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Posts from Dialogues with Moderators Auto-translated

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In reply to Alex_R
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#33
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Alex_R;165354
What annoys me is the fact that they operate here in the same way politicians do in real life... wordplay, contradictory facts... bad management.
What I especially don't understand are the opinions: a) "coordinators are the only ones who have access to all topics — that means they should clean them up" :confused:
b) if someone is to blame, then it's Adelaide ???
I get the impression — that your confrontation with her (Adelaide) is the only reason Luchik and you developed this issue... but who's interested in that?... and lumping together that Adelaide is incompetent or not doing her job is simply ungraceful IMHO.
Now to the point:
1. The problem of spam has always existed... recently it has worsened, (it's not for nothing that Drako created a topic about choosing moderators).
Adelaide took the position of coordinator already in the thick of this problem, and how do you think she could have influenced it, if 2 or 3 coordinators before her couldn't handle it?
2. Our situation with tournaments on the forum has noticeably improved now, primarily due to the variety and coverage of new "branches" — but according to your logic, whose merit is that? — it's also Adelaide's, right :) ... and actually that's partly true... she boosted activity in areas like Heroes 3 online and Heroes 5 online... but what about other parts? there are plenty of improvements there too — but those are the merits of other forum members...
P.S. I'll stick with my opinion that tournaments are more important than writing, and that this problem with spam etc. is a temporary fact that doesn't really hinder forum members like me from enjoying the forum.
And regarding the "sarcastic remarks" about my assessment of moderation — I didn't understand... so what if only vbn in the statistics does an excellent job? — in reality it's not just statistics that matter... or that same VDV_forever (who has no complaints) — does he work much harder than Adelaide, or maybe Hacker?
And why are there no complaints about VDV? ... because you, like me, see his efforts and most importantly the results (tournaments, guidebook, etc.), while Adelaide's efforts and results are not visible? or do you not want to see them?

I agree, tournaments are also important, and more important than words, but words are probably the "calling card" of HeroesWorld, correct me if that's wrong.
Regarding Adelaide, I agree in principle, but it seems besides Luchik and Alan, no one specifically blamed her. Many wrote in general terms.
Besides, VDV also had complaints, for example about the ban on Catch...
but these are all details;)
In reply to Zybr
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#34
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ZYbr;165350
I’ll add my two cents to the “discussion”…
(I didn’t want to emphasize it before, but now I will definitely say it)
Your two cents were the root cause of this dispute, IMHO.
ZYbr;165350
If you really don’t want to moderate, then please, review the submitted candidates, and give them support; this way, you’ll save your time and kill two birds with one stone, or is this also not within your competence, or maybe there isn’t enough time for it…
As far as I understand the situation, the topic about selecting new moderators was created for the “Admin,” and the candidates were chosen by the forum members, not appointed by the coordinator… therefore, the complaints are inappropriate, especially since the comparison is with a situation that is completely different from this one.
ZYbr;165350
A beautiful phrase, it’s almost painful to look at. Maybe, for the prosperity of the portal, it’s worth listening to the opinions of its users?
An ugly phrase – it’s no less painful to look at (-1) – you get a point for populism.
ZYbr;165350
An example is needed, please.
Let’s find the old topic about selecting moderators.
What were its results? Not impressive, right?
The administration looked, looked, said that the candidates were considered, and then silence… it’s unclear whether they were approved or not, or if there are just some delays… only guesses remain….
Missing the point… let’s look at the date of the “old topic about selecting moderators” and the date when Adelaide and the other coordinators took office – they definitely know about the old topic.
In reply to Alex_R
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#35
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Okay, I’ll repeat myself: the phrases you cited don’t apply solely to Adelaide (with the exception of the one about “beauty”).
Your 5 cents were the root cause of this argument, IMHO.
I’m saying this because I didn’t provide a detailed response, as is customary here, with phrases highlighted, etc.
As far as I understand the situation, the topic about selecting new moderators was created for the “Admin,” and candidates were chosen by the forum members, not appointed by the coordinator… therefore, the complaints are inappropriate, especially since the comparison is with a situation that is completely different from this one.

And again, I’m talking about something else. I’m saying that if Adelaide can provide this kind of “support,” wouldn’t it be easier for her (or another coordinator, I reiterate that I have nothing against Adelaide specifically; I’m just responding to her because she wrote that phrase) to spend time studying the candidates (especially since half the work is already done, as many forum members have already expressed their opinions), and then, as soon as new moderators appear and there is less spam, it will be a big plus for the coordinators. That’s what I think is important.
Missing the point… look at the date of the “old topic about moderator elections” and the date Adelaide and the other coordinators took office; they are definitely aware of the old topic.

