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I agree with Draco's post 100%.
The issue of clan feedback will not be included in the new clan rules; the clan rules will only include: requirements for a potential leader and requirements for clan activity.
Regarding the Battle Day and the three birds – okay, let's make it three. And further in Qwerty's post, I didn't understand the part about the months, what does 6, 4, 3 refer to?

Why is everyone so worried? Are some Clans trying to get rid of their members? When they're at the top, they're praised, but when they do something "wrong," they're told to deal with it themselves? As for defenders, I can defend my Clan member myself, or I can delegate those powers to someone else. I can even defend together with someone.
What's the reason for the concern? Are you not sure about your Clan members? Just tell them directly – you're not sure about them. And we don't want to be responsible for you. Or is the selection process for joining a Clan... spontaneous?
I didn't write "LZMS"; I phrased the question completely differently. The idea that some kind of body consisting of Clan Leaders is needed – it seems like almost everyone has understood that. You just don't want it to be called LZMS? Do you not like the letters? Or are there too many of them?
Do you want balance? Do you want harmony? Let's create Clan rewards in addition to criticisms! And balance them. For example, I would suggest giving vbn a Clan reward for his programming activities. And when the balance of criticisms/rewards falls below a certain limit (minus three or minus ten), then it's all over.
Sorry for being so blunt, I just have the best intentions...

Nothing to worry about. We all can be sharp sometimes. But it's worth remembering the good intentions. :) Qwerty, you're misplacing the emphasis.

Are some Clans trying to get rid of their members? When they're in the top positions, they're praised, but when they do something "wrong," they're told to deal with it themselves...? What's the reason for the concern? Are you unsure about your Clan members? Then just tell them directly – you're not sure about them, and you don't want to be responsible for them. Or is the selection process for the Clan... spontaneous?

The emphasis needs to be placed differently (and I've written about this, but there are no clear criteria): I'm ready to take responsibility for the actions of Clan members (like any leader), if the violations of these members relate to Clan/inter-Clan activities. And even then, it's more of an internal matter. For all other cases, violations of the portal rules result in warnings and a ban for the specific user. I can't control "other" cases, and no one has given me the authority (control over every word a person says, their behavior). I said "if you mean" and "I suspect." You know my attitude towards LZMС. And we know what the attitude of others is towards LZMС. And an interaction body is indeed needed – but its goal should be precisely interaction (for example, holding tournaments – is that interaction? yes), and perhaps conflict resolution (although this could also be the primary goal). P.S. I understand you, as they said in that silly advertisement. When you encounter sharp rejection of ideas that, in your opinion, are very good, excellent, and will work, you can get upset. However, at the same time, it's worth listening to the criticism of those around you, who may not always see the truth, who have their own, often incorrect views, and who argue with you. Truth is born in debate – and that's the truth. I wrote this not so much to you, because I know you already know everything, but for the others... who are a little too eager

Why is everyone so worried? Are some Clans trying to get rid of their members? When they are at the top, they are praised, but when something "goes wrong," they say, "Let them deal with it themselves"? As for defenders, I can defend my Clan member myself, or I can delegate these powers to someone else. I can even defend together with someone.
What is this anxiety about? Are you not sure about your Clan members? Then just tell them directly – you are not sure about them. And we don't want to be responsible for you. Or is the selection process for the Clan happening... spontaneously?
I didn't write "LZMS," I phrased the question completely differently. The idea that some kind of body consisting of Clan Leaders is needed – it seems that almost everyone has understood this. You just don't want it to be called LZMS? Do you not like the letters? Or are there too many of them?
Do you want balance? Do you want harmony? Then let's create Clan rewards in addition to criticisms! And balance them. For example, I would suggest giving vbn a Clan reward for his programming activities. And when the balance of criticisms/rewards falls below a certain limit (minus three or minus ten), then it's all over.
Sorry for being so blunt, I just have the best intentions...

What anxiety are you even talking about? Point to a post where someone wrote that they are refusing someone from their Clan! Draco is right, each person in the Clan has their own head on their shoulders, and no one has the right to tell them to do this or that! Regarding "Just tell them directly – you are not sure about them. And we don't want to be responsible for you. Or is the selection process for the Clan happening... spontaneously?" – I will vouch for any person in my Clan, and I am not going to refuse anyone!

Let's not turn this into a scandal over minor comments. 2 Qwerty If this idea has really caught your attention, I suggest demonstrating its usefulness with an example from Haven. In the future, if the idea turns out to be truly remarkable, nothing will prevent us from making a small amendment to the clan regulations... In general, I've read the previous posts and there's nothing new... I suggest we do this: Let's decide about the existing clans - their order and the reasons for their disbandment. This will, to some extent, eliminate the need to make huge amendments to the clan regulations, because if a clan is obviously inactive, it won't last long...

