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Posts from A program for determining luck/morality in Heroes 3!Auto-translated
ATTENTION! I have found a “bug” in the animation by vbn. The player can still gain luck and morale. Now it’s even easier to do than before. The fact is that the animation, apparently, is not completely reset! Try running the traffic light and viewing information about any unit (left mouse button). The number R changes!
Therefore, I suggest: 1) Disable this type of animation; 2) Enable movement animation.
Maybe I misunderstood something, but if we attach a single replay file for all battles, will everyone have the same battles with the same sequence of moves? Then any nonsense that results from additional replay editing will be easily exposed.
It might be true for battles. But who can guarantee that it won't affect other game processes? And after resetting another parameter, will the computer not crash on some monsters? I understand that this is unlikely. But in this case, it is better to be safe than sorry.
I've now reached this battle and spent an hour on it. I've come to the following conclusions!
cyberB;190323
Further. "Women shouted hurrah and threw their caps in the air." The question about the battle with the Titans remains. The battle can only be won theoretically. To win it according to the given scheme, it is absolutely necessary (i.e., failure to meet any (!) of these conditions leads to failure) that:
The highlighted phrase makes you think about someone's gameplay skills! cyberB;190323
On the first turn: 1. The top stack of Djinns did not cast spells, but attacked the Angels. 2. The Titans did not use morale. 3. The bottom stack, after killing the Angels, did not cast spells, but waited. 4. The Wizard cast Haste.
Where did this nonsense come from? Point 1 and 2 are more or less clear, but 3 and 4 clearly contradict each other! If the Wizard casts Haste, the sniper immediately shoots down the Djinns, and that's it! That's exactly what happened in the video!
Let's talk about the Wizard's spellcasting! I tested it both with and without Cranios. The results were, as expected, the same. If you think for a few seconds during the Angels' turn, the Wizard can perform various miracles: Stone Skin, Weakness, Slow, etc... but if you immediately press wait with 2 Angels, and immediately have one Angel fly to the Titan (who will immediately kill it), the Wizard will always cast Haste! I tested it 15 times in a row, and he always casts Haste! Therefore, we conclude that the Wizard's spells somehow depend on delays (and probably something else too!). So, I declare that point 4 is achievable! I am confident in this fact, and if necessary, I will record a video! cyberB;190323
On the third turn: 5. The Wizard cast Haste.
On the third turn, the existence of the Wizard is no longer critical! You just need to get 2 lucky shots for the snipers. Of course, if the Wizard casts something, it will only be a plus! cyberB;190323
Today, I didn't waste my time; I played this battle for 6 hours. On different versions of Heroes. I don't know how many hundreds of attempts there were. On the first turn, I managed to fulfill the first four conditions about twenty times in 6 hours of continuous attacks. This is achievable.
Tell me how you played like that and what you did for 6 hours??? 20 times in 20 attempts (if morale doesn't spoil it) cyberB;190323
After that, I managed to fulfill point 5 only 4 times. So, this event can be considered very difficult, but achievable.
Point 5, as I already said, is absolutely not critical! But the fact that the first events are difficult to achieve, I disagree!
cyberB;190323
Dirty_Player, you said that you could easily repeat this battle, even get lucky 6 out of 6 times, "only you feel sorry for the time." I'm calling you out - repeat it. Don't use a semaphore. Play for at least an hour, and you'll realize that it's impossible. I spent the whole evening on this today, and I only confirmed my rightness.
I didn't catch any luck, but it came to different stacks constantly, the sniper got it 3 times in a row (once on the Djinns, though), but no more! I'll say that getting 5 out of 6 is not a feasible task for me. I apologize for being too hasty! But theoretically, it is possible, of course.... I repeat that such luck is NOT NEEDED in this battle!!!! cyberB;190323
So, I can only repeat what I said earlier. vbn is a cheater.
We're tired of hearing that! Yes, he made a serious mistake, but he's not a cheater, and everyone is saying that now! YOU are trying too hard to smear him, and in doing so, you are only humiliating yourself and making a fool of yourself, and why, Fireball already said!
ATTENTION! I have found a "loophole" in the animation by vbn. The player can still gain luck and morale. Now it's even easier to do than before. The fact is that the animation, apparently, is not completely reset! Try running the traffic light and viewing information about any unit (left mouse button). The number R changes!
Therefore, I suggest: 1) Disable this type of animation; 2) Enable movement animation.