The persistence is astonishing. Make an effort and read my previous post. There is no criticism of Adelaide. At least, not from my side. I don’t want to resort to personal attacks. It doesn’t make anyone look good
In reply to Zybr
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#36
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An interesting conflict has arisen; to be honest, I didn't expect this from Adelaide...
When she was appointed, she was very kind and wanted everyone to be happy, but it seems things have changed now.

A few rules about coordinators:
Most of them are not explicitly stated.
1. Resolve all conflicts that arise with users, and do so peacefully, so that no one feels offended.
Usually, people contact you via ICQ or PM for these issues...
(at least, that's how people contacted me very often).

2. It's also not a good idea to ignore spam on the forum, and I disagree with Adelaide on this point. No one will force you to actively search for it, but when you read the forum, and you see a spam message, even if it's just a fleeting glance, you shouldn't ignore it.

3. Psychological stability.
This is something I lacked at the beginning, but since I was a pioneer, I didn't know about it. By psychological stability, I mean not succumbing to provocation. Otherwise, arguments start, like now.


Now, let's get back to our conflict. From my experience, I know that when you start actively cleaning up a thread from spam, there will always be a user who is unhappy about it and will create a thread accusing moderators and coordinators of deleting their "useful" message. But that's not always the case.
It's just that sometimes you don't want to argue, so you make some concessions.

Adelaide's reaction is understandable; you started expressing your complaints, and she defended herself. But that's what anyone would do.

Now, regarding the spam. As I understand it, the moderators and coordinators are being blamed for the spam on the forum. But please, it's not us who writes it in the threads. Of course, it will be deleted, but since the forum is large, it's not always possible to track down spam quickly. Draw your own conclusions.
Not everyone has a lot of free time to browse the entire forum... 400 messages a day is a lot.
С уважением, Vlad

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In reply to Zybr
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#37
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ZYbr;165350
Frankly, I'm very disappointed by the fact that the World Championship doesn't have a schedule of matches. You can see the result yourself. With a schedule, weaker players could have been eliminated much earlier.
Oops. And it seems my comment is also relevant here. To avoid going off-topic, I invite the author of the quote to join the discussion about the World Championship. There, I will gladly explain why the schedule is bad, what the reasons were for organizing it in this way, what its advantages and disadvantages are, and so on. But first, I recommend thinking about the idea of "an Australian versus a Latvian or a Brazilian versus a Russian, according to a schedule." I think this might partially answer some questions. By the way, the topic is called "dialogue with...". It's surprising that some complaints are accumulating but not being expressed. That is, there is no dialogue from the beginning.

P.S. I apologize for the off-topic comment.
Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.

© О. Хайям

In reply to oxygen_hl
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#38
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oxygen_hl;165560
Yes, by the way, the topic is called “dialogue with...”. It’s surprising that some grievances accumulate but aren’t expressed. That is, there’s no dialogue from the start.
That’s true, but in general, it’s better to hide such negativity rather than display it for everyone to see, showing weakness and disorganization. As a moderator, I’m ashamed of the behavior of forum participants who started a pointless debate in the topic, without reaching any conclusion. Even though truth is often born in conflict, we have something else here, which is sad, but nothing can be changed....
In reply to Magnus
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#39
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The main desire can be changed. I still don't understand why the conflict arose; was it a personal conflict between Adelaide and Alan? It has already been resolved, but why make such a big deal out of it on the forum? Guys, let's respect each other.
С уважением, Vlad

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In reply to Magnus
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#40
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Magnus;165614
Yes, that's true, but in general, it's better to hide such negativity rather than display it for everyone to see, showing weakness and disorganization. As a moderator, I am ashamed of the behavior of forum participants who started a pointless debate in the thread, without reaching any conclusion. Even if truth is born in conflict, we have something different here, which is sad, unfortunately, but nothing can be changed...
Magnus, I'm not talking about the argument that was on the previous pages. I'm just talking about the complaint that concerned only the Championship. As for the public lynching, I completely agree, but I'm not aware of the background, and I don't really understand the moderator issues on HW. Therefore, I won't comment on it.
Я в мечеть не за праведным словом пришёл.
Не стремясь приобщиться к основам пришёл.
В прошлый раз утащил я молитвенный коврик,
Он истерся до дыр, - я за новым пришёл.