Everything is FINE. (not to be confused with a swear word)
We are again returning to an unproductive discussion that will not yield any results.:smile35:

In my opinion, if you want to make comments about a Clan, they should be for such offenses as – a whole group mocking a homeless person in the street –.:smile30: But I don't think there are such people here, and there are no homeless people (if someone has such a nickname, my apologies). Therefore, this is unnecessary; we lived without it, and we will continue to live, I think even Qwerty would agree.:smile42:

Further, Adelaide, I don't think 50 posts is right; I would stop at 30; I haven't seen any disputes about this number.

Morale, I don't think this is such a necessary factor; personally, I, like many in my coalition, need it so that the old-timers don't get upset (if someone is offended, I didn't mean it):smile36:

I don't know; personally, I am ready to take the blame together with the guilty person from my group; I will not back down from this; you just need to look at things more broadly. For example, I have two penalties that have basically expired; I would also not mind discussing this issue, because otherwise, you can bring anyone down.

If some people want new positions, well, let them create a league of cartographers, a league of translators, and so on. And what will we get? I think that only one Clan was created in the last quarter, and the other is completely paralyzed. In my opinion, a Clan is alive if there is at least one Keeper of the Clan Flame in it, but when a Clan is idle for a couple of months, and everyone knows that it is dying, and no one dares to clean it up, and everyone rejects those who want to revive it, I would personally give such a Clan a couple of warnings! I think that this state of affairs is wrong (the only one who dared has now been banned, and I think this is unfair).

I think that if someone misbehaves in a Clan, then the Clan should not be criticized but helped with advice first. But you are all here like animals, constantly coming up with stricter and stricter rules.

Yes, I agree that all the moderators are doing their job; there is no dispute about this, but I personally think that when power is distributed, it functions better (or when it is in one hand, but one person cannot do everything, so the first option is better). That is, all the moderators were working correctly, and no one had any complaints about them, so let it continue to be so. If a post about a new Clan appears, vultures immediately swoop in. They peck and peck and often peck to death, but those who continue to stand their ground, I think, and I believe that moderators and leaders can take a couple of seconds to help them, and these new rules of yours are a net negative; I would look at the issue from a different angle. That is, not to create laws but to help new leaders; perhaps the moderators are busy, but the leaders of the Clans always have a free minute, and by the way, if you give the deputies power, they will be able to solve exactly these problems.

Let's be honest, the leader decides the issues of the Clan, and the deputy helps and, in addition, exercising their right to moderation, solves some issues, and even the issues of new Clans. And in the format that I proposed, that is, as a form of assistance!


Well, is that fair?:cool:

Basically, I won't say much – everything has already been said.
In short, the main requirements for a leader are: 3 birds (presumably a reference to a forum ranking or achievement), 50 posts, at least 2 months on the forum, and initiative.
A positive reputation, at least 4 members, and at least 5 posts on the forum are the requirements for clan members (in my opinion).
The clan is responsible for its members, but within reason. That is, if one member has a falling out with everyone, that's one thing... But if a third of the clan is doing this, then I'm sorry, the situation changes, and the question of whether such a clan should exist at all arises! In general, I stand by my clan members. I am confident in them!
Next, regarding feedback to clans. Hmm... this requires careful preparation. I will only be satisfied with the option described by Qwerty. That is, we gather together, choose defenders (if there are any), and try to resolve the conflict (the reason for the feedback) – everything should be done properly... of course, this is exactly what the LZMС (presumably a conflict resolution body) was created for. But many do not accept this body – that's their business... I'm not forcing anyone. It's a voluntary matter.
And if we're talking about the League, regarding advertising – it's not needed... we're not selling ourselves, so we don't need to advertise. First. Second, the LZMС is currently active, but since there are no conflicts between clans (thank God), we are not handling any cases... ;) Does that make sense?

Finally, as someone who "monitors clan activity," I would like to see RAPERA. In my opinion, he would do an excellent job...

as a "clan activity tracker," I would like to see RAPERA.

I AM AGAINSTHave you read his posts to new members for a while now?

hmm... regarding responsibility

The clan is responsible for its members, but within limits. That is, if one crazy guy argues with everyone, that's one thing... But if a third of the clan does this, then it's a different matter, and the question of whether such a clan should exist at all can be raised! In general, I am responsible for my clan members. I am CONFIDENT in them!

this issue cannot be resolved so spontaneously... but what to do if a KL member is part of this third... 2 That which doesn't remind you of anything?

