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Posts from [POLL] Who is to blame, and what should be done?

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Who is to blame, and what should we do?
90 voters
Multiple choice Public votes Closed 2016-06-15
This poll is closed.
Nobody
11.1% 10 votes
Lizard, because I bought the game
37.8% 34 votes
Redwhite, because he sold the game
34.4% 31 votes
Dirty, because he accepted the result of the game
18.9% 17 votes
All others who knew but did not prevent it
18.9% 17 votes
Ayeve, because he DIDN’T sell the game to Hell to restore balance and justice
11.1% 10 votes
Do nothing
12.2% 11 votes
Deprive Lizard of his title
18.9% 17 votes
Ban Redwait from the AK
36.7% 33 votes
Include in the CIS regulations a ban on match-fixing and create a mechanism to monitor this
44.4% 40 votes
Don’t pair winners with losers
13.3% 12 votes
I don’t have an opinion; I want to see the voting results.
15.6% 14 votes
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#48
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That's exactly what I'm talking about! No one can change anything now. But many will still remember it. So, let's all think together about how to prevent this from happening again.
Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

In reply to Vigo
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#49
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Hello everyone, I haven't posted in any threads about this event for a while, but the amount of negativity directed at the participants, judges, and Lizard and Reddit is just excessive.
Regarding the issue:
1. I watched the game between Reddit and Lizard from start to finish because Reddit was sitting to my left, and after my turn, Reddit's turn usually began, so I know the game very well.
Furthermore, until the battle ended, in which Lizard didn't even lose, the battle wasn't over because he could have bought his way out, continued fighting, and left Reddit's troops in a terrible state, after which they would run around and cast spells at each other, dealing 5-10 damage to each other. In that case, the game would have continued for a very long time.
2. As I mentioned earlier, I was sitting nearby. After Kostya stood up and left, shaking Reddit's hand, I thought that was it. But the next day, after breakfast, while in the streamers' room with Reddit, I learned that Lizard was declared the winner.
3. I think everyone who was there would agree that Kostya deserved the victory. Therefore, what happened was nothing more than a coincidence because Reddit was one of the contenders for the gold, but he lost all motivation after a disappointing defeat in the first round. And this, not something else (in my opinion), is what led to the current situation, which we are now discussing.
4. The system should be FDE (First Defeated Elimination) with a large number of free slots in the first round so that each player has a chance to win the tournament, even after losing in the first round. In that case, Reddit would definitely play to win.
5. And furthermore, Lizard shouldn't have played against Reddit (a loser) in the second round (just because that's how it was drawn). With all due respect to all the participants, Reddit was the strongest player among the losers after the first round.
6. I spoke with many participants about the tournament system, and I agree that there was a lack of time and other issues. Therefore, I think Kirill's desire to develop a set of rules and create a stricter schedule is correct, and I fully support it.
7. And perhaps the last thing: DO NOT JUDGE, AND YOU WILL NOT BE JUDGED!!! And if anyone has the right to judge the players, it is only the PARTICIPANTS OF THE TOURNAMENT (who may have been indirectly affected by this), but not the masses of people who were not there, did not pay the entry fee, did not participate in the games, but consider their opinion important enough to post it on 20 pages in 2 threads (nonsense).

P.S. As a person who was there, participated, and saw everything with my own eyes (specifically the games, the tension, and the atmosphere), I believe the matter is closed. Lizard is the CHAMPION, and most importantly, I repeat, he deserved this title this year!
icq: 222291470
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#50
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You respect him, and it gives the impression that the CIS championship is some kind of Masonic lodge.
heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
In reply to Juristis
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#51
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Juristis
Seeing you here gives the impression that the CIS championship is some kind of Masonic lodge.
Come and join, entry is free!
icq: 222291470
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#52
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Yes, by the way! We need more lawyers.
Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

In reply to Freeman
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#53
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freesha
Come and join, admission is free!
Exactly, and if you don't come and join, you don't have a right to vote. How funny.
heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
In reply to Juristis
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#54
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Juristis
Exactly, and if you don't show up and join, you don't have a right to vote. It's funny.
Yes, exactly, because it turns into a situation like this:
I'm building a house, and you've never been to the construction site, but you're saying that the house is bad and poorly made. But how can you assess the quality or a particular situation when you only hear about it from other people who haven't been there, haven't seen it, and haven't heard about it, and yet they all feel obligated to express their opinion and completely criticize it.
"Don't wade into the water if you don't know the ford." (Russian proverb).
icq: 222291470
In reply to Freeman
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#55
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freesha
Exactly, because it turns into a situation like this:
I'm building a house, and you've never been to a construction site, but you're saying the house is terrible and poorly made. But how can you assess the quality or a particular situation when you only hear about it from people who haven't been there, haven't seen it, and haven't heard about it, yet they all feel obligated to express their opinion and completely criticize it.
"Don't wade into the water if you don't know the ford." (Russian proverb).

