Posts from Переход на Equilibris

No, that's not quite right. There's a version that's accepted as the standard for playing in any inter-portal or world competitions. You can try playing as an alternative and play on Whirlwinds (or even TGS), or you can accept the generally accepted scheme.

A standard? Perhaps for online play? Honestly, I doubt that all foreign websites hold official tournaments on Equilibrated maps.

On Expert difficulty and higher, AI heroes always have Immortality cast on them. Just one. There can be no room for misinterpretation or misunderstanding here. Or is this about realism? :D

The official information from the developer has already been accurately quoted by Lu:
"At higher difficulty levels, AI heroes drink a potion of immortality before battle."
So, what about the possibility of misinterpretation?
It's not worth selling bugs as features. People will buy it and accept it, of course, but...

At least the summoning and necromancy menus.

No, it doesn't work for offline mode. It would be good to have the ability to summon into an empty stack, rather than on top of already upgraded/buffed units. But there isn't.

The thing is, people often play both online and offline. It's impossible to do this on two different versions – it creates confusion.

Yeah, there's that. And even though I only play offline, it's still annoying.

No. That's wrong. The program doesn't send anything anywhere, so you can't label it as SpyWare, no matter how hard you try.

Independently sending some kind of information is not a mandatory item in the definition of a Trojan. "This fool will send it himself" is a bad position.
The program works in favor of a subject who is not a necessary participant in the use of the program. At the same time, it gives this "third party" opportunities that are not available to the average user. And these opportunities involve providing information about the aforementioned average user.
If you object, saying, "it doesn't format the drive," I'll agree. Let's be happy together :)

The first thing that catches the eye is the scale. I've never heard of such competitions, let alone seen them. There's nothing more massive ;)

Well, apparently, you're not interested in this form of life :) Participants of, say, "LADA Revolution" would be very surprised by the phrase "the whole planet is playing Equilibris." So what?

It's incredibly interesting. When will judges ride on some other version of the game than ordinary mortals in some tournament?

They do. The version is the same, but the possibilities are different... Of course, "these possibilities are not needed by anyone," but usually players are used to deciding for themselves what they need and what they don't.

To run a tournament on a demonstrably worse software just to attract those who simply feel like galloping on a horse? A worthy undertaking, very promising.

If we're talking about the offline version, it's unclear where and by whom the "demonstrable inferiority" has been established? The list of improvements is known, and there are very few of them. But the list of added bugs is open and has a tendency to grow.

People are not ready to replace stale bread from the store with homemade bread, because "what if guests come, and they will only eat store-bought bread."

For homemade bread, the fact that someone spat on your slice when cutting it is a very big drawback. The message "it tastes better" is heard, but it doesn't increase the appetite. The message that "we will spit more deliciously on your next slice" is also heard.

There is a version that is accepted as a standard for playing in any interportal or world competitions.

I should have made fun of

Only FOR!!! ...
...So, when the whole planet plays Equilibris...

earlier. Now, it seems that the methods of air vendors are no longer considered impolite in this discussion?
*I'm not saying that promoting Equilibris = selling air. I just don't like the methods. Especially when they lead quite adequate people astray.
No offense, with respect, and so on :)

I've read your posts, and it seems like there are some unclear conspiracies involving the organizers and powerful players, and also some perceived oppression of poor newcomers. As a newcomer myself, I haven't delved too deeply into the intricacies of Whirlwinds, and I'm not really trying to understand the nuances of Equilibria either; I just play for fun. I used to be against the mod, but I tried it, and I liked it. Furthermore, I think the improved AI will be a good addition to the offline game, but since some players are against it... As a compromise, we could hold a trial tournament using the mod, without completely abandoning version 3.0 in the future.

The argument has gone completely off-topic. We could polemicize like this for a long time.
Actually, a lot has been said; let the leaders decide what is best for HeroesWorld.

P.S. I forgot one important point: WoW is a finished product with no chance of getting a sequel. Equi is still being developed.

