Heroic International – A Manifesto — Inter-Clan Section — Page 5

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Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#1 10/7/2006 3:39 AM UTC

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After the intensified clan building on our portal, some negative aspects of these actions became apparent. We started arguing with each other, quarreling, and getting offended. Clan affiliation is replacing personal friendship. Therefore, I propose creating an extra-clan, informal association based on the principles of honor and friendship. The Manifesto of the Heroic International 1 - The Heroic International (HI) is an extra-clan association of portal users. 2 - HI is an unofficial association that does not aim to create another clan. 3 - HI is not built on a clan, racial, or any other differentiating basis, but exclusively on the principle of personal friendship and mutual respect. 4 - The main goal of HI is to maintain good relations between all users and resolve any conflicts between them. 5 - To join HI, you do not need to leave your clan, you do not need to renounce its charter, slogans, and so on. All that is needed is a conscious decision from any user. 6 - The only condition for HI members is honesty towards each other, mutual respect, and a desire to resolve all issues peacefully. 7 - If HI members play against each other, fulfilling their obligations to the clan, they should not turn the duel into a battle, but treat it as a friendly game. 8 - All those who join HI and sign this manifesto undertake additional moral and ethical obligations, expressed in tolerance and respect for everyone, even those not in HI. 9 - As punitive sanctions, HI uses the Wall of Shame, where users will be placed for violating the portal rules, with an indication of the reason. 10 - If a user constantly ignores notifications from HI (on the Wall of Shame), HI has the right to contact the coordinator or Creator with a request to apply sanctions to that user. 11 - The manifesto will be supplemented as proposals from HI members are received. HEROES of all races and alignments - join us!!! Now we have become WE. Now we are united: 1) Sergh 2) ***JOKER*** 3) Xaker 4) Ann 5) Eric Wynn 6) AlexeyPank 7) Ta kotoraya... 8) Night 9) Леля 10) Nowizard 11) nprf 12) Prorock 13) GvozD 14) СТРАННиК 15) M@dM@ster 16) RAPER 17) natasha 18) VDV_forever 19) Inquisitor 20) Джомалунга 21) Tengro 22) Аделаида 23) †Smok† 24) Смок 25) Александр Г.К. 26) Darth Saruman 27) S@ndro 28) Saruman 29) Predvestnik 30) R@zer 31) Varg-Nar 32) Atalasa 33) Alex_R 34) vbn 35) Маэлгрим 36) ewgeniy 37) АЛУКАРД 38) SandroXXL 39) vuzzza 40) XEL 41) Starhan 42) eXeCuToR 43) Dark_Knight 44) General ZeT 45) Brackman 46) Cheri@ 47) Дубровин Павел 48) Light God 49) loi 50) _Prizrak_ 51) shaddar 52) Mefisto 53) DarkMind 54) NIGHT_HUNTER 55) Vayshan 56) COLORADO 57) OUTLAW 58) T@mar@ 59) Leolopus 60) Kitty 61) Белый Волк 62) Denminator 63) Cr@zy Wolf 64) Malificus 65) DemonWarrior 66) Vip.rus 67) Малый 68) Mutare Drake

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Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
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Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#63 11/7/2006 9:06 PM UTC

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If the reaction of the organizers was important, and not that of the GIs, then you should have written directly to the organizers. There is no need to turn this topic into a testing ground. It is for peace, not discord.

Added after 4 minutes
Here is a link to one of PALADIN's similar posts: /post/36899/
"You must respect your opponents regardless of their skill level and play seriously" - how else can this be interpreted? We are all so sophisticated that we even have to play at full strength against losers, even though they don't know how to play.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Registered: 12/24/2005

Posts: 216

#64 11/7/2006 9:23 PM UTC

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AlexeyPank;44131

If the reaction of the organizers was important, and not that of the GIs, then you should have written to the organizers directly. There is no need to turn this topic into a testing ground. It is for peace, not discord.

Added after 4 minutes
Here is a link to one of PALADIN's similar posts /post/36899/
"You must respect your opponents regardless of their skill level and play seriously" - how else can this be interpreted? We are all so trendy that we even have to play at full strength against losers, even though they don't know how to play.

I needed the reaction of the tournament organizer in the GI thread! Well, moderate it if you think it should have been discussed privately.
I don't think so, and I already wrote about it. And I was very grateful that PALADIN did not hesitate during the "Knights of Honor" tournament to stand up for those whom they didn't want to accept into the tournament. I still believe that I got there thanks to the topic he opened.

