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We tested it with Gee, and I thank him for that. Here, I have to agree with his opinion that the generation for single-player and multiplayer is indeed different, unfortunately. There were a decent number of bugs (unnecessary connections between zones along the way) due to a mine or elevator in the dungeon. Maybe it was just bad luck, or maybe the map generation algorithm really does change in the online game, which is quite surprising. But still, at the start with the blue dungeon, the situation was quite good. I'll think about it; maybe I can figure something out through trial and error. I've heard all the advice and suggestions, and regarding the corner villages, I'll change the guard to 6k because it sometimes blocks the main road and can cause development problems. I don't really see anything too terrible for the 2nd week with a 9k guard, but it seems that 6k really looks more optimal. Thanks, I'll try to remove the double path to the villages.
Firstly, the statistics are taken in a spherical vacuum, simply based on roads.
This is statistics for roads; what else should it show, the weather in your house?
They rarely cause problems with normal use.
When the entrance is 1.5 days away through rough terrain, and it's not immediately clear where it is, problems are guaranteed. And having 2 extra heroes isn't always possible.
Here, it's more like the principle of mice and cacti, or perhaps people are simply afraid to play something unknown and unadvertised. 6lm is the most unbalanced template; Blue has an inherent 25% advantage in winning.
Added 16 minutes later
Yes, it's funny; the balance on the paths is somehow shifted slightly in favor of Blue, with a score of 27:28 out of 20 generations. At first glance, you'd expect a large number of one-sided matches to appear, but no, it only happened once out of 20 (the only path leading to a one-sided victory). I need to remember this combination.
The balance of paths needs to be calculated slightly differently – how many key zones are accessible to the player within 2-3 turns from the main path.
A map with a single path that branches into three directions in the adjacent zone is usually quite playable.
The balance of paths needs to be calculated slightly differently – how many key zones are available to the player within 2-3 turns from the main base.
Regarding the mix. Yes, that's exactly how I considered the resulting generations. I mentioned this when describing why the rare appearance of a one-sided monolith wasn't critical: its appearance in all those generations didn't cut off the red/blue player from further expansion to new zones; the main thing is that it didn't lead to a dead end, it just blocked one of several branches of expansion. However, mines located along the road can significantly ruin everything that was enjoyable in the single-player generations.
This is statistics about roads; what else should it show, the weather inside a house?
That's exactly what I'm saying – it's spherical statistics in a vacuum. Simply counting the number of roads for Red and Blue, without considering the nuances of capturing them and the various opportunities they provide when used skillfully, is not a very good assessment.
Just counting the number of roads for red and blue, without considering the specifics of the starting hand and the various opportunities it provides when used skillfully, is a rather poor assessment.
It seems you think the contents depend on the roads, but that's not the case — it's random. Yes, it affects the overall probability of winning, but the variability of zone filling is very difficult to track; I haven't heard of blue getting fewer cons or Dragon Utopias. Furthermore, I was talking about road statistics — if a player is okay with a dead end in 15% of generations and no roads after 4-5 respawns — fine, I have nothing to say. Although with the overhaul, the 2nd point is not that significant.
It seems you think that the map layout depends on the roads, but that's not the case; it's random. Yes, it affects the overall probability of winning, but the variability in zone generation is very difficult to track. I haven't even heard of Blue having fewer resources or utopias. Furthermore, I was talking about statistics regarding the roads. If a player is okay with a dead end in 15% of the games and difficult terrain after 4-5 resource nodes, then that's fine; I have nothing to say. Although, with the map overhaul, the second point is not as important.
I'm not saying that the map layout depends on the roads. But firstly, Blue spawns much more often in the corner of the map (at least, the castles that spawn on the surface do), which is very convenient for some castles, such as Castle, to defend Archons. And the corner spawn is usually larger than the central one and, accordingly, quite rich in money and resources. Secondly, even if there is only one road, but the zones have no penalty, you can often reach a good road junction through a reasonable difficult terrain/one-way road. Then, in 6LM, it's also important to consider the convenience of the super-resource location, through which you can play in some games right away (and some, like Ivy, even believe that you should play through it in all games :D). In general, there are many nuances in evaluating the layout for Blue and Red, and a superficial look at the number of forks immediately from the castle or at the nearest intersection is not sufficient. And yes, the map overhaul is, of course, very important for a reasonable game in 6LM.