Dear organizers, perhaps it would be worth adhering to the principles of fairness and transparency and adding sections about improvements and fixes in the mod, as well as sections about deteriorations and new bugs. I think Under would agree to provide a complete list of "innovations" that he is aware of. Otherwise, our esteemed guests from the Dungeon are very skilled in verbal EQUILIBRISM and smoothly bypass this point.

So, esteemed fans of Heroes IV and just those who love a good argument.

I certainly expected this topic to spark heated debates... had your say?... But I never expected the conservatism, stubbornness, and unwillingness to even try to be so strong... It feels like we aren't talking about switching to a new (which, by the way, isn't all that new... it's long been established in tournaments not only in Russia but also abroad) version, but about something more global...
The fact that you don't even want to see the pros of Equi... well, fine... I can't make you see... You don't want to try?... fine then... that's your problem... I understand the main issue is that Equilibris is an unofficial add-on... That's why you're all waving your hands and digging in your heels... But alas, comrades, as I've said before and you yourselves know perfectly well: 3DO collapsed without finishing the game, and there WILL BE no new add-ons! Instead, a group of developers took it upon themselves out of pure altruism and enthusiasm... And they did it, and continue to do it... however, as I see, not everyone is interested... And what can we say about supporting domestic developers...
We'd rather dig in our heels and play the old, buggy version... than a new and improved one, just because it's an unofficial version...
I'm sure if Equi were official, there would be no arguments now... But as it is...
Now, regarding continuity with other portals... League has been playing on Equi for a long time (and rightly so), Portal is still playing on Storms and hasn't even thought about switching to Equi... We're stuck somewhere in the middle, having only held a couple of tournaments on Equi, but we did hold them... And note, people played in them...
So... I want to emphasize Equilibris not because League already plays on it... But because I believe it's time to move to something newer and higher quality. This is my personal opinion, and seeing that the majority of players from HeroesWorld play on Equi, I decided it's probably time...

Dear Sir Catch is naturally against such a transition, because it's not easy to play on 2 versions (I remind you that Portal plays on Storms). It's inconvenient for him, and he apparently doesn't want to bother understanding the changes in Equilibris either... But at the same time, I want to note that the 4th Van Caneghem tournament was held on Storms, the map was interesting, as participants noted, but at the same time only 7 people gathered, and among them I didn't see you, dear Sir Catch... Why is that? And on Portal this year, you played in what seems like only 2 tournaments (I might be wrong), despite their large number and variety... I just want to understand, what then drives your negative opinion about the transition if you aren't an active tournament participant? Maybe just a desire to argue? I hope I'm wrong, and you are indeed concerned about the tournaments...
Dear Undergrounder really dislikes TE... namely, that very program... But this program was made for organizers, why should it be for public use? There are things that should only be available to those organizing the tournament... Or should we just post saves here for everyone to see?... Let everyone look... but at least in equal conditions...
And why are organizers in some better condition? Because they see the map in advance? Can they make a save tailored to themselves? But there are 2 important points: it's a matter of trust in the organizers; if you can even entertain such a thought, it means you don't trust the organizer... what else is there to talk about? And second: do the organizers themselves have time to participate in their own tournament? More often than not, sadly, they don't... And also: on our portal, rules for organizer participation are accepted: they submit their saves as early as possible, before the start of accepting participant saves, and they submit them to a disinterested but respected person, in whose competence and impartiality no one doubts... For your information, there is a topic in the closed moderator section for organizers' saves (so at any time, any administrator can take a save from there and check it if any questions arise).

Now, regarding some unimaginable problems with installing Equi... That people will have to download something and read... if a person is interested, I don't think it will be a problem for them, just as it wasn't a problem once upon a time to go and buy a disc with Heroes 4 because they wanted to play... And Equi doesn't weigh that much to make a fuss about... People download patches for Heroes 5, don't they? And nothing... they don't complain... As they say, where there's a will...

Now, regarding Equi's global popularity... There were some doubts here...
So, right now the World Championship for Heroes 4 is still ongoing online, and it's being played on Equi. Just so you know: 2 foreign forums are participating in the World Championship, and note, people there are already playing on Equi.