Regarding this post, I remember Fanat disapproved of it. I don't see anything special here. The reproach was directed at me because I played very poorly. That's what happened. But you always need to play seriously; that's how it should be. It's a pity that you don't see what is actually in this post. I would like to draw attention to something else. PALADIN did not send a weak save to the arena tournament, which he would have won if he had done so. This is what principles are, as stated in the post that caused such a reaction. By the way, that’s a $200 prize!

Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#65 11/7/2006 9:36 PM UTC

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I am generally against playing Heroes for money. It's not in the spirit of the game. And even so, I think complaining about not being chosen is silly. And to display your resentment for everyone to see is also unethical. Although, IMHO.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Registered: 1/30/2006

Posts: 109

#66 11/7/2006 10:33 PM UTC

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AlexeyPank;44149

I am generally against playing Heroes for money. It's not in the spirit of the game. And still, I think that making accusations like "they didn't pick me" is silly. And to display your resentment publicly – that’s also unethical. Although, IMHO.

You can always refuse a prize. But for me, Heroes is more of a sport than a game, so let's play!
It doesn't matter to me whether they picked me or not. I have already proven everything to myself in Heroes, and I no longer intend to prove anything to others. I'm too old to play just to show off.
All conflicts are resolved through discussion; there is no other way. And this isn't about grudges. I simply can afford to express my opinion, while some newcomers might read such rules and be afraid to ask: "take me!" As most people do, they don't want to include everyone who wants to participate in the tournament, so it's okay, I'll go play in another tournament. Or if it's not a tournament, but a website. Or if I don't want to play, I'll leave altogether and never come back. The problem lies in this, not in grudges. I don't like the fact that such an attitude towards newcomers is considered acceptable here!!!

Added 4 minutes ago

AlexeyPank;44131

Added 4 minutes ago
[/U]Here’s a link to one of PALADIN's similar posts /post/36899/
"You need to respect your opponents regardless of their skill level and play seriously" - how else can this be interpreted? We are all so sophisticated that we even have to play at full strength against losers, even though they don't know how to play.

It's amazing how what was written can be interpreted exactly opposite to its meaning. It's about respecting the opponent. A weak save – that's disrespect, in my opinion!

Added 14 minutes ago

AlexeyPank;44122

Okay. Then let's make the Guild In-game (GI) an arbitrator in all disputes and quarrels between users. Let's constructively resolve all grievances.

That is correct. But I don't understand how 20 people will do it. And even with that, I don’t think it’s necessary to create any GI structures. The reasons are clear: whoever leads will decide who is right.
Of course, there were no such goals when creating the GI.

The whole point is this. One thing is a quarrel over rules or game conditions, another thing is personal conflicts. These are different things. If there was a misunderstanding with Varg-Narom, for example, then how was it resolved by eliminating the cause of the conflict - a specific rule!
If people are willing to listen to other points of view, issues are always resolved. The problem with those who don't want to listen to anyone can really be solved with the help of the GI.

Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#67 11/8/2006 9:03 AM UTC

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Governing bodies are not needed to determine who is right and who is wrong, but to inform everyone about what needs attention. Moderators, by the nature of their duties, pay attention to this, which is why I suggested including them in the Executive Committee. The 20 people who are part of the GI are generally active users who know most of the others. And, as knowledgeable people, they can act as arbitrators in disputes. It doesn't necessarily have to be all at once. The important thing is the very fact of using the GI as an arbitrator, and not as a blunt instrument.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Registered: 10/18/2006

Posts: 569

#68 11/8/2006 11:58 AM UTC

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Alexey, of course, I'm with you!
The idea of creating a feedback system is fundamentally very good; I just don't fully understand: simply rating a post as "not good" isn't enough for moderators to pay attention to it.
If that's the case, such comments should be sent to them in private messages.
And the talk about it being "done behind people's backs" and again, just nonsense! If all of this is discussed in the thread, there will be so much off-topic content that no moderator can handle it.
Creating a separate thread and including links to it in posts is certainly possible, but only if someone other than the feedback system monitors that thread.

