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Posts from The fourth stage of the "Van Kanighem" tournament.

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In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;89681
Thanks, that puts my mind at ease.
Only thing is, in controversial battles, one could demand intermediate saves instead of settling for a description like "my morale triggered 56 times in a row" :smile03:
There are no controversial battles in 4. They are either actually completed or they aren't. In combat in 4, you can save, and this is NOT FORBIDDEN ANYWHERE on any offline resource. It follows that if I need it to, my morale will trigger 100 times in a row via load/save. That's the basis for fighting a CD with a fairy from an external dwelling using morale — I wrote about all this in the tournament concerns :) But here the external dwelling is forbidden. Therefore, a fairy, whether with morale or without, won't take down a CD. But there are other tricks some units have that allow you to do TERRIBLE things on the battlefield via load/save ON LEGAL GROUNDS!
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This implies that if I need to, my morality will kick in and work 100 times in a row with load/save.
But we can request several saves from this battle, which means I'll have to get all 100 morality points during the playthrough, and that's a challenge.
But some units have other tricks that allow you to do TERRIBLE things on the battlefield using load/save, and that's perfectly LEGAL!
You're trying to scare everyone.
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;89706
But some units have other features that allow you to do TERRIBLE things on the battlefield through save-loading, and all within the rules!
So, if hiding is prohibited, does that mean the Minotaur becomes the strongest unit? Because you can argue that it was just lucky and deflected the damage n times in a row... is that right?

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;89711
But you can request several saves from this battle, which means you'll have to get all 100 morale points during the playthrough, and that's a challenge.
What does "request" mean? I don't keep 100 saves for each battle. It's not specified in the rules. At most, you'll get a save from the beginning, middle, and end of the battle. In my opinion, three saves are enough for a battle: before the attack, which will always result in the same landscape; the beginning of the battle, to see the troop arrangement; and the save from the moment the battle is considered looped. What is a looped moment in a battle, read in the topic "Tournament Troubles." Then, when they conduct the battle, sometimes, to save space and speed up the Heroes 4 program, they overwrite the same save and load from it, etc. The fewer saves in the saves directory, the faster the load and save process. Also, look at how much the saves from Heroes 4 weigh.
Your verification method doesn't work. At most, you can request 3-4 saves from one battle, and there are dozens of battles. Will you request all the saves from all the battles?
This is not serious. But what does it matter? This battle can actually be won; what complaints can there be?

