Connection ErrorBad RequestSession ExpiredSign in requiredForbiddenNot FoundToo Many RequestsServer ErrorBad GatewayService UnavailableGateway TimeoutHTTP Version Not Supported
Session Expired
Your session has expired. Please log in to continue.
Sign in required
You need an account to do that. Sign in or create one — it only takes a minute.
Request Failed
We encountered an issue while processing your request.
Please check your internet connection and try again.
Loga is still needed in the late game; without it, clearing the map will be much slower, and there will be no problem with capturing outposts. The only thing you lose is the Path of War, but that's not so terrible.
Is "much slower" really by a factor of 1.3? :-) In the late game that people usually talk about, Loga is not needed at all for clearing speed. You can still manage perfectly well without it.
Out of the four speed boosts (speed aura, boots, war, tactics), you need three for stacks with a speed of 5 to reach the enemy's large units, as you yourself noted, the war cry is not always available, the boots can be more interesting, and they may not reach even with tactics, and there is also a lower chance that an orc will reach small stacks.
Please note that I have already agreed that Tactics can be useful against orcs, but it may also be useless. Here, perhaps, it's a matter of player psychology. Personally, I don't like to take skills that may not work at all. And, returning to the beginning of the discussion, Tactics MAY be more useful than Cold specifically against orcs, but on average, across all races, IMHO, it is unlikely, because it is simply useless against several races. And I was describing an averaged build.
You came to an interesting conclusion. Cyclops are twice as tough as goblins and hit 1.5 times harder. It turns out that the damage/health ratio is higher for goblins, according to your calculations.
My conclusion is correct. The stack attacks, and it is attacked. Therefore, its conditional strength is the product of its damage and its health.
Actually, centaurs don't have to shoot with a bow; a kick will be much more painful.
Okay, we can also calculate for melee combat: damage=14*6*1.1 (approximately)=92.4 health=14*10*1.15 (approximately)=161. And for centaurs, the ratio will definitely not be better than 14-15 to 1. They will die almost immediately; they are no match for cyclops. The only exception is Haggesh. With her, the centaurs can approach the cyclops. But this is always the case with special units. The growth of princes under Lucy breaks the growth of level 7 units. And what the barbarians under Ingvar do...
Is it really 1.3 times better? :-) In the typical scenario described by others, logs aren't even needed for clearing speed. You'll have plenty of time to do it without them.
If you spend another month after clearing a huge map, then yes, logs are completely useless.
Fireball
Please note that I already agreed that Tactics against Orcs can be useful, or it might be useless. It probably depends on the players' psychology. Personally, I don't like taking skills that might not be useful at all. And, returning to the beginning of the discussion, Tactics CAN be more useful than Cold specifically against Orcs, but on average across all races, IMHO, it's unlikely, because against several races, it's simply useless. And I was describing an averaged build.
Against units with high damage, Tactics almost always pays off and provides significant benefits. Of course, it's useless against Necropolis or Academy.Fireball
My conclusion is correct. The stack attacks, and it is attacked. Therefore, it has a certain conditional strength - the product of its damage and its HP. The conditional strength of a stack is one thing, and the priority of its destruction is something else entirely. According to your formula, the fatter the stack with the same damage, the higher its priority. Okay, we can also estimate for melee: damage=14*6*1.1 (approximately)=92.4 hp=14*10*1.15 (approximately)=161. And for Centaurs, the ratio will definitely not be better than 14-15 to 1. They will die almost immediately; they are no match for Cyclops. The only exception is Haggesh. With her, the horsemen can join the Cyclops. But that's always the case with specialized units. The growth of Princes under Lucy surpasses the growth of level 7 units. And what the bearded ones under Ingvar do...
It's more important to kill a fragile stack of Centaurs than fat Cyclops, even though the Cyclops stack is stronger in a vacuum in a 1-on-1 fight against Centaurs. What's not clear about that?
Fireball
10 years ago
Auto-translated
If you spend an entire month doing nothing after clearing a huge map, then yes, the Logistics skill is completely useless.
Judging by the fact that the late-game descriptions on the forum consistently mention 100+ units of level 7 in the army, people spend much longer.