LES MATCHS DOIVENT ETRE JOUES EN VERSION EQUILIBRIS 3.51 .

This is a quote from the rules of the French site Archangel Castle. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, their offline events are also held on Equilibris.
On the Polish General`s Guild, they also, surprisingly, play on
Equilibris.

Is Equilibris little known to newcomers or completely unknown? Yes, possibly... But what's stopping us from making it more known? All it takes is dedicating a few topics to describing what Equilibris is and discussing it, and providing a link to Celestial Heavens for a more thorough study of the add-on... Which I will do shortly.

In short, you've upset me, which is why my post is perhaps overly angry. So please don't be offended if you didn't like my remarks, but I got no positive emotions from your exchange of posts. I understood one thing: some are for switching to Equi, others are categorically against and don't even try to understand the arguments of the former...
And of course, in the heat of the arguments, no one even noticed my comment that if someone wants to organize a tournament on Storms, I will support it. I'm not saying a categorical "no" to tournaments on Storms; I only want Equilibris to be the main version for tournaments on Heroes World... But naturally, everyone only listens to themselves and sees only what they want to see...
Alright, we've had our fun, and that's enough. I see no point in further arguments...
And so, having expressed my vision of the situation and my grievances, I'll move on to the main point. Namely, I have only one option left to make the tournament situation satisfactory for everyone. I'm presenting it now.

For online tournaments, the following scheme will be introduced:

The main and primary version for all online tournaments will be Equilibris 3.51. However, the rules will include a clause stating the following: if opponents in a game mutually agree to play their match on the HoMM IV "Winds of War" version, they may do so, provided that any complaints from either side regarding that game will not be considered by the judges. In the event that one opponent expresses a desire to play on "Winds of War" and the other is against it, the game will be played on the main version, which is Equilibris! In other words, having decided to play on Storms, participants must remember that they are playing at their own risk!

For offline tournaments, the following scheme will be introduced:

Tournaments will alternate between versions. That is, if one tournament was held on the Equilibris version, the next tournament will be held on "Winds of War". The duration of the tournament is no more than 3 weeks, with one week for checking saves and posting results. Thus, a month for each tournament! I see no point in holding tournaments on different versions in parallel, especially if the victory conditions are the same.

And for Stage 9 of the Van Caneghem tournament, for a change, we will play on Equilibris!

I hope these conditions will satisfy everyone.

Thank you for your attention!

Respectfully, Luchik!

I like Equilibris. I don't play Heroes very often these days, and especially not Heroes 4, but Equilibris is more convenient. The Vortex disc I have is buggy and constantly asks for an activation code, while Equilibris runs without any problems. It's very small in size (I was afraid to download it, but then I realized there wasn't much to download), and the game becomes not so much more difficult as it does more interesting (I even started using the Summon spell... :)), and it's easy to install. I don't know about online play, I haven't tried it, but offline it's definitely better, in my opinion. Although I'm not forcing anyone to switch from Vortex to Equilibris, I just wanted to share my opinion as a fan.

Probably one of my last comments here. 2Lu41k

If they decide to play their match on the "Whirlwinds of War" version of HoMM IV, they can do so with the condition that any complaints from either side regarding this game will not be considered by the judges...(...)... That is, by deciding to play on Whirlwinds, participants must remember that they are playing at their own risk!

What kind of discrimination is this? We play on Equilibris without any problems, but if we play on Whirlwinds, then maybe we can even use cheats, and the opponent still won't be able to prove anything, is that what you mean?:smile07: Well, Whirlwinds isn't ideal, and there are many bugs, but to put the game down like that... Couldn't the judges check the match on Whirlwinds if necessary, since this version can work even with Equilibris?!

We'd rather stick with the old, buggy version and play it... than switch to the new and improved one, just because it's an unofficial version...
I'm sure that if Equilibris were official, there wouldn't be any arguments right now... But as it is...

I understand that Equilibris also has its share of bugs, and if there's no difference, why pay more? (c)

So... I want to emphasize Equilibris not because the League is already playing it...