In reply to nprf

Registered: 2/15/2006

Posts: 1,741

#69 11/8/2006 12:13 PM UTC

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nprf;44126

I wasn't hinting, I meant exactly that. Those who are aware of past disputes will understand, and I wrote it this way because I was interested in the reaction of the Tournament organizer, not the Guild itself. The question is simply, why is an application needed? Especially considering how many arguments have been made about this! Whoever plays in the Tournament is a participant! I believe it should be that way! If someone is not accepted because of this rule, how will I, as a participant, be able to look them in the eye afterward? How many people voted against the "Knight" Tournament with their feet, just because of this rule!
That's why I think there is an attempt to provoke a conflict.
I first see if I like the map, the task, and then I decide whether to play or not.

I'm just curious, dear nprf, who is the instigator of the conflict? Isn't it you?

nprf;44126

I wasn't hinting, I meant exactly that. Those who are aware of past disputes will understand, and I wrote it this way because I was interested in the reaction of the Tournament organizer, not the Guild itself.

I am not the organizer of the Knight Tournament, but a participant! How can you not understand that! Can you read posts, or not (just be honest, no offense)?

nprf;44126

The question is simply, why is an application needed? Especially considering how many arguments have been made about this! Whoever plays in the Tournament is a participant! I believe it should be that way! If someone is not accepted because of this rule, how will I, as a participant, be able to look them in the eye afterward? How many people voted against the "Knight" Tournament with their feet, just because of this rule!
That's why I think there is an attempt to provoke a conflict.
I first see if I like the map, the task, and then I decide whether to play or not.

You are the one who created all this chaos with the Knight Tournament, aren't you? And I just played, that's all! I didn't demand anything from anyone! If you were not included in the list of participants, that is a question for the TOURNAMENT ORGANIZER, directly! What do I have to do with it?

No offense:
When you become a moderator, a Tournament organizer, then we can talk about why it is this way and not another. Agreed? And for now, I will gladly listen to all your questions in the appropriate topic!

And finally, if you are playing for 200$, then what is there to talk about?

P.S. There are deadlines, rules... but they don't seem to apply to you:mad:!
Should I give examples?

I don't want to talk about this anymore!

P.S.S. Dear AlexeyPank, you didn't start this topic for this purpose!

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Единый справочник по Героям Меча и Магии

ТУРНИРЫ ПО ГЕРОЯМ 1!:smile13:

Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#70 11/8/2006 2:31 PM UTC

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Dear members of the Guild! I would like to ask everyone to express their opinion on the recent discussions: about the role and functions of the Guild, whether to discuss controversial issues openly or in private, and about many other things. I don't want to make any changes to the manifesto without receiving suggestions from as many Guild members as possible.

Registered: 6/12/2006

Posts: 1,746

#71 11/8/2006 3:31 PM UTC

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My opinion
1.The GI should NOT ALLOW conflicts on the forum (large-scale conflicts), and when resolving a conflict, the GI acts as a "third party" (in cases where the interests of the GI are affected, the "third party" is determined by the participants of the conflict)
2. Conflict points are discussed:
2.1 In the case of "user-user" — privately, with the involvement of a GI member as an arbitrator (if desired by the disputing parties)
2.2 In the case of "clan-clan" — privately between clan leaders, with the involvement of the GI as an arbitrator (Mandatory) OR via the "Peace-World" thread
2.3 In the case of "clan-user" or "user-clan" — via the "Peace-World" thread, with the GI acting as an arbitrator (if desired by the disputing parties).
2.4 If the GI has private grievances against a user\clan, the conflict is resolved in the same way as in the "user-user" or "clan-clan" cases, but the arbitrator is not a member of the GI.
3.Questions regarding internal problems of the GI are discussed PRIVATELY between members of the GI.

That's all for now. Please be lenient

"Мы не герои. Мы сильны. Мы упрямы. Мы стараемся соблюдать условия контракта. Но мы не умираем за проигравших." Костоправ

"Мы не поклонники честной игры, если ее можно избежать. Девиз Отряда – максимальная эффективность при минимальном риске." Костоправ

In reply to Tengro

Registered: 12/26/2005

Posts: 59

#72 11/8/2006 10:18 PM UTC

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I read the manifesto. I didn't quite understand it. If the goal is conflict resolution, then ignoring them and moving things to private messages doesn't solve the problem.
As for how all this will technically work—not at all. It feels like a declaration that was signed just for the sake of signing it.
And as for returning to "Knights of Honor," we shouldn't do that at all. Let it go! Everyone has drawn their own conclusions about it, and that's that. I won't even say what I think about it. I wrote it right away: here is the save, do whatever you want with it. And I haven't commented further.

But as for the ingratitude toward the benefactors providing the prize pool for Tournaments, I don't get it!!! That's already... Let everyone decide for themselves!

