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Posts from AltNCF - Alternative NCFAuto-translated
I don't know English, and even then ... it takes no more than 2 hours to download and install the programs. apart from some mistake for not paying attention, I would have managed to import models very very very fast. I've been working on modding for years. I have understood that it is more difficult to import models than to model ourselves from 0 ???? Only someone who doesn't know 3D can say that hahahaha. Thanks Zahar for everything. But you still have another query waiting on telegram: D sorryyyyy
PD:I mean importing models with maya2009 and maya6, as Zahar explains.
I was just about to port all 823 creatures from Heroes 6-7, King's Bounty, Disciples, Mortal Kombat 9-10. However, considering the "convenient" method of porting, it will take approximately 6-7 years just to transfer the creatures. About 20-30 will need to be done manually, which will take even more time (of course, creating models from scratch is not as difficult as porting). Overall, the mod is almost ready; only the models are left. If I could find a faster and less troublesome way to transfer the models (plus, Maya 2009 won't activate on my computer).
It's unclear whether I will continue working on it. Right now, I want to rest and think about how to handle the import process. I might even release a version with peasants for testing.
What is meant by "creating from scratch"? Animations? If so, I can help find free models that might fit into the world of Heroes. :)
Added 1 minute ago xuxo
I don't know English, and even then... it takes no more than 2 hours to download and install the programs. Apart from some mistake due to not paying attention, I would have managed to import models very, very, very fast. I've been working on modding for years. I understood that it is more difficult to import models than to model ourselves from 0???? Only someone who doesn't know 3D can say that, hahaha. Thanks, Zahar, for everything. But you still have another query waiting on Telegram: D, sorryyyyy
PD: I mean importing models with Maya 2009 and Maya 6, as Zahar explains.
I have an idea) Maybe, together, we can resurrect Heroes 5 modding, maybe by helping Fenix1000 with his project?
I don't know English, and even then... it takes no more than 2 hours to download and install the programs. Apart from some mistake due to not paying attention, I would have managed to import models very, very, very fast. I've been working on modding for years. I've realized that it's more difficult to import models than to model them from scratch??? Only someone who doesn't know 3D can say that, hahaha. Thanks, Zahar, for everything. But you still have another request waiting on Telegram: D, sorryyyyy
P.S.: I mean importing models with Maya 2009 and Maya 6, as Zahar explains.
I already make models from scratch in ZBrush, and it's really easier than dealing with all the hassle just for MMH5, like modeling and then accepting it. When I tried to adapt a model from Heroes 7 (it was a kobold) to Zahar's tutorial, I spent 7 hours just on the 3D Max step. When I tried to install and activate Maya 2009 and failed, I asked myself, "Why? Why am I doing this? If this feature takes so much time and effort, I'm not sure I'll live to see the end of the mod's creation. I'll just become a mummy, importing 200+ creatures and 600 items."
Added 19 minutes ago Mokara
What is meant by "creating from scratch"? Animations? If so, I can help find free models that might fit into the world of Heroes. :)
The thing is, the models aren't really needed. Creating a model of average quality takes 2-3 hours. Making animations isn't very time-consuming either. But when importing, I spend that time just trying to understand what's happening. Clicking on these small buttons. If you accidentally touch something with your finger, you have to start all over again. Max also freezes constantly. It would be great to write a program that would automate this process, but I don't have enough knowledge to write it yet. No matter how great NCF looks, I'm not ready to spend the rest of my life polishing it. As soon as the files are uploaded to the cloud, I'll post a link with the results of my work – maybe you'll find something interesting there.
Added 36 minutes ago If importing isn't a difficult task for someone, I can offer to work together – I provide the models, and another person moves them.
I already create models from scratch in ZBrush, and it's really easier than struggling with the tools just for MMH5, like you model and then accept it. When I tried to adapt a model from Heroes 7 (it was a kobold) to Zahar's tutorial, I spent 7 hours just on the 3D Max step. When I tried to install and activate Maya 2009 and failed, I asked myself, "Why? Why am I doing this? If this feature takes so much time and effort, I'm not sure I'll live to see the end of the mod's creation. I'll just become a mummy, importing 200+ creatures and 600 items."