© О. Хайям

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#41
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Hmm. I believe that everyone should do what they enjoy (if possible): if you like running Tournaments, then run them; if you like being a moderator, then be a moderator; if you can combine moderating with running Tournaments, then combine them. But to do something, you need to meet certain criteria (like in a profession). I don't know what criteria you need to meet to run Tournaments, but to be a moderator, you need to possess (this is my opinion, and I've said it before, but I'll repeat it) the following qualities: intelligence (who needs fools?), the ability to articulate thoughts clearly (what's the point of a genius who can't share their brilliant ideas?), being somewhat (or very) of a psychologist (to know when to apply the "carrot" – primarily!! – and when to use the "stick"), not being vindictive, being able to admit when you're wrong, and having authority (if a person possesses the qualities listed above, they are likely to have authority). I'll focus separately on authority. Authority is needed so that the moderator's actions are not questioned. This is not the kind of authority that people who run or win Tournaments (or other Tournaments) have; it should be the authority of a person who understands people and can persuade...
Are there many such moderators on the forum? I don't know. But it seems to me that if it's difficult to combine running Tournaments with moderating the site, then you should give up either one or the other. And in general, it seems to me that many (or few) people went into moderation (and continue to go) for some kind of power. Of course, few will confirm this; they will most likely say something like, "I wanted to help the forum fight against spam, rudeness, NATO expansion to the East, the deployment of missile defense systems in Poland, etc.," but is that the truth or not?
P.S. This is just my opinion. Many may disagree. Maybe someone will want to add to what I said – please do. But I believe this is how it should be.
P.S. Strangely enough, much of what I said is in the "Charter (or whatever it's called?) for Moderators (Coordinators)."
ДУРАКОВ ОЧЕНЬ МАЛО, НО ОНИ РАССТАВЛЕНЫ ТАК ГРАМОТНО, ЧТО ВСТРЕЧАЮТСЯ НА КАЖДОМ ШАГУ.
Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
In reply to Андрей
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#42
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I completely agree with Andrei (by the way, this is the first time).
But there are some caveats, for example, I know from my own experience that authority matters for those who have been on the forum for a long time. But there is also a part of the people who came to us not so long ago; they don't really know how to treat others yet, and there are no authorities for them here yet. Conflicts usually arise with such people.
I myself have received angry PMs from newcomers who thought that their post was unfairly deleted... Although the veterans of this forum said that I was right... And you can't be an authority in everyone's eyes...

In general, I think that this topic has run its course; don't argue with the moderators, coordinators, and admins... If you don't like the spam, argue with those who post it... But not with the moderators; they physically cannot review all messages and topics. Remember, they are also people, and no one pays them for this...
С уважением, Vlad

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In reply to Vlad
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#43
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Xaker;165875
If you don't like the spam, complain to those who post it... But not to the moderators, they physically cannot review all messages and topics. [/COLOR]
Just my two cents. Just in case, I'll chime in. Not in any way claiming to teach anyone anything, or even tell them how things should be done.
I'm a moderator on Heroesleague.ru.
No one pays me for this either. Our forum is smaller than this one, but our entire forum is probably comparable to any thread on your forum for a specific version of Heroes.
Each subforum has its own moderators. But I review absolutely all messages. Everywhere. When I'm not at the computer for a few days, it takes a considerable amount of time. But still, I personally review all messages on the forum.
What's my point? You can be a respectable person. You can be good at Heroes. You can be a TV star and the pride of the forum. But to be a moderator, you need a lot of time. And patience. And a lot more.
I see you're having moderator elections here. Like popular representatives-deputies. Well, here's the thing. Being a moderator is a job. A tedious, difficult, and mostly monotonous job. Those who go into it for power simply don't understand. The power to delete an unwanted message is such nonsense that you only understand when you get it (along with a million responsibilities, of course) that it's not worth the effort.
That's why I don't understand the elections. In any case. Moderators should be responsible people who have the time and desire to work for the good of the forum. Being good, kind, and responsive is not enough here. And I don't understand the election process. It's not a privilege. It's hard work...
So, moderators should be appointed, in my opinion. Tested in the job. And kept or removed. That's the only way.
As for those who are elected... Well, I don't know. Let them be the face of the subforum. Arbitrators. Something else....
They're unlikely to be workhorses.
Модератор форума Лиги Героев (http://forum.heroesleague.ru)



