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Offline solmir2003
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Posts: 64
#228
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even if you enable the cheat code for infinite turns, I meant that it's not possible to complete the game in 15 days – you need to accumulate creatures somewhere, and somewhere you need to wait for the AI to take its turn.
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Offline WSW
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#229
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Exactly. I mean exploiting the infinite turn bug. With this bug, you can actually complete a map quickly... although I think it only takes about 20+ days. Exploiting the turn points bug: Approach the boat, remove the rider's boots and gloves, get into the boat barefoot. Put on the boots and gloves and disembark. Repeat as many times as you want. Note that there is a limit: overflowing the variable will cancel the turn points. Therefore, after the 10th disembarkation, it is better to save. The mana point limit is bypassed as follows: near the water is the city of Griffinrock. There, we hire a hero, increase the turn points, visit all available upgrades, and then the well, and we have a ready-made combat character who can further advance the storyline. When he runs out of mana, just hire another one. In my opinion, it's boring and uninteresting, since the enemy's troops mainly appear through events.

Added 4 minutes later
Marmot, I hope the latest version of the guide will help you with your next attempt to complete the map. There will be no continuation for a long time, unfortunately, due to lack of time.
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Offline Pastoral
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#230
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bolotnik

I would like to mention one thing that made me replay the game so that I could prepare a hero from the tavern for one single battle!
THE BATTLE WITH DEIS for the diamond gates, before freeing Vael and fighting Peplokryl.
Deis has a stack of several thousand minotaurs, and when I arrived, he had almost 15,000 of them, but that's not the main thing; the important thing is that it's all on CURSED LAND, which means spells above level 1 are prohibited!! We don't have ballistics, and we don't have enough troops to take down 15,000 minotaurs before breaking through the defenses....
Therefore, I found only one solution in this situation: hire Uland in the first few days (a Rampart hero, specializing in healing, with starting Wisdom and Ballistics), teach him shooting, water, earth, and defense, and increase all his available stats as the game progresses (essentially, he was a booster and a support for the main hero).
Then, in the battle with Deis, I broke through his defenses in an hour: I equipped the Might of the Dragon Father to prevent the troops from attacking with ranged attacks, bought expendable ranged units (lizards, orcs, cyclops, gremlins) that I wouldn't mind losing, a sniper bow, a wagon, and a stack of a couple of dozen crossbowmen for the gate blockade (we don't play with them, so it doesn't matter if we lose them).
In the end: catapult - defense. Crossbowmen - to the gate (the towers attack the crossbowmen, which is beneficial because ranged attacks are more important there), and then I kept pounding the minotaurs...
It took a very long time, but I defeated Deis...
I can't figure out how to beat him without losses, especially with Mogrein: in 2-4 rounds, there's a 100% chance of a breach in the wall, the minotaurs come out and inflict heavy losses that can't be resurrected, but this way, I can win without losing even one unit from the stacks I used, although it takes a very long time, and the experience goes to the wrong hero...
If other battles when attacking a castle are won with magic, then I think the only option here is a hero with ballistics (controlling the catapult).
Hello everyone!
I'm currently playing through the Paragon map, it's an amazing thing, kudos to the author and lots of good karma. I couldn't help but register when I saw this post.
I stopped with Mogrein one tile before Deis's castle. I used disguise, and he attacked me himself :smile26:. In an open field, he can be easily defeated - just put on the Cursed Armor to slow him down and take the Sphere of Inhibition (red orb) so that he doesn't cast spells or try to haste. That's it. Then, just run away from him with a flying unit across the field, and shoot him down with ranged units.
Another point: it's worth equipping the Spirit of Inhibition so that his morale doesn't suddenly drop.
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Offline bolotnik
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#233
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Pastoral
Hello everyone!
I'm currently playing through the Paragon map, and it's amazing. Huge respect to the author, and may they have lots of good karma. I couldn't resist registering after seeing this post.
I stopped Mogrein before Deis, one tile before the castle. I used Disguise, and he attacked on his own :smile26:. In an open field, he's easily defeated – just equip the Cursed Armor to slow him down and take the Sphere of Inhibition (red orb) to prevent him from casting spells or trying to Haste. That's it... Then, just run away from him with a flying unit across the field, and shoot him down with ranged attacks.
Another tip: it's worth equipping the Spirit of Inhibition so that his morale doesn't suddenly drop.
Yes, the author is a genius, creating a magnificent and stunning masterpiece! There are many ways to play through it; I've suggested one that isn't the best, but it's very reliable.