Here it is... just as I wrote. Until all the "loopholes" are found, can we really make this file an official, mandatory addition to the tournament version?
Exactly... this is what I was writing about. How can we make the file an official, mandatory addition to the tournament version before all the "bugs" are found?
I agree!!!
AlexSpl, is it actually possible to "fix this bug"? Have you figured out how the creature AI works?
Don't twist things. I only wrote to Catch about the ease and difficulty to show that we are not just trying to win the battle.
I'm not twisting things; you're suspiciously quick to forget your own statements.
Quote 1
You can win a battle with losses in different ways; it's simple. But winning with minimal losses – 4 centaurs, an angel, and a wizard – is not.
You yourself write about different ways and say that a battle with such losses cannot be won. If you wanted to say something else, be more specific. Otherwise, your statement is false.
Quote 2
I only played one battle, which, as a reminder, can only be won theoretically with this current army. I don't believe it.
Belief is a subjective concept. I already wrote that WITHOUT the "traffic light" (I repeat, its use in the tournament was not prohibited), I found a scenario where you can even take the conserve while preserving one horn, but it would require a lot of effort. To achieve losses like vbn's, it would only require one morale or luck for the next 3 turns of the snipers. Repeating such a scenario is quite difficult, as it already had 1 morale and 1 luck, but even with a simple timer (and the delay mechanism has been known for years), it is quite possible. But it wasn't necessary – luck did appear, and the necessary losses were achieved.
In this way, he gained not just an advantage in the game, but a decisive advantage.
Again, a false statement. Without changing the cranim, I was able to complete both battles with the same losses without much effort (by off standards). I have no doubt that if I could do it, vbn could too.
So, in the end, we have: vbn did not violate the rules in form (if you don't believe me, you can consult with lawyers), because cranim is not a program (by the way, the organizers should remove this loophole), i.e., he, as they say, did not violate the Letter of the law.
Furthermore, he unconsciously violated the Spirit of the law; this is undeniable, because there was a change in the mechanics, but he gained an advantage ONLY in time, which I personally witnessed. Not very much, but not critical. And for such a trifle, you dare to call him a cheater, and publicly at that???
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
Maybe you forgot or didn't know, but I'll remind you that at one time, in a tournament for the single-player game, Catch CONSCIOUSLY violated the Letter of the law by playing on a prohibited version (well, okay, I'm against formalism, I'm for the essence), and UNCONSCIOUSLY violated the Spirit of the law and GAINED a decisive advantage, because no one could reproduce the behavior of the AI. So, when the organizer suggested in a small, private circle that he was a cheater, there were immediately objections and inter-portal scandals, saying how dare they accuse such a person without DIRECT evidence of malicious intent. Personally, I did not call Catch a CHEATER, although many things in his behavior at the time did not appeal to me (but he is not a 100-dollar bill, so that everyone should like him), logically assuming that many players actually have the English version, although his transgression was definitely no less serious than vbn's.
In the end, they forgot about this unpleasant story.
But now you appear (and not only you) and clearly demonstrate double standards, accusing a person of cheating publicly.
Moderated: OFF-TOPIC in the message
in a similar situation
Moreover, you are pushing demonstrably false statements as if they were true. You have to search for truth and sound logic in your posts with a fine-tooth comb. And it's better to leave your emotions out of it.
That's right... as I wrote. Until all the "holes" are found, can it be made an official, mandatory addition to the tournament version?
That's absolutely true, and your additional concern as an organizer is quite understandable. But something tells me that the author knew what he was doing. And the experience of many people confirms this, although, of course, it would be better to clarify everything strictly so that there are no even conversations.
2Dirty Player: I tested it on goblins. I set all the values in the cranim file to zero, but the animation in the information window didn't disappear. I think it's extremely difficult, maybe even impossible, to influence this type of animation. It turns out that no click emulations are needed: open the information window, see the red light, close the information window, catch luck and morale. That's the problem.
Added 16 minutes later I'll also add my two cents to the discussion about cheating.
Initially, cranim.txt is embedded in the game's resource files and is not accessible to the player. But someone extracted it, modified it, and posted it on HP. And vbn modified the already modified file. So, those who downloaded the cranim file from the Portal also unknowingly made changes to the mechanics of morale and luck. Think about it!
vbn also consciously did not violate it, and the fact that this file (cranim.txt) only became known now is confirmation of that
vbn most likely has a single installation of Heroes 3 3.2 SoD at home for off/on
vbn personally discovered this ...