Added 19 minutes ago
MokaraWhat is meant by "creating from scratch"? Animations? If so, I can help find free models that might fit into the world of Heroes. :)
The point is that the models aren't needed. Creating a model of average quality will take 2-3 hours. Making animations isn't very time-consuming either. But when importing, I use this time only to understand what's happening. Clicking on these small buttons, accidentally touching with your finger – everything starts over. Max also freezes constantly. It would be great to write a program that would automate this process, but I don't have enough knowledge to write it yet. No matter how great NCF looks, I'm not ready to spend the rest of my life polishing it. As soon as the files are uploaded to the cloud, I'll post a link with the results of my work – maybe you'll find something interesting there.
Added 36 minutes ago If importing isn't a difficult task for someone, I can suggest working together – I provide the models, and another person moves them.
I suggest making a call to action. The idea itself is excellent. You can create a post on Heroescommunity, attach screenshots of examples. It's a pity that the import method was found when NCF had already faded. In 2009-2010, there was a peak in modding for Heroes. But I think we can catch up
The funny thing is that models aren't even needed. Creating a model of average quality takes 2-3 hours. Making animations isn't very time-consuming either. But when importing, I use this time just to figure out what's going on. Clicking on these little buttons, and if you accidentally nudge one with your finger, you have to start all over.
I have serious doubts about this. The idea that you can create an "average" quality model in 2-3 hours (even just a model without unwrapping, textures, bones, and rigging) is questionable, unless it's a simple sword model or a quick sculpt over a ZBrush base mesh.
And the thought that "there are all these buttons, and I can't figure out where to click," and it takes two hours, is also not very convincing. I honestly don't understand what's so difficult to figure out. The process is as intuitive as possible. Like, to import an animation, you click the "import animation" button, and so on. This might take some time at first, but trust me, once you get the hang of it, a complete rough import (without editing textures, animations, or geometry) takes less than an hour. And I'm not including the time spent installing programs, turning on the computer, and so on, because you do that once, and there's no need to spend time on it before each import. So, I don't understand how that can be considered part of the task completion time.
The idea of creating your own models is very good and correct. But don't draw not-so-smart conclusions about the complexity of the task. That is, I want to say, how can "taking a ready-made model and putting it into the game" be more difficult than "creating a model from scratch and putting it into the game"? How can this logically exist in someone's head? If you're so intimidated by the stage of working with the model in Max (importing the file, adding the first bone), you should realize that you'll have to do much more than just that stage to create a fully functional model. You'll suddenly have to create more than one bone.
Added 8 minutes later Mokara
I suggest creating a call to action. The idea itself is excellent. You could post it on Heroescommunity and attach screenshots of examples. It's a shame that the import method was discovered when NCF was already fading. In 2009-2010, there was a peak in Heroes modding. But I think we can catch up.
Oh yeah, a screenshot with 800 peasants will inspire a bunch of people to unite around a common idea. Well, maybe not a bunch, but the two people who are still on HK. Anyway, I have doubts that it will work.
Although the idea is generally correct, I think it should have been approached differently.
And yes, you didn't read about the import method? It's bad. Too complicated. All those buttons. Seriously, guys, what's with all the calls to action? You can't even figure out the simplest task.
I have serious doubts about this. About the fact that you create a "medium" quality model in 2-3 hours (even just a model without unwrapping, textures, bones, and rigging). Unless it's a model of some simple sword. Or a quick sculpt over a ZBrush base mesh.
In ZBrush, people create a complete model of a humanoid character with a quality much higher than what's needed for Heroes 5. I do it slower, of course, but not that slowly. I was talking about the import process itself, not about working with animations, etc. In The Elder Scrolls, you can import a model in two clicks, but in Heroes, you have to go through so much trouble, as if you were moving mountains.
If importing isn't a difficult task for someone, I can suggest we work together – I provide the models, and someone else moves them.
In short, as usual, solve my problems for me. And you know what, just for fun, I can help) If you really can create a complete model in 3 hours, as you say, I'm ready to help you get it into the game. But it must be a textured model attached to a character skeleton that looks better than complete garbage. And I'll need proof, something like speed modeling with a timer on the side. If you accomplish this "small task," I'm ready to help with the "overwhelming task" of importing the model into the game. At the very least, one of us knows that you won't complete this work in 2-3 hours, let alone 6-9. So, my advice is, don't write with an air of superiority about things you don't understand, and don't make Footman's mistakes.