Added 3 minutes later
I didn't even think that after my description of how to play through the Paragon map, there would be such a lively discussion and so many people trying it out
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Offline Marmot
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Posts: 2,132
#234
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bolotnik
I didn't even think that after my description of the Paragon map walkthrough, there would be such a lively discussion and mass playthrough.
On HeroesPortal, the map is confidently in the top best, and it also has the most comments. It definitely sparked interest in offline gameplay. Exceptionally detailed story and geography, vivid characters with their own personalities and destinies, etc. But the difficulty is also high...
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
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Offline solmir2003
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#235
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Pastoral – as mentioned above, the simplest tactic is to use Cyclops, along with all the artifacts you mentioned. If you start building it a day before reaching the castle, Morgraine won't be able to gain momentum, and we don't want to lose that many movement points, do we?
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Offline bolotnik
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#236
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Marmot
On HeroesPortal, the map is confidently in the top best, and it also has a lot of comments. It definitely sparked interest in the offline mode. Exceptionally detailed story and geography, bright characters with their own personalities and destinies, etc. But the difficulty is also high...
certainly, the author almost managed to hide the stupidity of the AI.
It would be interesting to read the author's tips on how to create a map so that the AI not only behaves as the author wants, according to the plot and the map's design, but also creates difficulties for the player, masking the main shortcomings of the offline mode (the AI's stupidity).

Added 24 minutes ago
WSW
That's absolutely right. I mean exploiting the infinite turn bug. With this bug, you can actually complete the map quickly... Although, in my opinion, it will still take 20+ days.
When he runs out of mana, just hire another one. In my opinion, it's boring and uninteresting, because the enemy's troops mainly appear through events.
the thing is, I tried this approach (it's much easier and simpler, of course), but honestly, it's more enjoyable to play fairly.
well, I think that in the end, it will take much more time, far from 20+, but it will definitely be significantly faster than a fair and normal playthrough.
1. with the Swamp faction, you may have to wait for the growth to continue in order to capture cities.
2. there, we may not have enough mana for some battles, and we may also not have enough money to buy back troops and heroes (but with infinite turns, you can, of course, cheat, but in the end, everything is still limited by gold and mana).
3. when we send the main hero to the last part of the game - to attack the Devastator, then our movement points are reset, and then there will be no way to accumulate movement points or have someone else come to help attack the Devastator on the cursed land, i.e., there you will have to go through everything with the forces that you have, and you still need to gather and buy them
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Offline Rince
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Posts: 80
#237
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bolotnik
undoubtedly, the author almost managed to hide the stupidity of the AI.
It would be interesting to read the author's tips on how to create a map so that the AI not only behaves as the author intended, according to the plot and design of the map, but also creates difficulties for the player, masking the main shortcomings of the offline mode (the AI's stupidity).
Besides giving the AI practically unlimited resources, an advantage in army size and stats, and artifacts that greatly influence combat tactics (the Amulet of Anti-Blindness, the Cloak of Negation, etc.)?
Give it a certain amount of freedom, but at the same time, clearly limit it, because the more freedom it has, the more likely it is to do something wrong or simply get stuck somewhere. The latter, by the way, could not be avoided. In the first version of the map, much was based on the game time (a technique borrowed from mapmaker Hans C); in the second, it was based on the player's actions, which required a lot of "magic" with modified objects and many, many tests. To limit the AI's movement, disguised border gates were used again, and, I confess, I now find it very difficult to remember which enemies have access to which gates. To prevent the AI, which is initially confined to its territory, from "freezing," windmills help. In some cases, standard enemy behavior settings helped. Finally, all actively operating AIs have the entire map open from the very beginning, but this did not always lead to the expected result. For example, I expected that in the final stage of the game, the orange AI would head straight for the Diamond Spire, where it could take the Orb of Permanence and win, which would correspond to the plot. But no.
In the end, you need to test and test again, see how the AI plays on its own at different difficulty levels, where it goes, and who it attacks.
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Offline Pastoral
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#238
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I encountered the following problem: while playing a map and finishing it earlier than expected (without using cheats to recalculate turns), I captured a Fendragon about a month and a half into the game and defeated the Beasts before their scouts were supposed to reach me. I discovered that the Beast, which was waiting on the eastern islands in the sea, had self-destructed because all of its castles had been captured.
This was unfortunate because it had the Ring of Life – the last ingredient needed to create the Elixir of Life. And then I had to fight Yogabos and, most importantly, the hippogryphs in the antimagic garrison – without the elixir.
But that's okay...
The real annoyance was when I found out that this Beast, out of sadness and grief that its home castles had been captured, killed one of the mages who was waiting for me in the east. And I had to save up, sell resources, to get to the wizards.
Maybe it would have made sense to hide each of the 10 mages behind a red tent so that no one would eat them before their time?
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Offline Rince
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#239
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The possibility of losing 1-2 mages was intended from the start, and specifically, you could reach that mage earlier, just like you could reach the swamp hero. There seem to be plenty of rings for the elixir on the map.
Oh, how they mangle the names of the heroes!
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Offline bolotnik
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#240
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Pastoral

