Posts from MMH5.5 - Heroes of Might and Magic 5.5 Auto-translated

In ToTe both upgrades has the same speed and initiative.

The idea to make magic classes have up to 50% knowledge and boost spell cost massively only works in game that completely resolve around a single human vs human battle. It doesn't work if the hero has to conquer lots of teritory battling dozens of huge neutral stacks.

It only creates variation on paper, not in practice. In practice those heros will just be forced into spellpower boosting perks. the variation between magic classes has to come from different combinations of magic schools.

The idea that any might boost perk needs to give a strong immediate boost doesn't make much sense. In HOMM3 Might heroes never get a strong boost at any point in the game, they just get small unnoticeable boosts with every levelup and then suddenly at level 30 you realize: 'wow these might heroes are just so much better than magic heroes'.

Might perks don't need to catch up with early game destructive magic damage. Might heroes answer that with war machines and higher combat damage. war machines = 'might destructive magic'.

All weak perks and overpowered perks in h55 are placed in such a way that ultimately the amount of invested slots is fair.

Nonetheless he is probably right about sorcery, I forgot the last 4% increases initiative much more than the first. If mass ATB goes to 0, sorcery will have to go back a little as well.

By the way, sorcery is a must have for magic heroes because Nival decided this was the way for hero initiative to catch up with creature initiative. This wasn't really my decision. In my opinion both hero initiative as well as logistics should increase a tiny bit with every level for every hero.

In summary, I'm considering to make the following changes to H55:

mass ATb 0
sorcery 16/24/32 or 10/20/30
combat 10/20/30
defense= same as offense (20%)
archery=15%

The idea to make magic classes have up to 50% knowledge and boost spell cost massively only works in a game that completely revolves around a single human vs human battle. It doesn't work if the hero has to conquer lots of territory battling dozens of huge neutral stacks.

In HOMM3, Might heroes never get a strong boost at any point in the game; they just get small, unnoticeable boosts with every level up, and then suddenly at level 30, you realize: 'wow, these might heroes are just so much better than magic heroes'.

mass ATb 0
sorcery 16/24/32 or 10/20/30
combat 10/20/30
defense= same as offense (20%)
archery=15%

Might perks don't need to catch up with early game destructive magic damage. Might heroes answer that with war machines and higher combat damage. war machines = 'might destructive magic'.

Archery - you are weakening it unnecessarily; the skill isn't that strong even at 20%. If you are making attack, defense, and evasion 20%, then it makes sense to leave Archery at 20% as well.

I'm glad to see 0.0 mass ATB - but I'm interested in the technical aspect; did the problem with 0 resolve itself, or did you set a very small bonus, like 0.000001?

By the way, what do you think about the "Battle Frenzy" skill, which is extremely strong while 1-2 tier units are relevant (given that it provides a passive bonus)? In what situations would a player refuse to upgrade "Battle Frenzy," such an easily accessible skill? Perhaps it should be swapped with the offensive skill? At level 1 of the skill, it requires Basic Offense, which is not bad in itself (+10% melee damage), while at level 2 of the skill, it requires Advanced Offense (an additional +5% melee damage), which is quite weak and would act as a simple stepping stone, compensating for the great power of the skill itself (in addition to how weak troop recruitment is a stepping stone for the speed aura).

I looked, and the problem isn't just with wizardry. Earth Shock has been increased from 40*SP to 50*SP, which is extremely dangerous in the early game. Especially with Empowered Spells + the wizard's mark. That's why I suggested reviewing the magical concept, in favor of increasing the cost of spells, especially higher circles (which would also be useful for increasing the value of knowledge). So that in the first month of the game, it is not possible to build an easy victory with spells of levels 4-5, but in a longer game, they would fully reveal their power (increase the price and strength).

With perks like "Battle frenzy" and "vitality" that Heroes V brought you actually can make low tiers catch up with the high tiers. With the MMH55 change in primary skill bonus to 3.33% low tiers can actually match high tiers. So when players are on the battlefield there is no tier that is considered the win factor of the enemy. Now the battle comes down to maneuverability and tactical decisions.

Lets say you have 40 knowledge and 10-15 spellpower and destruction school:
- During a PvE battle you will get a lot of casualties because the enemy creatures will act a lot of times before you kill them

where both players build a level 30-40 hero and have army that equals 6 months of time from 2 castles.

It is not possible to get 40-50 spell power on month 1. The highest you can go is probably something around 20 on week 4 and this is possible only if you pick Occultism (I have not played in a while so I may be faking the information but it is around that value.). For your information it is possible to go beyond 60 Spellpower in one game.

