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#91
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dwp1970


Stannis-Mannis disappeared about two or three weeks ago, and I haven't seen him since. If necessary, I can provide the exact date when I last saw him; I have it recorded. Therefore, I don't have the opportunity to start or play this game at the moment. It's likely that the judges will need to make a decision.
The same thing happened; I don't think it will be possible to play with him now. He hasn't been online on ICQ for two weeks and hasn't written or responded to messages.
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#92
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chudo_ud0
dexterwar-JonnyP
Necropolis - Elves

Added 1 hour 49 minutes ago
How will the places in the group be determined in case of a tie in wins and losses? What does it mean by this rule: "personal result of the game with players from opposing factions" if the top 4 are bad and the top 4 are good, then how will the personal result be calculated if no one in the group has played against each other? In the quarter-finals and semi-finals, is it 1 match? Is the score reset, so in the final there will be 2 remaining races playing, and then in the 3rd decisive match, all races can be played again?
We will determine the place by drawing lots.
The score is calculated for the quarter-finals, semi-finals, from the full list, and we play no more than 1 time for each of the factions.
The score is calculated for the final from the full list for each game.
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#93
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KillAndAction
Let's determine the placement by drawing lots.
For the future, it would be better to introduce something more adequate than a simple coin toss, for example, the Berger coefficient (which has been used for a long time in the league to determine placement when the results are equal). A coin toss is an anachronism. In the end, the luckier one wins, not the strongest.
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#94
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chudo_ud0
For the future, it would be better to introduce something more adequate, rather than simply flipping a coin, for example, the Berger coefficient (which has long been used in the League to determine places when the scores are equal).
In this case, the specified coefficient is not entirely suitable, as players within good/evil factions do not play against each other...
chudo_ud0
Flipping a coin is an anachronism. In the end, the winner is not the strongest, but the luckiest.
I disagree: flipping a coin only affects the choice of opponent.
And the strongest will win anyway.
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#95
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I understand that only one point of view is accepted here. Okay, a coin toss is the most balanced way to determine the winner of a group.
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#96
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chudo_ud0
I understand that only one point of view is accepted here, okay, a coin toss is the most balanced way to determine the winner of a group.
Here's a simple example.
The draw determined that you will play against Alexeagle. What is the probability that Alexeagle will be the winner? Correct, close to zero.
The draw determined that you will play against, for example, Stefandmy. What is the probability that Stefandmy will be the winner? Somewhere around 30%.
The draw determined that you will play against, for example, BOLIVAR, Boez. What is the probability that BOLIVAR, Boez will be the winner? Apparently, about 40%.
Or against Will/Sir_Moz/Ekzekutor. The outcome of the game (win/loss) is equally likely (50/50).
So, where is the role of the coin toss here?
The strongest will win anyway...

And then the draw will only be applied among those players who have an equal number of points and the same parameters:
- personal result of the game with players from opposing Factions;
- number of wins;
- number of draws;
- number of losses.
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#97
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Personally, I don't mind a random draw if everything else is the same. After all, it's just a game. And the strongest will truly win.

P.S. Well, what can you do if the format is like this and the odds don't matter. In the grand scheme of things, this question could have arisen at the very beginning of the tournament, but since it didn't occur to anyone, it probably wasn't important.
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#98
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KillAndAction
Here's a simple example.
The draw determines that you're playing against Alexeagle. What's the probability that Alexeagle will be the winner? Correct, it's close to zero.
The draw determines that you're playing against, for example, Stefandmy. What's the probability that Stefandmy will be the winner? Somewhere around 30%.
The draw determines that you're playing against, for example, BOLIVAR, Boez. What's the probability that BOLIVAR, Boez will be the winner? Probably around 40%.
Or against Will/Sir_Moz/Ekzekutor. The outcome of the game (win/loss) has an equal chance (50/50).
So, where's the role of the coin toss here?
The strongest will still win...