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Kyle;89718
i.e., if ambushing is prohibited, does that make the Minotaur the strongest unit? Because you can say that he was lucky n times in a row and deflected the damage... is that right?
Well, almost. But if there are many units, he needs an open ambush. It is allowed. But if the Minotaur is attacked by several units and a couple of archer units, he needs to deflect the attack, say, 4 times in a row from one save to the next. I think such a battle is theoretically possible, but not in reality. In reality, you can still fight when the Minotaur needs to deflect a maximum of two attacks in a row from one save to the next!! But since there are no rules on this, I don't know, maybe someone will find a brazen player whose Minotaur will always deflect 3-4 attacks in a row from one save to the next throughout the battle.
On the other hand, the Fairy still remains strong against slow units. But let's not forget that the Fairy can be sped up, the enemy can be slowed down, wings can be cut off from flying units, and arrows can be lured away from archers - then it's easier with Fairies than with Minotaurs. And ambushing is not needed here, but it may be necessary to choose the right landscape.
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Indeed, it's interesting how the verification will be carried out. I also didn't make 5-10 saves for a single battle. Although, I can provide a detailed description, day by day and hour by hour ;).
In my opinion, in this tournament, a description of the playthrough is mandatory for each player. Otherwise, it will be difficult to understand.
P.S. if cheats are indeed not detected, then at least everyone should know this, so that everyone is on equal footing.
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In reply to AlexeyPank
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AlexeyPank;89724
Indeed, it's interesting how the verification will be carried out. I also didn't save 5-10 times during one battle. Although, I can provide a detailed description, day by day and hour by hour ;).
In my opinion, in this tournament, a description of the playthrough is mandatory for each player. Otherwise, it will be impossible to understand.
P.S. if cheats are really not detected, then let everyone know so that everyone is on a level playing field.
Verification will be based solely on descriptions. And go back to the tournament discussion thread and vote for the rule that after a battle loop, everyone can officially use cheats :) That is, enter the code at the moment of the battle when your units are no longer taking losses, not receiving damage, not spending resources, and the enemy is slowly dying, and you need to grind for another thousand rounds to finally kill him :)
I also indicated the set of saves needed for verification:
save at the end of the day
save before the attack, from which your battle map is generated if the map plays an important role in the battle
save at the beginning of the battle - when almost no one has moved yet - to see the initial setup
save at the moment the battle loops
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for starters, this is enough :) but you also need saves - before the hero receives a new skill and before taking artifacts and scrolls from caches
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This does not mean that all of them must be requested from you for verification. They can check selectively, for example, one battle and the acquisition of some artifact. Therefore, to make life easier for himself and others, the player should have all the specified saves available. He doesn't know which ones will be requested. + a description of the leaders. This is quite enough for a correct verification of the playthrough!
Why take a description from a player who completed the game in a very long time. There's no need to bother him. Unless he wants to.
In reply to IronAxe
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IronAxe;89719
But if a Minotaur is attacked by several units and a couple of archer squads, then it needs to successfully deflect attacks four times in a row between saves. I think such a battle is theoretically possible, but not in reality. In reality, you can still fight when the Minotaur needs to deflect a maximum of two attacks in a row between saves! But since there are no rules on this, well, I don't know, maybe someone will find a brazen player whose Minotaur will always deflect 3-4 attacks between saves throughout the entire battle :)
On the other hand, the Fairy still remains a strong unit against slow enemies. But let's not forget that the Fairy can be sped up, the enemy can be slowed down, wings can be cut off from flying units, and arrows can be lured away from archers - then it's easier with Fairies than with Minotaurs. And no ambush is needed here, but it might be necessary to choose the right terrain.
Yeah... and there are also mages with poison... i.e., one mage poisons a crowd, and another, a fast unit, runs away from them... until the end of time... no, that's absurd...

P.S. poor Alan, I don't envy him...

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
In reply to Kyle
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Kyle;89732
Yeah... and there are also mages with poison... that is, one mage poisons a whole group, and another, a fast unit, runs away from them... until the end of time... no, that's absurd.
Well, no one plays that way :) Mages are slow. That's why there are death knights who already have poison in their spellbook when you buy them. There are poison potions, there are artifacts like the poisoned arrow, and there's also the Serpent's Eye ring, or something like that. A hero with a certain combination of skills can gain the ability to make his weapon poisoned, and when he attacks or shoots, he poisons the enemy - then there are dizzying races for n hours, depending on the size of the poisoned group :) That's why Heroes 4 also has its own charm - there are many combinations for completing the game, many different tricks. And there are freezing potions, and ice demons, and many other things you can come up with :)
Kyle;89732

P.S. poor Alan, I don't envy him...
What's so scary about it? I wrote above what needs to be done. And if there are suspicious battles regarding the legitimacy of the playthrough or some other problem, we'll all figure it out together :) But let's not engage in sadomasochism and let's not break our keyboards and mice in these battles :)
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Your verification method doesn't work. At most, you can request 3-4 saves from a single battle, and there are dozens of battles. Are you going to request all saves from every battle?
The verification method works perfectly well. You can request a save before the battle (the map), before the loop, in the middle of the loop, and before the end of the loop (the fight). The question is whether they will actually do it.
Well, yes, and what does it give? This battle can actually be won – what complaints could there be?
Personally, I have no complaints (I used the ballista with pleasure, but I would be even happier if I could just enter a code and not load the game).