And there was no decisive advantage here ... (ДмитрийАС and Fireball)
P.S. So what about the online players? ... For example, I've been using cranim.txt since approximately 12.2007, although for the last month or two without it, as I changed my system and installed everything from scratch (without any automators)
1) I didn't express any doubts about vbn's fairness.
I personally have nothing against vbn. I was asked to help clarify the situation. Only after that did I start discussing this topic. There were no personal attacks in my posts. There were only reasonable requests for vbn to explain a particular situation.
I simply cannot demand that vbn's save be counted or not. This is entirely up to the moderator. He is the one who makes the decision.
I suggest replacing the ambiguous rule point: 6. It is forbidden: to use cheat programs or codes in a clean playthrough, as well as additional programs that can change the game's structure. with the following: It is forbidden: to use cheat programs or codes in a clean playthrough. It is also forbidden to modify the game's structure in any way (including save files).
Also, consider the possibility of using, along with cranim, a file that fixes the naga-bank bug (naga-bank should give gems instead of sulfur).
And I'm not blaming Catch for the previous incident; I'm blaming the Portal representatives for this one (I don't believe Banana had no idea). Because last time, they defended a certain attitude towards their players, but they don't even think about showing the same attitude towards the local players. My analysis shows that Catch's violation was slightly more serious than vbn's, and Catch's analysis says it was slightly less serious. Apparently, the truth lies somewhere in between. Catch probably understands this himself. But instead of support, there's only silent and not very enthusiastic agreement with the accusations. That's why I'm talking about double standards; or, in your opinion, is it enough that Catch didn't directly call vbn a cheater in support of Banana? If so, then we have different concepts of fairness.
Firstly, Banana has had nothing to do with the Portal team for two and a half years. Secondly, I don't understand anything; if I didn't call vbn a cheater, is that bad??? Or did you mean something else? Thirdly, there were some strange inconsistencies in vbn's saves, and I just asked him to explain them. It turned out that there was a violation of the rules. Why then did you and others attack me??? I repeat, I didn't participate in the tournament, and I only glanced at the posts about cheating. Only after being asked to help figure it out did I carefully examine everything. Both the saves and the video. Therefore, I have no interest in whether vbn's save is counted or not. And about the community... I'm upset that in Heroes 2, we're trying to organize joint tournaments so that all Heroes players can get to know each other and become friends. There are fewer of us every year. And others keep talking about the community, advocating only for local interests.
Guys, I suggest we close the discussion about cheating. It's clear that no one wants to be the first to stop. But it needs to be done. That's it! No more cheating!!! Determining the result is the responsibility of the host and only the host. There's no need to campaign for or against accepting a save file. The host can think for himself. At least read the title of the thread!!!
The issue regarding my violation of the rules for offline tournaments on heroesworld.ru (the prohibition of using cheating programs, codes, and additional programs that can alter the game's structure) has already been resolved. Everything has fallen into place. I reiterate that I refuse to have my save game counted (and how could it be otherwise, given that I fully admit to the violation). I don't want, and I won't allow, anyone to have even the slightest reason to believe that tournament participants who violate the rules, intentionally or unintentionally, could not only go unpunished but also be rewarded for it.
Therefore, there should be no further complaints from the tournament participants. So, I think this topic is closed.
Whether I am a cheater or not, whether I violated the rules consciously or unintentionally, is up to each person to decide. I have done my best to explain, and the rest is a matter of trust and personal feelings. If anyone is concerned or unconvinced, please write to me in a private message, and we can discuss it, or contact the appropriate authority with a request to review my candidacy for the title of cheater and apply the corresponding sanctions to my user profile.
From now on, we will only discuss the topic of "Program for Determining Luck/Morale in Heroes 3!" and everything related to it (Cranim.txt, etc.)
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
I’ll allow myself one last off-topic comment! This decision wasn't easy for me, but since I am the organizer, I must not only encourage but also punish! Therefore, vbn's save game will not be counted, and the results are presented here!
I tested it on goblins. I set all the values in the creature's stats to zero, but the animation in the information window didn't disappear. I think it's extremely difficult, maybe even impossible, to influence this type of animation. It turns out that no click emulations are needed: open the information window, see the red light, close the information window, catch luck and morale. That's the problem.
2 AlexSpl Direct question: is there a chance that we can remove the animation in the window or nullify its effect? Or should we think about what restrictions to introduce in tournaments?
AlexSpl