What house, what water, what ford? You yourself write that you lost, shook hands (respectfully acknowledged defeat), went away, thought about it, and offered money for the win (respectful and honest, in your opinion?).
In reply to Freeman
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#56
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freesha
Exactly, because it turns into a situation like this:
I'm building a house, and you've never been to a construction site, but you're saying the house is bad and poorly made. But how can you assess the quality or a particular situation when you only hear about it from people who haven't been there, haven't seen it, and haven't heard about it, and yet they all feel obligated to express their opinion and completely condemn it.
"Don't wade into the water if you don't know the ford." (Russian proverb).
But can't fixed matches and violations of fair play be assessed differently? You yourselves, by trying to justify the players, are only making things worse for yourselves and them. It's turning into a vicious cycle. The attitude towards rules and sportsmanship is evident. And then you wonder why many don't consider your championship a serious event.
heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
In reply to Heroin_HP
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#57
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Heroin_HP
What kind of argument is that, comparing a house to water with a ford? You yourself wrote that you lost, shook hands (respectfully acknowledged the defeat), and then offered money for the win (respectful and honest, according to you?).
Just understand this simple thing: you can't divide everything into black and white; the situation is quite ambiguous because there are many factors for and against.
The result of the situation is that all participants in the event agreed that it would be this way and not another, because read the posts from the tournament participants; no one is writing posts like: deprive one of the championship, put the second in a circle of condemnation, etc.
Everyone who participated was satisfied, and regarding the criticism and trolling about the 21st Arch in the mine, the guys already got their fill.
icq: 222291470
In reply to Freeman
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#58
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freesha
Just understand one simple thing: you can't divide everything into black and white; the situation is quite ambiguous because there are many factors for and against.
The result of the situation is that all participants in the event agreed that it would be this way and not another, because read what the participants of the tournament write – no one is posting things like: deprive one of the championship, put the second in a circle of condemnation, etc.
Everyone who participated was satisfied, and regarding the condemnation and trolling about the 21st Arch in the mine, they got enough of it.
According to this logic, many people could have bought the games and won, so it's up to you who the champion is; you were nodding along there.
In reply to Heroin_HP
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#59
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What, haven't I commented yet? That's strange... considering all the food... :smile04: Of all the opinions expressed, I find Dirty's point of view to be the closest to my own. Perhaps because he looked at the situation from the perspective of a judge, and I look at it the same way. Namely, when considering different options, I first assess their feasibility. And this perspective immediately dismisses any attempts to control match-fixing. Because those who want to make a deal will make a deal, and if they have the sense not to blab about it, no one will find out, and even if they do find out, they won't be able to prove it. In other words, an infraction that cannot be controlled is best not considered an infraction. This saves time and nerves. However, this does not mean that players have the moral right to talk about it openly. If they've been caught, they should deal with the consequences. Therefore, I believe that public condemnation is perfectly justified, but administrative actions such as banning or expulsion are not. I remember having my own experience of selling a tournament game at a club tournament. True, it was a bit of a joke, because I sold a losing game, what an expert in diplomacy I am! But everyone was aware of it, the judge was too, and no one objected. And yes, in my opinion, the main mistake was made in the last round - after Aive's victory, he should have been explained the political necessity of selling the game to Hell. It is unlikely to be reasonable to expect him to figure this out on his own, but the judges and organizers could have easily figured it out, they've been doing this for years. The idea here is not too complicated - since the negative fallout has already begun, it would have been necessary to minimize its size as much as possible and restore justice, at least partially. Then the champion would have been more legitimate, and less mess would have been created. Yes, there would still be some mess, but less. However, they didn't sense the moment... P.S. In the nomination "why did Vic create this poll," Redwhite and Dust won: smile54:
In reply to Wicc
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#60
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Wicc


Well, and yes, in my opinion, the main mistake was made in the last round - after Aive's victory, he should have been explained the political necessity of selling the game to Hell. Expecting him to figure it out on his own is hardly reasonable, but the judges and organizers could have certainly figured it out, they've been doing this for years.

All that remains is to explain to Hell the political necessity of buying the game from Aive. Frankly, I didn't expect to see such nonsense from you.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
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#61
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Noom
All that remains is to explain to Hell the political necessity of buying the game from Ive. Honestly, I didn't expect to see such nonsense from you.
But how could you not expect it... didn't you see my vote in the poll?

Yes, Hell also needed to be explained to. Yes, he might not have agreed. But then, at least, one could say, "I did what I could."

If the problem is specifically with selling it for money (some people have complexes about this), then one could have offered a bottle of beer and a place in the front row of the audience, as a gift. Ive himself said that he was rooting for Hell.

In general, it's solvable, if there was an awareness of the necessity. What happened in reality is clearly worse.
In reply to Wicc
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#62
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Wicc
Well, and yes, in my opinion, the main mistake was made in the last round - after Aive's victory, it was necessary to explain to him the political necessity of selling the game to Hell. Expecting him to figure it out on his own is hardly reasonable, but the judges and organizers could certainly have thought about it; they've been doing this for years.

Ha-ha-ha))))) Well, this is a masterpiece!!! :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того