to the abandoned mine, take the infinite ore cart and the cloak and carefully on the last MP we DD to the center!!! Then Grindan makes a crazy dash: visits the oasis, hits imps, visits the oasis, captures the sulfur mine, takes a chest, takes the stable, hits gold golems and carefully takes the alchemist's laboratory!!
In two Infernos, buying hellgates, Merist flies through the portal, takes everything from Dessa and back. Then just adding cosmetic touches, opening the gates for 2 ravens and 2 psychos, Pier and Dragon (Gnolls) take gem and crystal mines...
Final touch! The King himself comes out. All artifacts are given to him; he hits Nomads, the pyramid, Nomads, visits the oasis, kills Rags, visits the oasis, puts all artifacts on the altar, reaches level 23 and captures the last sulfur mine, bringing victory to his kingdom, and thanks everyone for the great work!

VICTORY!!!
Result:
Days – 7
King Roland's Experience – level 23 (140637exp)

Respectfully, Dirty Player.

Oops, I forgot to upload the save files. I've uploaded both the save files and the walkthrough, so I've done my part. ;)
If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!

2KOLb@zzeR

He paid the price for it in this tournament by losing first place.

The word "paid the price" is not appropriate here. I deliberately refrained from competing for higher places because the fun of the game is much more important to me than the position I occupy. In the previous tournament for me in the fifth game, I didn't even spend 30 minutes replaying and trying to get a dozen more parameters. And here, I had to essentially create a walkthrough within a walkthrough – and that's only for money. Although Dirty Player doesn't agree with me, but that's not surprising, because he is not only an obvious perfectionist, but also, as far as I understand, knew the map much better and for much longer than all the other participants.

I didn't choose the second criterion, experience, for nothing; I thought it would be the most interesting and harmonious with the main task – to capture all the mines.

You know, I didn't understand your idea and didn't appreciate it. It seemed like there were talks about removing the third criterion because it leads to unnecessary loss of real time during the playthrough. And then, suddenly, the potentially most time-consuming criterion in my memory. Plus, it's not entirely clear what the starting hero's experience should represent in the game, but that's just my opinion.

Although Dirty Player disagrees with me, but that’s not surprising, because he is not only an obvious perfectionist, but also, as far as I understand, knew the map much better and for longer than all other participants.

First of all, the map was available for download long before the tournament.
/topic/5091/
After Kolbazzer created the map, he suggested holding a competition on it; I looked at the map and gave my approval. Since he is the author of the map, he volunteered to run the tournament, and I decided to participate in the tournament as a player to support the quorum, which, by the way, is very lacking on ХВ.
Well, I agree that I knew about the map longer than others, but if anyone thinks that I won solely due to this, let them say so directly and without hints!

Secondly, I played through the map once and it took me two evenings. You don't have to be super smart to send all artifacts to the sacrificial altar on day 117 and get an extra 100k experience!

Thirdly, learn how to lose and don’t come up with excuses about a fun game! Instead of congratulating, thanking the organizer, saying a few nice words... nooo, instead, you just criticized everything here! It completely ruined my mood! :mad:

Dirty, congratulations on your victory!!!
I heard it was a tough one, but this is something else... +10 for the walkthrough, +10 for the description. Amazing! No words. Bravo and thank you. I learned so much new stuff... :)
A separate thank you to KOLb@zzeR for organizing the tournament, and thank you to everyone for playing.

P. S. And I'm so happy with my modest place, you wouldn't believe it. :) I'm going to go get a beer in the kitchen now.

Well, I agree that I knew about the map longer than others, but if anyone thinks that I won solely because of that, let them say so directly and without any hints!

Indeed, let them say so. I don't think so. My words should always be taken literally, not interpreted for hidden meanings. If there are any doubts, maybe it's worth clarifying them in a private message instead of just ranting here? But it's not difficult for me to give a clear answer here as well. I read your Walkthrough and think it's better than mine; I'm even considering trying to complete this map in 6 days now. The 7-day limit doesn't seem so obvious anymore.

Thirdly, learn to lose and stop making excuses about it being just a fun game!