For some reason, I think that's the main reason. Especially considering that the most ardent supporters of the switch are members of one Clan, while the rest are against it. I don't want to say anything, but this situation makes me think.

The esteemed Sir Catch is naturally against such a switch, because it's not easy to play on two versions (as a reminder, the Portal plays on Warlords). It's not beneficial for him, and he probably doesn't want to bother with the changes in Equilibris...

I play Heroes 4 only for fun, I don't expect Tournaments, if there is a Tournament and I'm in the mood, I play. If not, then I don't, and I don't worry about it.

But at the same time, I want to note that Heroes 4 on Warlords was played, the map, as the participants noted, was interesting, but at the same time, only 7 people participated, and I didn't see you, esteemed Sir Catch, among them...

I'm glad that I received such attention from you. Should I give you a detailed report of what I did, who I met during the Tournament? What prevented me from playing?

What's up with that? And on the Portal this year, you seem to have played in only 2 Tournaments (I might be wrong), despite their large number and variety...

I'm curious, where are my obligations to play in 50 Tournaments a year written? Am I violating something?

I just want to understand what drives your negative opinion about the switch, if you are not an active participant in Tournaments? Maybe it's just a desire to argue? I hope I'm wrong, and that you really care about the Tournaments...

And I also want to understand what drives you and your League clanmates, if they are also very rare guests in your Tournaments? A desire to promote "your" addon? I also hope that I'm wrong, that you only care about Heroes 4 Tournaments. But this statement of yours:

And for a change, let's play the 9th stage of the Van Kanegem Tournament on Equilibrise!

says the opposite.
Note that I didn't say that Equilibris is bad. I said that all Tournaments, and especially such all-forum ones as Heroes 4, should not be held on a non-common version. And even though you say:

I realized one thing: some are in favor of switching to Equilibris, others are categorically against it and don't even try to understand the arguments of the former...

you yourself don't even try to understand the arguments of the "others". You play one version of Heroes 4. But there are universal players who play all versions. Do you think it's easy to constantly keep all the features of each version in mind and not confuse them? And now there's also an obligation to use Equilibris...

Is Equilibris little known to newcomers, or unknown at all? Maybe... But what prevents us from making it more well-known? All it takes is to dedicate a few threads to describing what Equilibris is and discussing it, and provide a link to Celestial Heavens for a more thorough study of the addon... Which I will do in the near future.

Do it, hold introductory Tournaments, maybe I'll play in one of them. But until then, as long as threads like this one cause such a negative reaction, and not from newcomers, but from such authoritative people as Undergrounder, Fireball, ZYbr and others, it is clearly premature to switch all Tournaments (and especially Heroes 4) to Equilibris.

That's all. Because I'm apparently a "lover of arguing". Well, I'm used to the fact that people don't want to listen to someone who just wants to do good for them and call them by different names. Therefore, this is most likely my last post in this thread.

I apologize if I expressed myself too harshly anywhere. And I treat Lu41k and her clanmates with great respect. It's a pity that we didn't understand each other here.

A few words from the sidelines. 1. Tournament organizers and judges often don't have the opportunity to play themselves. Because first, you choose the map, create the rules, and generate the save file. Then, you start encouraging the players. Then, questions start coming in privately or as open questions on the forum. Sometimes, you have to moderate immediately because some questions reveal the walkthrough. Then, the save files start arriving, and they need to be checked!!! Sometimes, people break the rules unintentionally... But after the tournament ends, there are often complaints like "how long will this take, where are the results, etc.," but at least the save files need to be checked initially. Therefore, at the end of the tournament, the judge is already checking the save files... 2. In the second game, which is what I represent, it's a completely normal situation: there are two versions of the game. They are connected in a single menu, and only when loading a save file/map does it offer to go to either the updated saves/maps or the old ones. And they are all in the same folder, although the extensions are different. And no one is shouting, "I don't want to play the old map, it doesn't have stables," or "remove the new one, it allows you to recruit annoying elementals, and the necromancer is unbalanced because he can raise 10% more skeletons." Everyone plays, everyone knows the difference between the versions, and I don't remember any problems. 3. The ban on bugs and other exploits. When the "ballista kill" exploit appeared, I left the third game and never came back. In the second game, there are a few nuances, like extracting any artifact from the graveyard. So what? They added a ban to the rules, and good judges also try to remove graveyards and other similar objects from the map. In general, if Equilibris removes a bug with a closed hiding spot, maybe we should play on it. This is just my opinion. P.S. Friends, it's not easy for judges and tournament organizers. Let's be more understanding and kind...

We're back to arguing again...

So, let's get this straight.

I didn't say anything about cheats! In any tournament, there is one very important rule: the use of cheats is prohibited! And although it is quite difficult to do online, last year we already had this unpleasant incident. So everything is possible... unfortunately. Therefore: using cheats is prohibited, and this point will be considered regardless of the game version you decide to play on; all other misunderstandings that may arise during or after the game are your responsibility.
Discrimination? Not at all. I am sure that the vast majority of online players will play on Equilibrium, so I am setting it as the main version. If you want to play on Warlords, go ahead if your opponent agrees. As for judging... :) I don't think there will be any problems with the game; so far, not a single complaint has been received. But still, you yourself chose an alternative version, so the responsibility lies with you.
The tournament should still take place on one version. By the way, I also received criticism for the Summer Tournament, which took place on 2 versions, saying that it was wrong and that one version should be chosen.

By the way, I can't understand one thing: if the result doesn't matter, if the game is purely for fun, then does it really matter what version you play?

Here is some statistics for online tournaments:
namely, a list of players who play on Heroes V and the version they prefer:

Arandor - Equilibrium;
Drakkoska - Equilibrium;
L@R$$ON - Equilibrium;
Pandora - I won't say for sure, but most likely also Equi;
LeSHiJ-MaX - unfortunately disappeared somewhere, but he also prefers Equilibrium;
Brackman - similarly;
Dragjen - Equilibrium;
STRANNiK - Equilibrium;
ZYbr - both Equi and Warlords (although I don't think you will deny that it is better to play on Equi? :));
LordZezuk - Equilibrium;
oxygen_hl - Equilibrium;
shnurov_hl - Equilibrium;
and finally me - Equilibrium.

If I made any mistakes, please correct me.
I don't think there is any need to count in order to see the overwhelming majority. Again, returning to the World Championship for 4 Heroes, 4 players from our portal took part: Dragjen, L@R$$ON, BigAke, and Oggy, who had not previously participated in online tournaments for 4 Heroes, but nevertheless were not afraid of the new version for them, Equilibrium, and played all their games perfectly on it.
Here I read that newcomers will be scared and leave? However, all four of the above are newcomers, and they not only weren't scared but also played... and now 3 of them definitely continue to play and play on Equilibrium! (Unfortunately, I don't know about BigAke's fate). Isn't this the best proof?
And by the way, BigAke used to play pure off-line and is an active participant in ВК [VK], which means that he was not intimidated by the fact that the tournament is being played on Equi.

Therefore, we draw conclusions: those who want to install, read, and play! And those who do not want to prefer to stand still..

Note that I am not making unsubstantiated statements. I rely on facts and statistics.

I am the organizer, and I hold tournaments not for myself, but for people who want to play on HeroesWorld. If the overwhelming majority of participants prefer Equilibrium, then why hold tournaments on Warlords? Moreover, as I already said, it is better and more interesting to play on Equilibrium (this is what I say as a participant), and besides, it is difficult to combine playing on these 2 versions, and most of those who switched to Equilibrium no longer want to return to Warlords. Again, this is not an unfounded statement.
That is why I want to make tournaments specifically on Equi. And again, for the third time, if someone wants to organize their own tournament on Warlords, I will help. I'm not going to exclude tournaments on Warlords, but I just say that in my tournaments, I give preference to Equilibrium!

Well, that's about online...

Offline is more complicated, and there are unfortunately many more opponents of Equi. Therefore, I chose what I think is the best compromise: alternating tournaments.