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#44
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Of course, hard work is necessary. But few people know how to do it. And appointments probably need to be made. But you need to appoint reliable people. Those who haven't had time to compromise themselves yet. Take Hacker, for example. He says that at first, he lacked psychological stability and didn't know (as he was a pioneer) that it was even needed. This reminds me of the laws in the USA: if you don't pass a law prohibiting bringing a tiger to the cinema, they will. You also need to think for yourself and not wait for instructions from above! And what, did an instruction come that you shouldn't give in to provocations, and now you, Hacker, don't give in to them? That's good, if that's the case. And even better is that you can admit your mistakes. That means not all is lost yet.
ДУРАКОВ ОЧЕНЬ МАЛО, НО ОНИ РАССТАВЛЕНЫ ТАК ГРАМОТНО, ЧТО ВСТРЕЧАЮТСЯ НА КАЖДОМ ШАГУ.
Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
In reply to Андрей
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#45
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We continue: D
And shnurov_hl and Andrey – you are both essentially correct, but while shnurov_hl likely backs up his words with actions (even if on a different platform), you, Andrey, just want to criticize...
We don't have a team of perfect moderators and coordinators, and it doesn't look like we will anytime soon.
What good will criticism and disrespect towards them and their work do?
Besides, you can't rely on enthusiasm alone for long, and Kyle, Alan, and many others are examples of that... so why destroy the enthusiasm that we do have?
Of course, completely eliminating criticism is also not an option – but at least we should maintain some respect; otherwise, what happens:
Xaker should be removed, Adelaide should be removed... remove half of the moderators, and then what? ... are they taking up someone's place? Are there people who want to be coordinators? Are you sure that a new coordinator will be better than the previous one?
P.S. I believe that inactive members should be replaced (but only when there are new candidates; otherwise, we'll end up with sections where there isn't a single "active" moderator) – and the rest should be treated with more respect, and if you criticize, do it in a friendly manner – then it will be useful, IMHO.
In reply to Alex_R
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#46
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Alex_R;166045
We continue: D
And shnurov_hl and Andrey – you are both fundamentally right, but while shnurov_hl probably confirms his words with actions (albeit on another resource), you, Andrey, just want to criticize...
We don't have a team of ideal moderators and coordinators, and it doesn't seem likely that we will in the future.
What will criticism and disrespect towards them and their work give us?
Moreover, you can't rely on enthusiasm alone for long, and Kyle, Alan, and many others are examples of this... so why destroy the enthusiasm that remains?
Of course, it's also impossible to do without criticism altogether – but at least you need to maintain respect, otherwise what happens:
Xaker should be removed, Adelaide should be removed... remove half of the moderators, and then what? ... are they taking up someone's place? Are there people who want to be coordinators? Are you sure that a new coordinator will be better than the previous one?
P.S. I believe that inactive ones should be replaced (but only when there are new candidates, otherwise we get sections where there is not a single "active" moderator) - and the rest should be treated with more respect, and if you criticize, then do it in a friendly manner - then it will be useful, IMHO.
No, I'm not sure. But only by trial and error can we assemble (if it's even possible) a team of good moderators. Many people in our country think the same way: "Why change Lukashenko? What if the person who comes after him is even worse?". This is a utopia!! A person who has been in power for more than 8-10 years begins to suffer from a messiah complex. This is why the limit on the number of presidential terms was invented.
You probably think that it's easier to criticize than to praise? No. And the reason is obvious – not everyone who is criticized is able to accept it adequately and not become your enemy (if not a foe). And I criticize not because I'm just interested in criticizing (although that's not entirely true), but because there is something to criticize. If everything is fine, then I will do something else.
ДУРАКОВ ОЧЕНЬ МАЛО, НО ОНИ РАССТАВЛЕНЫ ТАК ГРАМОТНО, ЧТО ВСТРЕЧАЮТСЯ НА КАЖДОМ ШАГУ.
Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
In reply to Андрей
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#47
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Take Hacker, for example. He says that at first, he lacked psychological resilience and didn't know (as he was a pioneer) that it was even needed.
I'm either being misunderstood again, or I didn't express myself quite correctly.
When I became a coordinator, I wasn't ready for what was put on my shoulders, and that's how this unpleasant situation arose. However, you can't be initially prepared for this; all moderation experience comes with time. Mistakes happened because there was little experience; we rushed a bit with the appointment to this position, but now it doesn't make sense to talk about it.
I think that to become a good moderator, and then a coordinator, time, mistakes, and various conflicts are needed. Only after that will a person acquire the skills of a good moderator and be able to resolve conflicts. It's not worth immediately saying that a person is not suitable; they are simply new to this field, but everyone has potential. Not everyone simply has enough patience....
С уважением, Vlad

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