You're judging by yourself. Take a look at the discussion of the 5th stage of the World Cup and read it. There, the organizer gave the task of quickly building a Grail structure, but he didn't take into account that it requires a level 15 city (i.e., on that map, no earlier than day 12). And the Grail itself could be taken on day 10. When the trick with the level was revealed, I didn't try hard and spend 2 days gathering parameters; instead, I simply built the structure on day 12 and sent the save. Wolf64 won that tournament, who managed to take the Grail only on day 11. But for some reason, when I honestly said that it was possible to act one day faster, and therefore have more parameters later, he didn't start shouting all sorts of nonsense about learning to lose, but instead expressed regret that I wasn't in the mood to properly replay the already completed Walkthrough. Because, indeed, you can play not for the win, but for the sake of the game itself.

I'm even considering spending 6 days on this map now. The 7-day limit doesn't seem so obvious anymore.

Initially, I was aiming for 6 days, but it wasn't working out...

Good day.

The word "suffered" is not appropriate here; I deliberately refrained from competing for higher places because the fun of the game is much more important to me than the position I occupy.

Fun is fun – I won't argue. Special thanks for participating and creating competition in the Tournaments.
It's a pity that not many strong players took part in the Tournaments.

You know, I didn't understand your idea and didn't appreciate it. It seemed like there were talks about removing the 3rd criterion because it leads to unnecessary time loss during gameplay. And then, suddenly, the potentially most time-consuming criterion in my memory. Plus, it's not entirely clear what the starting hero's experience should display in the game, but that's just my opinion.

Well, there isn't this 3rd criterion...
That's why the second criterion was chosen as experience. Why not the first? Because there have been Tournaments based on experience, but not on mines... So, it was decided to choose these two criteria.
To be honest, the choice of the second criterion was also influenced by the fact that I remembered from the Race that everyone always ignored the starting hero... and here I just decided to somehow correct this situation (it seems I succeeded).

Sincerely, K0Lb@zzeR.

I decided to think about whether it's actually possible in 6 days???
The idea is as follows:
Day 1: we run
Day 2: capture the castle, put Dessa and Turis in boats!!! (crucial point Leadership+Tactics) {If it' same real (haven't checked), you can build a stable in the starting town, buy Dessa there, get defeated, and then buy her back in the confluence}
Day 3: arrive with Dessa and Turis, put Voy in a boat.
Day 4: Turis takes the Bonfire! This is the hardest part, 6 ravens after all have the first move! When I tried this, I had Grindan, so the ravens cut half my army and made it non-combat capable, but Turis having tactics can protect the snipers, and thanks to leadership can trigger morale for them. BUT! All these thoughts are only for pure SoD... I don't think it will be possible to realize this with the patch :(
Then Voy takes the ravens back, we pass them along the chain and open the gates to the AI (obviously completing the peasant quest in parallel, maybe on day 3 by the way). We enter the AI. In our army we have 79 centaurs, 4 crusaders + something taken from the ravens. In theory, it should be enough for stupid bots. As a result, on day 4 we take both infernos. And Dessa runs to the teleport to learn DD. We visit the blue tent, break out of this confluence, and head towards the blues (maybe put someone in a boat there, killing golems with Wizards and ballista)
Days 5-6: Get DD, and then it's unclear... it seems troops are needed to open the magic forest, vampires and nomads should join us, let's assume we take a dragon, but to manage to take the 2 mines that the nagas guard on day 6, you have to try hard... Plus everything, you need to take the psychs' external dwelling and the second bonfire... In short, I don't know :confused: Maybe Dessa simply won't have enough mp... :(

I didn't check this variant specifically because of the patch (It' same hard to kill ravens, AI, magic dragons)

A special thanks for participating and creating competition in the Tournaments.

And thank you for organizing it. It was enjoyable to play the map; I even felt like playing it a second time and trying to achieve 6 days.

It was fun, very fun – I won't argue with that.

And a separate thank you and respect for that.

That's why experience was chosen as the second criterion. You might ask, why not the first... Because there have been Tournaments based on experience, but not on mines... So, it was decided to choose these two criteria.
To be honest, the choice of the second criterion was also influenced by the fact that I remembered from the Race that everyone always ignored the starting hero... and here I just decided to somehow correct this situation (it seems I succeeded).

Now it's clear. Variety and historical fairness towards starting heroes. I have nothing against it; I'm even curious about what you'll come up with next time.

Initially, I was aiming for 6 days, but it didn't work out...

With a slightly different generation of the starting save, it would definitely have worked, but with this one, it's very possible that it won't.