The role of the coin toss is simple: in the example you provided, you might play against Alexeagle and, in your opinion, have a 100% chance (let's say 70%) of advancing. The other player will then play against a stronger opponent and have a lower chance (let's say 60%) of advancing. Consequently, you'll have a better chance of advancing further. The difference between 1st and 2nd place will be those famous 10%. So, a simple coin toss immediately gives someone a 10% advantage. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but this rule will apply to a large number of tournaments. I believe this coefficient can work because if you beat players A and B, who ultimately take 1st and 2nd place in their group, that's better than your opponent, who scores the same number of points as you but loses to A and B. In my opinion, it's an objective indicator. I understand that this wasn't stated in this particular tournament, but there was also nothing about the coin toss, so you can quite easily apply any system you like.
P.S. I'm flattered, of course, when I'm given such chances (even theoretically).
BUT, I would personally assess my chances against the strong players in this tournament at no more than 40% at the moment, and my chances against the "noobs" at 20-30%:smile02:
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#99
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JonnyP - Alex_nv
Haven - Dungeon
" Дурак учится на своих ошибках, умный - на чужих, а мудрый старается их не совершать!
Пусть будет больше мудрецов и жить станет легче!!! "


Клан "ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Должность/Рейтинг: Мастер меча и магии/Арбалетчик
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#100
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I suggest using an analogue of the Berger coefficient to determine rankings: the sum of the points of opponents from the opposing team that a participant defeated, plus half the points of those they drew against. For example, Stefan has a KB of 24, and Eugene has a KB of 15. DVP has a KB of 48, and Dexterwar has a KB of 51. What do you think of this metric?
" Дурак учится на своих ошибках, умный - на чужих, а мудрый старается их не совершать!
Пусть будет больше мудрецов и жить станет легче!!! "


Клан "ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Должность/Рейтинг: Мастер меча и магии/Арбалетчик
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#101
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alex_nv
I suggest using an analogue of the Berger coefficient to determine the rankings: the sum of the points of opponents from the opposing group that the participant defeated, plus half the points of those they drew with. For example, Stefan has a KB of 24, and Eugene has a KB of 15. DVP has a KB of 48, and Dexterwar has a KB of 51. What do you think of this indicator?
Good idea. If it's not possible to hold an additional match, any idea to replace the random draw is better, in my opinion. Otherwise, we might end up in a situation where the final is 1-1, the third game is a draw, and the judges will flip a coin to decide the winner...
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#102
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alex_nv
I suggest using an analogue of the Berger coefficient to determine the rankings: the sum of the points of opponents from the opposing team that the participant defeated, plus half the points of those with whom they drew. For example, Stefan has a KB of 24, and Eugene has a KB of 15. DVP has a KB of 48, and Dexterwar has a KB of 51. What do you think of this indicator?
chudo_ud0
Good idea, if it's not possible to hold an additional match, then any idea to replace the random draw is better, in my opinion. Otherwise, we could end up in a situation where the final is 1-1, the third game is a draw, and the judges will flip a coin to decide the winner...
You've convinced me, I'm putting the KB coefficient back into the rules.
Initially, the specified coefficient was included in the rules, but I discussed it with alex_nv ;) and we decided to remove it... :D
I will correct the table this evening.
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#103
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And yet, this point can be described in more detail:
KillAndAction
- personal result of a game against players from opposing factions;
" Дурак учится на своих ошибках, умный - на чужих, а мудрый старается их не совершать!
Пусть будет больше мудрецов и жить станет легче!!! "


Клан "ХРАНИТЕЛИ НЕБЕСНЫХ ВРАТ" Должность/Рейтинг: Мастер меча и магии/Арбалетчик
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#104
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alex_nv
Still, could you elaborate on this point in more detail?
Well, if player A couldn't win against player C from other factions, but player B (who, like player A, plays with the same factions) won against player C, then player B is in a more advantageous position than player A.
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#105
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KillAndAction
Well, if player A couldn't win against player C from other factions, but player B (playing the same factions as player A) won against player C, then player B is in a more advantageous position than player A.
But player B lost to player E, whom he had won against before. Consequently, player A (from the same faction) is in a more advantageous position relative to player E; otherwise, why do they have the same number of points? And therefore, he is in a more advantageous position relative to player E, while another player is in a more advantageous position relative to player C. In short, without a coefficient, it's impossible to understand anything:smile04: