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Posts from Balanced Units - A minimal balance mod for units

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
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Offline serovoy
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#61
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Nargott
Not in this mod.
But in some other mod?
Regarding the changes:
1) Yes, a permanent bonus to defense is more reliable than dexterity;
2) 100%, of course;
3) It's better to upgrade them than to keep nerfing them;
4) I'm not sure about this one, I would increase it;
5) It's generally difficult to get any benefit from a random chance in penetration, so let's leave it as is.
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Offline Ment
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#62
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1) Rajah Rakshasa - the presence of agility raises questions; here are two more alternatives:
- instead of agility, give defense (e.g., +7)
- don't enhance the Rajah at all, but weaken the Kshatriya (reduce health from 135 to 100)
+7 seems a bit too much... But better than agility, yes.
Maybe combine these two approaches (with different numbers)?
Dancers: 75% or 100% chance to hit?
And has anything been done with the Wind Lords? If not, then 100% is definitely the way to go.
Berserkers: is a change necessary?
Based on my experience, Berserkers, due to their stats and abilities, become less useful both in attack and, even more so, in the final stages. It would be worth balancing their health.
Nightmares: should the aura be reduced or the stats changed (lower Alt's initiative, increase the upgraded unit's damage)?
It's better to increase the upgraded unit's damage.
Vampires: is it necessary to increase the upgraded unit's damage, given that they are already used in attack?
Probably not.
Lizards: won't 100% chance to hit be too strong in attack? Maybe it's better to have 50% chance to hit and increase defense?
It's generally difficult to get any benefit from chance to hit in attack, so let it remain as is.
I wouldn't say so. 100% chance to hit is essentially an unblockable attack... Although I would also leave it as is; the regular upgraded unit's ability to ignore defense is already too strong, so it needs to be balanced.
 

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Offline Nargott
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#63
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serovoy
Within the framework of some other mod?
Regarding the changes:
1) Yes, a permanent bonus to defense is more reliable than agility;
2) 100%, of course;
3) It's better to upgrade Nightmares than to keep buffing them;
4) I'm not sure about this one, I would increase it;
5) It's generally difficult to get any benefit from a chance-based ability in combat, so let's leave it as is.
I don't feel like making any more mods right now. The appeal of this "global" mod lies in its simplicity and ease of use (a small number of changes), and for me personally, it's that it focuses on my favorite topic – units.

For other global changes, there's the much more extensive WGE mod, but it changes the entire gameplay.

Added 10 hours 53 minutes later
Rajams can be given +2 initiative and +5 defense (instead of +2 initiative and agility).
Nightmare's upgrade can be given 10-17 damage (like the Alt unit) and the aura can be left untouched.
"Ment"
I wouldn't say so. A 100% chance ability is essentially an unblockable attack... Although I would leave it as is, the defense ignore of the regular upgrade is too strong, it needs to be balanced.
Actually, with a 100% chance, the ability is much more useful than some kind of unblockable attack.
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Offline Ment
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#64
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Actually, a 100% ability is much more useful than some kind of retaliatory attack.
Yeah, that's true. It's basically a double damage on attack as an alternative (and unlike a regular doubled attack, you don't have to wait for a counterattack), and you can also capture someone along the way.
You can give the Rajahs +2 initiative and +5 defense (instead of +2 initiative and agility).
You can give the Nightmare Grimoire 10-17 damage (like the Altar) and leave the aura untouched.
Well, it seems okay...
 

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Offline wolfcat
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#65
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Maybe I'm wrong, but what if we made the Death Knight's "Dance with Death" ability trigger 75% of the time, reduced the Hunter's defense by 1, gave the Riders a 50% chance to trigger their special ability and +1 to defense, increased the Rakshasa's initiative by +2 and added +1 to defense and agility, gave the Cave Spawn agility (as per their description), and in return, gave the Pit Lords +2 to defense and attack and +5 to health, and made the Hellhounds' aura affect a range of 8 or 9, because using agility and charge isn't always possible, in my opinion, and increasing the Nightmare's damage seems a bit off.
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Offline Nargott
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#66
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Why should hunters reduce 1 defense, and how does that fundamentally change anything?
The same applies to +1 defense for lizards/rakshasa. If you're aiming for a 50% chance to hit, the defense needs to be buffed much more significantly – at least by +3-5 (up to 12-14).
The point of the mod is to make a small number of fundamental changes.
Buffing both demons and pitfiends doesn't align with the goals set for the mod (balancing the tiers).
An aura of nightmares at level 8 or even 9 won't solve anything; the difference is too large to compensate with minor adjustments (if the difference were small, there would be no need to change anything at all).