However, you still don't like this somehow. At least that's how I understood it. Or am I wrong? Then refute my opinion!

By the way, about universal players, which were mentioned. Returning to 4 ВК [VK]... I didn't notice any particular activity from our universal players on it, except for Romanuel, Fireball (who, unfortunately, could not complete his participation in this tournament), SteN (he had technical difficulties), and Psixxx (who generally preferred to remain silent, but who can actually play perfectly on Equilibrium). ValgallaWolf wanted to participate for the sake of a quorum, but apparently he couldn't gather enough strength. Of all of them, only Romanuel, Fireball, and Psixxx are really universal players playing different versions. Of these, Psixxx can easily play on Equilibrium. SteN and ValgallaWolf are as universal as I am. They just prefer Heroes V and dropped into 4 ВК [VK], I prefer 4, but I can also easily run 5 for the sake of a quorum. This is because most of our universal players are not interested in 4 at all. Whether Warlords or Equi. But still, for the sake of this minority, namely for the sake of 2 universal players, Romanuel and Fireball, I agree that perhaps it was premature to decide so categorically to hold 9 ВК [VK] on Equilibrium.
So, I won't say yet that 9 ВК [VK] will take place specifically on Equi.
Let this question be open... for now..
But at the same time, I hope that these two will appreciate Equilibrium properly and based on their own experience, rather than on someone else's words.

And finally, about the words that I act not for the benefit of tournaments on HW, but under the influence of my clan members:
Last year, the issue of holding the Summer online tournament for 4 Heroes was being decided. Namely, there were the most disputes about which version the tournament would be held on. So, if you read this topic, you can see my opinion on this matter, as well as, by the way, the opinion of one of the participants in the "transition debate," ZYbr (I am surprised that his opinion has suddenly changed, especially after this post).

In my opinion, it is clear that even then I preferred Equilibrium. By the way, I wasn't a member of any clan and didn't know about HeroesLeague (sorry, League players), nor did I know about other portals either. So saying that I am trying to promote Equi together with my clan members is not entirely correct.
I just don't understand why, if there is something better, we should stubbornly move back to (I cannot say worse)... Warlords instead of moving forward? Moreover, Warlords are stagnant, while Equilibrium is developing..

I am not for anyone's addon; I am for a more high-quality and interesting game, which can be achieved with Equilibrium!

If someone has different thoughts... well, it's a pity that my actions are perceived exactly like this. I didn't expect it..
It turns out as always: you want what's best, but it ends up being as always..
Although maybe it's time to get used to it..

And it's all the more strange to hear words that I don't even try to understand the arguments of other people. If that were really the case, I wouldn't rack my brains over an option that would suit everyone..

However, everyone can think whatever they want - thank God, it's not forbidden! I remain true to my opinion, and if my actions are perceived in some way ambiguously, then it's very unfortunate..

I don't want to force anyone to do anything. I agree that perhaps my statements about switching to Equi sounded too harsh. I apologize for that!

Well, I have outlined a scheme for holding tournaments; I hope it will satisfy everyone and help them understand and accept Equilibrium on their own, of course, provided that they actually want to do so.... Let there be tournaments both on Warlords and on Equilibrium on HW, and after some time we will see what forum users prefer and make (or not make) appropriate adjustments!

Best regards, Luchik!

By the way, about universal units.
I only know of one true universal unit.
CragHack (Ghasteater). If that name means anything to you.

2Lu41k

In addition to the database (it wouldn't all fit).

1) Dwelling on the past is generally not a good idea. But since you brought up that example, it's actually quite relevant:
that's how it was back then, and a lot of time has passed, I've played quite a bit, and I can now evaluate things and draw on my experience.
And that's why I've completely changed my point of view.

Based on the arguments you provided, the following tournaments should be called Open Championships of the Phoenix Order, because ONLY this clan is fully FOR Equi. But since you've already decided everything for everyone, the topic is no longer needed, just as it apparently wasn't needed before. Therefore, by my decision and Pandora's decision, I'm closing the topic.