Added 1 minute ago Phoenix 2100
In ZBrush, people create a complete model of a humanoid character with a quality far exceeding what's needed for Heroes 5. I do it a little slower, but not that slowly. I was talking about the import process itself, not working with animations, etc. In The Elder Scrolls, you can get a model into the game in two clicks, but in Heroes, you have to go through so much trouble, as if you're moving mountains.
Should I tell you specifically where you're wrong here, or is that unnecessary, and is it unnecessary for me to waste time?
I can even record a video with screen capture, showing how I create a model from scratch with a timer, and post the link here. But not today, maybe tomorrow or the day after.
Go ahead, it will be interesting to see. Can you handle everything (texturing, rigging to the skeleton, if you're working in ZBrush, you'll probably also need retopology) in 3 hours, as you promised? I can help with importing it into the game, as I promised.
Go for it, it will be interesting to see. If you can handle everything (texturing, rigging to the skeleton, if you're working in ZBrush, you'll probably also need retopology) in 3 hours, as you promised, I can help with importing it into the game, as I promised.
I didn't say anything about the skeleton. I'll do it within a couple of days.
Added 1 minute ago I mean, I'll set aside time and do it, not that I'll be working on it for two days.
P.S. Don't aim to do everything quickly, and don't get upset if you can't manage it within your 3 hours. Trying to create your own models is cool in itself, and I fully support you in this and wish you good luck. But you need to understand that creating a character from scratch in 2-3 hours is a practically impossible task, even for a professional working in the industry, and as far as I understand, you are quite a novice in all of this. Perhaps you will be able to create something in the style of Minecraft, and that would already be great, because even that is not so simple. I advise you not to think that things are easier elsewhere (about importing with one click in Skyrim, spoiler alert, it's not that easy) but simply to enjoy your small successes, and try to do something useful (learning modeling is useful). I advise you not to plan a mod with 800 models until you have created at least one. You simply won't do it. Not because you are bad, but because it is almost impossible.
Added 4 minutes ago Phoenix 2100
I wasn't talking about the skeleton. I'll do it in a couple of days.
Added 1 minute ago I mean, I'll set aside time and do it, not that I'll be working on it for two days.
A skeleton is implied in a "finished" model, as are the texture and UV mapping. A high-poly sculpt is not considered a finished model, because, surprisingly, it cannot be used in the game. Anyway, just for fun, how long will it take you to do the skinning? 5 minutes?)) or "I don't know yet, I haven't looked"?
Added 2 minutes ago I'm just kidding, joking. But maybe I can give you some advice on what and how? What stages will be in your work on creating a model, what programs will you need, and why won't you be able to do it in 3 hours?
It was planned that 90% of the models would simply be taken from other games, and importing was perceived as something simple. That's why I decided it would be easy. Who knew that the process of introducing a model into the game would be incomprehensible to my intellect?
Many hours in ZBrush can be spent creating a cinematic model, one where pores are drawn, each hair is unique, the eye's mesh, etc. Heroes 5 still wouldn't be able to handle that. But sculpting a little man and adding details to him isn't that time-consuming.
Oh, damn. Don't you understand that you can't just take a model from ZBrush and use it in a game?
Look. ZBrush, like any 3D sculpting program, works with a very large number of polygons with a very dense mesh. For example, when I sculpted a glove, I had about 4-5 million polygons. This is necessary for sculpting, but the game (especially Heroes) will crash if you feed it something like that. There's a good chance that Max will crash too. That's why a retopology process is needed. What is retopology? Retopology is changing the mesh, reducing the number of polygons, and then projecting the high-polygon sculpt onto this new mesh. This creates a normal map. Based on it, programs like Substance Painter draw textures, but there's still a lot of manual work involved.
Maybe the goal shouldn't be to force a specific number of creatures (800 or so) into the game? Just as HotA didn't aim to completely replace WOG, but rather to improve it, no one said, "We'll have the same number of towns, creatures, and an eighth level, just like in WOG, but better." Instead, people created a global mod with new content, as they envisioned it. The same applies here – if there are only 50 creatures, but they are well-designed, they can compete with eight hundred generic NCF creatures, in my opinion. There's no point in aiming for a huge and unnecessary amount right away and then getting discouraged by the complexity of the task.
xuxo