Added after 3 minutes

AlexeyPank;44149

I am generally against playing Heroes for money.

It's written as if Natasha took the prize pool money from you. Let's just give up prizes in the map contest and our salaries at work too!

In reply to VDV_forever

Registered: 12/24/2005

Posts: 216

#73 11/8/2006 10:42 PM UTC

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VDV_forever;44382

I am not the organizer of the Knights of Honor tournament, but a participant! How can you not understand that? Can you read posts, or not (just be honest, no offense)?

I don't want to talk about this anymore!

Sincerely, VDV_forever

The above was about the rules of the Best of the Best tournament...
Otherwise, I agree. The discussion is closed, as it is clear that everyone remains with their own opinion.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Registered: 1/30/2006

Posts: 109

#74 11/9/2006 3:27 AM UTC

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AlexeyPank;44461

Dear members of the Guild! I ask everyone to express their opinion on the recent discussions: about the role and functions of the Guild, whether to discuss controversial issues openly or privately, and about many other things. I don't want to make changes to the manifesto without receiving suggestions from as many members of the Guild as possible.

One thing I can say right away. If the conflict concerns members of the Guild, they should be removed from its composition for the duration of the issue's resolution. Disputes in this thread are pointless! A separate one is needed. This thread is only for the manifesto and what concerns its signing or changes.
However, today I see the problem in the fact that the Guild does not have any weight on the forum to make decisions. And I have already written about what I think about collective condemnations. It will be a dangerous weapon, only generating more large-scale upheavals.

Added 7 minutes later

AlexeyPank;43709

I suggest to all members of the Guild: to inform each other via private messages or through ICQ about all noticed violations of the forum rules, such as: flaming, insulting users, etc. After that, all members of the Guild express their disapproval of such posts.

First, you need to ask the person whose post you didn't like what they meant. It turns out that sometimes we don't understand what is written in Russian the way the author intended. Often, the author is willing to correct their mistakes without moderators and, moreover, without the Guild.
Let me explain my post again. When I wrote that nprf played poorly, I was evaluating his game in relation to his own abilities, and not in comparison with competitors. Maybe for them, these are good results, I don't know and I'm not judging!
If you simply disapprove, it will turn out like with Qwerty and Prorock. One disapproved, considering it off-topic, and the other wrote to the admin... And it all started.

In reply to Pred

Registered: 10/18/2006

Posts: 569

#75 11/9/2006 5:29 AM UTC

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Pred;44678

But I don't understand the ingratitude towards the benefactors who provide the prize fund for the tournaments! This is already... Let everyone decide for themselves!

Added 3 minutes later

It's written as if Natasha took money from you for the prize fund. Let's also refuse prizes in the map contest and refuse our salaries at work!

What does ingratitude towards benefactors have to do with it! If your participation in the tournament depends only on the availability of a prize fund, then I'm afraid I'll be banned for my further comments.
Need money - go and work! You need to play Heroes for the idea.
P.S. equating Heroes to gambling is such nonsense!

Regarding the Guilds, I think we need to create a separate thread for links to incorrect behavior. And discuss conflicts in this thread, all together (not just one representative from the Guilds).

In reply to Аделаида

Registered: 5/28/2006

Posts: 919

#76 11/9/2006 6:28 AM UTC

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Adelaide;44731

What does ingratitude toward benefactors have to do with this! If your participation in a tournament depends solely on the existence of a prize pool, then I fear I will be banned for my further comments.
Need money - go and work! Heroes should be played for the idea.
p.s. equating Heroes to gambling is such nonsense!

I think we've mixed up flies and cutlets again :)

Naturally, none of us play Heroes in order to become fabulously wealthy. We play Heroes because we love this game.

BUT the presence of prizes in Tournaments is a very good sign - it is a sign of the tournament's "seriousness" (that's probably the right way to put it).

I think we are simply starting to misunderstand each other again :(

Мечты сбываются, просто нужно уметь правильно мечтать.

Жизнь нужно прожить так, чтобы Боги в восторге предложили еще одну...
P.S. может мне и предложили, просто я не помню :smile44:

Registered: 6/7/2006

Posts: 2,521

#77 11/9/2006 12:10 PM UTC

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What other suggestions do you have for improving the effectiveness of the community? I only have one: to act as a united front against insults, rudeness, and similar behavior. But this requires coordinated efforts. Who can take on this difficult task?

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Heroic International – A Manifesto Auto-translated