I'm not saying that Blue always has a complete fuck-up on 6lm, but still, 40% for minus 1-2 roads is a serious blow to map exploration. And what does it mean to def/protect archangels? Unreachability via Dimension Door? And what are supertreasures—a small empty central zone with mines?
there are many nuances in evaluating the layout for Blue
Which of these depends on the number of roads? Do you think these probabilities correlate? Why? Yes, it's very often possible to get out, but that's like talking about Russian roulette—very often you hit an empty slot.
one-way portals, which many people are so afraid of, if they are not on the penalty adjacent zone, then they very rarely cause problems when used normally.
Great quote :D So one-way portals do cause problems: 1. On the penalty adjacent zone. 2. On a non-penalty adjacent zone (rarely). 3. When used abnormally.
Below are pictures of how I got kicked out of an only-HL game. When evaluating the problems, please also consider that from that one-way portal, orange's heroes kept coming through with decent power, cutting off my scouting and chains, and preventing me from finding the entrance to use that one-way portal properly.
For example, I'm not sure that my win percentage with the blue color on 6lm is lower than with the red color. FTS, whom many now recognize as top1, has said several times that his win statistics with blue on 6lm are higher than with red. This is of course all taking into account the rebate for the color in the bidding.
Well, perhaps it's precisely a matter of the rebate. I.e., if we assume that the rebate compensates for bad roads, then those games where blue gets both roads and a rebate, as well as those games where red pays a rebate and gets bad roads, will shift the balance in blue's favor.
In that one-way map, the orange-colored heroes kept coming at me with decent strength, cutting down my scouts and chains, hindering my search for the entrance to properly utilize that one-way map.
At the bottom of the picture, you can see how I got kicked out of the online lobby.
In my opinion, playing in 6LoM tournaments without fixing the one-sided map issue is reckless. On all other points, +10. Sometimes, 1 out of 4 or 5 times, the one-sided maps don't cause many problems, and 1 out of 10 or 15 times, they can even be somewhat convenient, but promoting this is unfair.
IMHO playing tournaments on 6lm without fixing 1-side spawns is reckless. On all other points +10) Sometimes, 1 time out of 4..5, 1-side spawns cause almost no trouble, 1 time out of 10..15 they can even be more convenient in some ways, but promoting such a thing is unfair.
And which template is it not reckless to play in tournaments? An even more imbalanced Spider? Or the linear 8mm6a with a meeting at the start of the 2nd and pushing from the center whoever got less resources along the roads, or hm12a, where the blue win rate on the forum statistics is even lower than on 6lm and 1-side spawns are no less common? Or maybe even the Block template with a million utopias, 8xm8a? That's about HLKIs only for HL tournaments; for other templates you can also name plenty of minuses and imbalances. And I'm tired of arguing about how playable or unplayable 6lm is with a person who provides some specific numbers on the percentage of spawns on it, but at the same time writes something like this...zoog
I'm not saying that on 6lm blue always gets a complete screw-up, but still 40% at minus 1-2 roads is a serious blow to map exploration. And what does it mean to defend/protect archangels? Inaccessibility via DD? And what is a supertreasure - a small empty central zone with mines?
Supertreasure is zones 17-20, potentially the fattest zones on 6lm, treasures without villages, with relics on the ground. They always have an exit via wasteland from the adjacent zone with 9k guards. Maybe it would have been worth at least looking at the template diagram, where the names of these zones are written...? Anyway, peace to all, I shouldn't have let myself get drawn into this topic, but honestly it's hard to read a template analysis based on some percentages if the person doesn't understand it (the template), but still confidently pushes their opinion. And respect to Medium for trying to come up with something more playable and refined; maybe something truly good will come of it. Overall I agree with him that 6lm is the most popular now among HLE not because it's so great itself, but simply because it's the most playable compared to others.
You're talking about a single super treasure. Which, by definition, is one, if there are several, then these are already treasures. The zones don't have names, only numbers. I'm trying to understand where you were inaccurate and what you meant.
if a person doesn't understand it (the template), but still confidently pushes their opinion
You still won't understand that I'm only talking about the paths; the content doesn't matter. If you don't care about the paths, just say so; I won't argue. If you think I have incorrect statistics, provide your own.
Added 3 minutes ago
And what template is it not reckless to play in tournaments?
Let the organizers decide; I provided the information, and how to use it is up to each individual.
Sav1tarrr