Perhaps it would have made sense to hide each of the 10 mages behind a red tent so that no one would eat them before their time?
But the author's idea is precisely that you should hurry and manage to collect them all, and there is a risk of losing several archmages. I think that if you put them in an inaccessible place, then what would be the point and interest of the quest?
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Offline tr[NEC]yo
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Posts: 71
#241
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All this discussion about the Paragon map reminds me of the situation with the First Blood map. It would be better to create a separate thread and discuss it there, with a step-by-step walkthrough and points to pay attention to in the header. After all, this thread was not created for discussion, but rather to explain why the author designed it that way, etc.
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Offline Pastoral
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#242
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Dear Rince, while analyzing your map in the editor, I noticed the following. In one of the quest guards near Ivinson's castle, it says that Ghashra is ready to help Vael and is waiting for him near Ghashrashor. In the editor, she is indeed waiting (in my game, I killed her a long time ago because I couldn't bring myself to give away 30 archers), and her name is Brissa. She tells the hero to go to the source, etc. At the source, there is indeed a quest guard who can give 1000 hydras, but he is waiting for a player named Bron, although logically, he should be waiting for Ghashra, i.e., Brissa. Could you please confirm if this is intentional? Thank you!
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Offline bolotnik
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#243
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Pastoral
Dear Rince, while analyzing your map in the editor, I noticed the following. In one of the quest guards near Ivinson's castle, it says that Ghashra is ready to help Wael and is waiting for him near Ghashrashor. In the editor, she is indeed waiting (in my playthrough, I killed her a long time ago because I couldn't bring myself to give away 30 archers), and her name is Brissa. She tells the hero to go to the source, etc. There is indeed a quest guard at the source who can give 1000 hydras, but he is waiting for a player named Bron, although he should be waiting for Ghashra, i.e., Brissa. Could you please tell me if this is intentional?
Thank you!
I will try to answer on behalf of the author of this map

1. Ghashru cannot be killed because she is not in the game; she is in prison behind the castle of the last main lord of the swamp creatures.

2. It seems that Ghashra in prison, the very one and only, is indeed "Bron," but the hero's image is "Lacuss," and the prison is disguised as a hydra pond.

3. Ghashra is released at the very end, when the orange Necropolis invades. Wael jumps into the portal in the final part of the game, and then we free the hero; access to him is not available earlier.

4. Brissa is a completely different hero and has nothing to do with Ghashra.

5. Ghashra is just a name for a hero, and who he is in the editor doesn't matter
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Offline Rince
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#244
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Unfortunately, the answer is simpler: I really forgot to change the quest requirements when I was making version 2.0. I don't remember why I changed its class in the first place. But now, under certain circumstances, you can fight her. However, as I've been told, the battle is too difficult and the reward is almost insignificant.
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