"What's not clear here?"
Against units with high damage, the Tactics skill almost always pays off and provides significant benefits. Of course, it's useless against Necropolis or Academy.
But how does it perform against Elves or Demons? If they already have Boots of Swiftness + Aura, that's equal to a bunch of stacks with speed 9, 10, or 11.
And against Gnomes with the Energy Rune, Tactics is definitely effective.
In conclusion: Tactics is useless against 3 out of the races, and against the rest, it depends on the enemy's upgrades. And someone is still surprised that Cold was preferred over it in the general skill description?
"What's not clear here?"
It's more important to kill a fragile stack of Centaurs than fat Cyclops, even though a stack of Cyclops is stronger in a vacuum in a 1-on-1 fight against Centaurs.
It's EASIER to kill a fragile stack of Centaurs; one spell or an attack with elemental damage will take them out. You don't need to overwhelm them with a large force, but you do need to do that against Cyclops.
"What's not clear here?"
Judging by the fact that the forum descriptions consistently mention 100+ level 7 units in the army, they must be taking much longer. "What's not clear here?"
Well, maybe they're just slowly clearing the map.
Fireball
And how does it perform against elves or demons? If they already have boots + aura, that's a lot of stacks with speed 9, 10, or 11. And against a dwarf with an energy rune, tactics either work or they don't. In short: against 3 of the races, Tactics is useless; against the rest, it depends on the enemy's build. And someone is still surprised that in the general description of her upgrades, they preferred Cold over Tactics? "What's not clear here?"
Was that about the elf a joke? Dancing with a circular formation and using Tactics can be effective and deal a lot of damage. For Info, there's nothing interesting in the third perk slot for attack, except for Tactics, which increases attack options; it can help with reaching caves, for example. Dwarves really don't need Tactics that much.
Fireball
It's EASIER to kill a fragile stack of centaurs; 1 cast or an elemental attack will take care of it. You don't need to overwhelm it with a large group, but you do need to do that with cyclops. "What's not clear here?"
It's not a given that it will be killed with the first cast, as Rage can absorb a lot of damage. Orcs have plenty of damaging and not-so-durable stacks, and they deal a lot of damage while the entire army surrounds the cyclops.
Fireball
10 years ago
Auto-translated
Was that a joke about the Elf? Dancing with a circular formation tactic rushes in and deals damage.
No, it's not a joke. The Elf will definitely take Tactics, but even if you counter it with your own Tactics, the Dancers will reach them with their aura and boots. And the damage difference can only be significant if the formation allows you to "wedge" into the enemy troops. But allowing that against an Elf is just poor play.
There's nothing interesting in the third attack perk slot for the Info, except for Tactics, which increases the number of attacks; Cave Crawlers, for example, benefit from it.
I agree with this statement: Tactics increases the number of attacks! Both the Elf and the Demon will reach you. But the variability of their attacks will be greater if you don't take Tactics yourself. Is that unpleasant? Yes. Is it critical? Not necessarily. Specifically against the Elf and the Demon, I would regularly take Tactics for the Info – more variety and forcing the enemy to wear blue boots. But I would occasionally alternate it with Cold. As for some kind of universal build,
Gnomes really don't need Tactics that much.
it seems we've already reached a consensus. Against at least 3 races, Tactics is irrelevant. That's why I'm considering the Cold option; it's always useful. Of course, this doesn't negate the usefulness of Tactics in many builds for the remaining 4 races.
It's not a given that it will work from the first cast, as Rage can absorb a lot of damage. Orcs have enough damaging and not very durable stacks, and they deal a lot of damage while the entire army surrounds the Cyclops.