I would really like to hear
In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;89746
The check works, and it works well. You can request a save before the battle (the map), before the loop starts, in the middle of the loop, and before the loop ends (the fight). The question is whether they will do it.
I already said - the middle and the end can be "drawn" using any available method - the easiest is ArtMoney. If it's done correctly, you won't be able to tell how the saves were obtained! Because in the middle and at the end, nothing changes in your troops, and only the enemy suffers losses!!
Fireball;89746

Personally, I have no complaints (I used the ballista-killing method with pleasure, but I would be even happier if I could just enter a code and not load the game).
In the third game, you can't - they'll write at the end of the game that you're a cheater, and that's it :) You'll have to prove what you did, and it's a pain. I'm talking about cheat codes. I haven't tested other methods in the third game.
Fireball;89746

I would really like to hear the verdict of the organizers.
On all resources, this is prohibited without any explanation, and they can even ban you for talking about it. Here, they will probably adhere to generally accepted traditions, although there is no logic in this. But at least they don't ban you for talking about it :) That's why I like it here - democracy and freedom of speech. I might be able to get my ideas across to someone. And I don't consider them CHEATING!!!
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I will answer everything at once, and possibly in parts...
After all, at the moment, participating in tournaments is mainly a pleasure for the players themselves. Since there are no serious prizes yet. Therefore, I really hope that when playing for themselves, players will try to avoid unfair tactics.

Now, regarding the looped battles.
I also indicated the set of saves needed for checks:
save at the end of the day
save before the attack, from which you get your battle map if the terrain plays an important role in the battle
save at the beginning of the battle - when almost no one has moved yet - to see the setup
save at the moment the battle loops
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this is enough for now, but you also need saves - before the hero gains a new skill and before taking artifacts and scrolls from caches
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I also think that these saves are enough for the check.
If there is no "cheater" message at the end, and the walkthrough is passable for any player, then I don't see any reason to overload the check. Anyway, as IronAxe rightly said, if something happens, we'll all figure it out together.

Now, I wish you good luck and don't break your mice too much ;-)
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
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Dear Alan, I would like to know if playthroughs where several Minotaurs defeat armies that don't use magic will be accepted (and under what conditions). This is possible due to their ability to block attacks and their large number of re-rolls.
In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;89775
Dear Alan, I would like to know if a walkthrough will be accepted (and under what conditions) in which several minotaurs wipe out armies that do not deal magic damage, which is possible due to their ability to block attacks and a high number of re-saves.
For this tournament, let's agree that if your minotaur manages to deflect a MAXIMUM of two consecutive hits between two saves in a battle—then the battle is realistic. However, if three or more hits are dealt to it between two saves in a battle, then the battle is unrealistic, although theoretically one could win that too :) Because for an entire battle, every time from save to save, the minotaur's block always triggering three or more times IN A ROW!! Well, it's just not realistic :)
Later we will add this to the rules or discuss a more acceptable option, although this one is great too :)
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Let's agree on this for the current tournament: if, in a battle, your Minotaur manages to block a maximum of two consecutive attacks between two saves, then the battle is considered valid. However, if three or more attacks are inflicted on him between two saves, the battle is considered invalid, even though it is theoretically possible to win it. Because it's unrealistic to conduct an entire battle where the Minotaur consistently blocks three or more times in a row between each save!
We will later include this in the rules or discuss a more acceptable option, although this one is pretty good.
Personally, I would ban Minotaurs in offline mode altogether (prohibit building them in the castle, adding them to the army, etc.). This should be done right from the start of the game.
In reply to Fireball
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Fireball;89815
Personally, I would ban Minotaurs in offline mode altogether (prohibit building them in the castle, attaching them, etc.). This should be done even in the starting save.
These issues have already been discussed, especially in places where stashing is allowed – there are still many other units to ban. And even with stashing. And it's not just about Minotaurs. Fairies remain a problem. And what about poison magic, artifacts, and a hero class specializing in poison? There are many other things that would remain. Peasants against Dragons :) Cycle the battle with Minotaurs and see how many hits they take between two saves. If you can manage within the limit,

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