Regarding nightmares, it's likely that simply increasing the damage of the tier to 10-17 isn't enough. You could swap the damage values, changing the tier from 8-16 to 10-17, and the elite unit from 10-17 to 8-16.
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Offline Shadowsback
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#67
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Why has the Temple building in Necropolis, where the living are turned into undead, become so expensive?! Please revert it back; it would be better if dragons were expensive instead.
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Offline Utiferus
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#68
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Shadowsback
bring it back, it's better if dragons are expensive
There is no need to bring back such an exorbitant price for building the Bone Dragon dwelling. Bone Dragons are the weakest creatures of level 7. Otherwise, the balance will be disrupted again, and this mod is intended to improve it, even if only slightly.
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Offline Nargott
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#69
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Shadowsback
Why is the Temple building in Necropolis, where the living are turned into undead, so expensive now?! Please revert it, let the dragons be expensive instead.
Thank you for pointing that out; it's a bug (an unintentionally remaining change) – in one of the versions, it was made expensive, but later I reconsidered my decision because it's a gateway to creating undead.
It will be fixed in the next version of the mod.
Although... we could leave the Temple expensive but simply remove the dependency on it for building undead (so that undead can be built without this overpowered structure). Should we do that?
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Offline serovoy
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#70
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Nargott
Although... we could leave the expensive Temple, but simply remove the dependency on it for building undead units (so that undead units can be built without this overpowered building). Should we do it?
No, thank you, let it continue to provide access to undead units, but at a reasonable cost.
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Offline wolfcat
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#71
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And what if we add a wave of fire with a fire tag to the nightmares (or without a tag)? :smile04: :smile28:
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Offline SRD
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#72
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Nargott

Although... we could leave the expensive Temple, but simply remove the dependency on it for building undead units (so that undead units can be built without this overpowered building). Should we do it?
I'm all for it! - This building is extremely valuable and should be made more expensive, but without making it harder to build Dweller.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline fktifzobr
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#73
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SRD
I'm all for it! - Building is extremely valuable and should be made more expensive, but without making it too difficult to build.
I've always considered the building requirements for dwellings to be a unique feature of the Necropolis faction. All dwellings, except for skeletons, require something additional (zombies, for example, require a House of Elders), and the higher the level of the creatures, the more advanced the buildings need to be.
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Offline SRD
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#74
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I repeat:
SRD
building is extremely valuable and should be made more expensive, but without complicating the path to building a Dweller.
If we make it more expensive without changing the city development scheme, we will additionally complicate the path to building a Dweller of the Dead, which is no longer balance, but the Temple of the Underworld is extremely overpowered and I wouldn't want to leave it as it is (I was even thinking about tying the possibility of building it to having the Tear of Ashi) - in previous parts, the Necropolizer was not so overpowered because the units produced were weaker than those sent to the converter, for example, in H4, the units decreased in level by 1, i.e., for example, a third-level Ifrit turned into a second-level Wraith, and this was despite the fact that in H4 there were not 4 levels, but 7 (that is, a level decrease in H4 was a very significant weakening compared to the same level decrease in H5).
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
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Offline serovoy
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#75
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While digging through the building parameters, I noticed something: Dark Elves don't need wood to build a shipyard (I fixed it myself). Is this an oversight by the developers, or are there some objective reasons related to balance for this "discount"? I would also like to ask the same question about the shipyards of Dwarves and Orcs (the former need a city level of 15 to build one, while the latter only need level 9, and not the "traditional level 12").
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