So, does anyone object if I summarize the interim results of the negotiations? 1. Requirements for a leader: - active (proactive) user (what are the indicators of activity?); - 30 (or 50) posts; - 2 (3) birds; - two months on the forum. 2. Requirements for a Clan: - number of participants - at least 4; - a clan member must have a positive Reputation and 5 posts (TaKo's suggestion). 3. Requirements for the existence of a Clan: - presence of 4 participants (less - disbandment); - absence of three warnings (if present - disbandment) (Qwerty's suggestion). 4. Other issues: - clan registration period - 1 (2) months; - presence of a charter in the representative topic; - combat, analytical clan. Disputed issues: 1. Requirements for a clan member. 2. Presence of warnings. 3. Control over compliance with the above requirements. 4. Activity and initiative. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now, I'll say something about the disputed points. The requirements for a clan member are reasonable and not too demanding. In addition, I doubt anyone would accept a person with a negative Reputation into the clan. The presence of warnings and control... I've already talked about this. As long as there is no separate section and a normal inter-clan body, there can be no talk of warnings and control, otherwise there will be a lot of spam, flame, and swearing. Activity and initiative of the leader and the clan... How to calculate it: by posts, by Reputation, by the number of tournaments held, by participation in tournaments, by the frequency of appearance on the forum? Or maybe take qualitative indicators? The latter (I am based on the practice of applying laws), unfortunately, are not effective, since they are subjective and depend on the opinion and views of the person applying them. A combination of quantity and quality? But what should it look like? Please explain to me, I don't understand. And again, regardless of how activity is assessed, this item cannot be introduced without control. Read above about control. In short... I suggest that we reduce all issues to a vote. The leader of each clan leaves a post in which he answers the following questions: 1. Requirements for the clan leader. 2. Requirements for the clan. 3. Requirements for the existence of the clan. 4. Other issues. As far as I understand, there can only be two answer options, and I will answer myself now: 1. Requirements for the clan leader. - how many posts should the prospective leader have? (30/50) 50 - what Reputation should the leader have? (2/3) three birds - is it necessary to set a period of stay on the forum (two months)? (yes/no) yes 2. Requirements for the clan. - should the number of participants be 4 or more? (yes/no) yes - should a clan member have a positive Reputation and 5 posts? (yes/no) yes 3. Requirements for the existence of the clan. - should the clan be disbanded if there are fewer than 4 participants for 4 months on the forum? (yes/no) yes - should the clan be disbanded if there is no leader (i.e., he is not present at all and no replacement has been found) for 2 months? (yes/no) yes - should the clan be disbanded if there are fewer than 4 participants in the clan for two months? (yes/no) yes 4. Other issues. - is it necessary to have a charter in the representative topic? (yes/no) yes It's very simple. I suggest organizing such a local democracy. The rules are simple, if there are more than two answer options for any item, it is included in the new regulation. The issue of warnings, about control, is not worth it for the reasons mentioned above. Please answer only the specified questions. Leave everything else "overboard" - I doubt that this will find support from above :). Now, specifics. TaKo, advertising is always needed (it is the engine of progress). With your post, you, unfortunately, proved that LZMS is a closed, inward-looking body (closed not in the sense that it does not accept members, but in the sense that the activities of LZMS are the activities of two or three clans - the initiators). How can you talk about joining LZMS if it is not clear "what this thing is and what it is for"? Nimizida, everything that does not concern the regulations on clans is irrelevant. And there is no need to open a topic. Why? So that everything sinks into... eee... sinks, in general? In addition, those who wish can write in the "General Clan Topic". Well, gentlemen and ladies, let's begin? Otherwise, we'll jump from one topic to another :D

Okay, fine! Now we need to figure out who is voting and who isn't (so that it doesn't turn out like the voting on the League).

I think the leaders should vote. Is there a need to involve deputies? They will most likely vote the same way as the leader (otherwise, where is the unity of the clan?).
As for the other users... let's just say they can answer the same questions in the "General Clan Topic," okay? Their opinion will be taken into account, as they are potential leaders of future clans and potential members. But priority will most likely be given to the opinion of the leaders.
And finally: everything will be decided by the Creator.

Shall we begin?

So, is the issue resolved? The leaders are voting, but how many clans are currently active? For example, I'm not aware of the exact number! The LEADER also seems to be affiliated with a clan, even though it's not officially registered. He has status and achievements, but will anyone listen to him?

Who are you asking? Who is this "them" you're referring to? Or are you addressing me formally? :) :) We are all involved in this – some by choice, others because if they don't participate, the decision will be made without them (and that's likely what will happen). Regarding considering opinions – all opinions will be taken into account, especially those of the future leader. Furthermore, this type of voting helps to find a compromise, which is what we are aiming for. Unfortunately, I can't recall any instance in human history where the outcome pleased everyone. Ultimately, it's up to you/us/them to decide.

Well, my question was directed to all the leaders who are reading this thread! Overall, I agree with your post, Draco, and the voting model is straightforward, as it should be:smile54:
So, when will you start voting? Or is the voting already underway?:cool:

Yes, I see that you're a founder, but for some reason, not a leader... Never mind.

For everyone: the voting has already begun (from the moment I posted with my answers - they were highlighted in bold). And there's a desire to finish it by the end of the week, because the Creator won't be on the forum all the time, as Adelaide wrote.