Because you like so much blitz PvP ( and probably other people too) I have an idea of an arena mode where both players build a level 30-40 hero and have army that equals 6 months of time from 2 castles. I believe this will satisfy all the players that prefer battle mode . The worst part is that it is just an idea and is not on the priority list. Of course if anyone wants to start working on this I won't complain

I'm not saying to remove this skill (not at all). But it deviates significantly from the concept of small, passive +2 bonuses, providing a very noticeable boost (effectively an essential skill that people take for Offense and tolerate the insignificant +5% bonuses).
If you compare Battle Frenzy to Aura of Swiftness, they are roughly equal in strength.
Vitality is noticeably weaker than Battle Frenzy, but it's still an order of magnitude stronger than the +2 bonuses.

If spells of level 4-5 are expensive, it means that with 40 knowledge, I can use Meteor Shower and Implosion every turn, while a hero with 10-15 knowledge will quickly run out of mana and have to switch to less powerful spells.
I suggested a concept of 5-10-20-40-80 mana (with an increase in the power of level 4-5 spells as well). With 10-15 knowledge, you won't be able to cast many spells that cost 40-80 mana (with Empowered, it will be 80-120, for a single use).
To make sure you understand correctly, this is not about weakening heroes with average knowledge (because the more expensive spells will be more powerful), but about unlocking the potential for mana scaling, unlocking super-spells for those heroes who have enough mana.
For example, a Fireball for 20 mana can work just as well as the current Meteor Shower for ~20 (if you increase the damage), and Meteor Shower and Shock can be made more expensive, to 40 and 80, while simultaneously significantly increasing the power of these spells.

6 months with 2 cities is a very, very large army (and 30-40 levels is also a lot). It's no wonder that your Magic heroes suffer, and you have to weaken the skills of Might heroes because of them.
For comparison, in a similar PvP RTA, the gains are from week 6 of 1 castle (!). And the hero levels are around 20, and the maximum SP ranges up to 30.
You have 10 times more troops, and SP is far from 200-300.

I just thought that you were aiming for 3-6 months, not about 6 months (not that long). About 6 months means 4-8 months of gameplay, not 3-6.

It's impossible, but 20-30 is quite possible (for a Warlock with skilled education). I have no doubt about this because, in the original game, I have seen level 20 heroes on week 3, since players who play effectively will not wait a long time to reach a high level if they can do it faster. Unless, of course, you have slowed down the experience gain from killing neutrals.
I repeat, for a complete balance test, you need players who are focused on playing quickly, as quickly and efficiently as possible, and not just people who like to play leisurely for 6 months. Try to attract someone among the active TE players.

For my part, I recently prefer pure PvP, and this is one of the reasons why I could not be the kind of player who would show you in practice what fast gameplay is like (I haven't played the original game in PvE for a long time). That is, it is difficult to get me involved in PvE; for this, a truly very cool and well-thought-out balance is needed to make it interesting. And in my understanding, a cool balance and weak skills are incompatible concepts, no matter what you write about accumulating small bonuses for a Might hero of level 30 :).
For example, if there are 30% offense or 30% archery and other comparable passive bonuses, I will say, "it sounds cool, I want to try it; in the original or other modifications, there are no such good skills, but you have." This feeling is comparable to a racer who likes speed but is limited by moving at a low speed only because he is overtaking a pedestrian, for whom the balance is built.
You will never have this feeling of rapid progress due to strong passive skills until Magic heroes suffer and are not able to deal enough damage with spells in a prolonged game (and for this, it is necessary to increase the cost and power of higher-level spells). Because when Magic heroes have enough mana, knowledge ceases to be valuable, and in fact, the Magic hero must fight on bare SP against two parameters: At, Df, and a growing army of Might.

You write about fast encounters on week 6; this means either the players are not playing fast enough, or you have some special map features or fundamental changes that do not allow you to meet on weeks 3-4, about which I do not yet know.

There is a map called Half-Random Tactical Arena; you can take it as a basis and rework the scripts for specific skills, and then you will have a ready-made arena for MMH5.5.

I would like to understand why you consider levels 30-40 attractive for PvP?

I am not comparing the mod to Heroes V because Heroes V maps do not have the gameplay depth. Basically in a month or two the game was over and you just have one castle.

In theory it sounds good but in practice it can't work. This means the Knowledge hero should wait until his max mana gets up to certain number to start utilizing magic he is not certain he will get. Your example is about Destruction, it can work with Dark too, but what about Light? Summoning?

Also how is this hero going to clear creatures on the map when he has to spend all his mana in one battle to compensate for lack of other skills?
Does he have to return to castle to reload mana every time? there are a lot of holes to cover.

I have seen people play for about 10-11 months.

2JonnyP:
Wouldn't you be willing to stream gameplay of MMH5.5 for at least the first 4-6 weeks?
It would be very interesting to watch a professional TE player play this mod.

The teleport to the third area was guarded by 100 titans and 400 rakshasas.