The essence of Tactics through elements is to hit rarely, but accurately. Again, a little arithmetic. Let's look at the damage from the Witch's growth (by the way, not the most damaging stack for the Info; Fighters or Lizards will deal more damage) against the Centaurs, who run in to attack, even without Cold: Witch's growth damage: 23*2*1.8=82.8 We shoot them, of course, at the opposing element, i.e., +200% damage. Total: 248.4 The Centaur stack has 140 HP, and Rage has 400. This is enough for 47 damage absorption. There's no need to calculate; the Centaurs fall with one shot. This is the point: with this build, the Info is very dependent on luck. If you're lucky with the elements, you can take out damaging stacks. The exception is Cyclops; you'll have to attack them with a crowd. It's profitable to attack damaging stacks when the elements add up. You need to attack Cyclops at the right time, which often doesn't happen immediately, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all because it's too late. As for the hero's spell, much depends on the Lucky Charm and the presence of Dampening. With Dampening, it's not very effective to attack Centaurs, I agree. You'll probably deal decent damage, but not completely. However, this raises the question: if your opponent has Dampening, why aren't you playing Dark? After all, one of the most important aspects of fighting the Orc is tormenting him with the question, "What are you going to suppress?" But that's a completely different topic. The main thing is that the Info has stacks that, with elements, can take out a damaging, but not very thick, stack of Barbarians in one turn.
No, it's not a joke. An Elf will definitely take Tactics, but even if you counter it with your own Tactics, the Dancers will reach the target with their aura and boots. The damage difference can only occur if the formation allows you to "wedge" into the enemy troops. And allowing this against an Elf is a sign of incompetence.
With a speed of 8 (without Tactics), there is a high probability that the Dancers will only reach one stack, which is not very effective. With Tactics, they will almost always reach at least 2 stacks. Fireball
I agree with this formulation: Tactics increases the options! Both the Elf and the Demon will reach the target. But the variability of their attacks will be greater if you don't take Tactics yourself. Is that unpleasant? Yes. Is it critical? Not necessarily. Specifically against the Elf and the Demon, I would regularly take Tactics for the Elf Archer - more variety + forcing the enemy to wear blue boots. But I would periodically alternate it with Cold. As for some kind of universal upgrade,
is the ability to eliminate key stacks at the right moment not critical?
Fireball
The essence of Tactics through elements is to strike rarely, but accurately. Again, a little arithmetic. Let's consider the damage from the Witch's attack (by the way, not the most damaging stack for the Elf Archer; Dracols or Lizards will deal more damage) against the Centaurs who came to attack with their hooves, even without Cold. Witch's attack damage: 23*2*1.8=82.8 We shoot them, of course, at the opposing element, i.e., +200% damage. Total: 248.4 The Centaur stack has 140 HP, and the Fury has 400. This is enough for 47 damage absorption. Never mind calculating, the Centaurs fall with one shot. This is the point: with this upgrade, the Elf Archer is very random-dependent. If you're lucky with the elements, you eliminate stacks. The exception is Cyclops; you'll have to attack them with a large group. It is advantageous to attack damaging stacks when the elements add to the damage. You need to attack the Cyclops AT THE RIGHT TIME; often, this right time doesn't come immediately, and sometimes it doesn't come at all because it's too late. As for the hero's build, much depends on the Lucky Charm and the presence of a Silence spell. With Silence, it's somehow not effective to attack Centaurs, I agree. Most likely, you'll deal decent damage, but not completely. However, this immediately raises the question: if your opponent has taken Silence, why aren't you playing as Dark? After all, one of the most important aspects of fighting an Orc is to torment him with the question, "What are you going to Silence?" But that's a completely different topic. The main thing is that the Elf Archer has stacks that, with elements, can eliminate a damaging, but not very thick, stack of Barbarians in one turn.
The point is that in this match, one-shot kills constantly occur, and whoever strikes first wins. The Furies go first; if the element doesn't work, the Orc is in a good position. If it does work and with good luck, it's very unpleasant. The Archer's shot is weak, and the poison doesn't depend on the element. Then the initiative goes to the Orc: Shamans, Cyclops (with the Chieftain's buff), and Warriors attack before the Lizards and Dracols. Centaurs and Ducks attack at approximately the same time as the Lizards and Dracols. There are cases when a unit with 9 initiative overtakes a unit with 11 initiative, but randomness always plays a big role in Heroes. After the Orc's attack, it's not certain that there will be anything left to attack the League with. This is without taking into account artifacts for initiative, but with the +1 initiative from Chieftains. Orcs can more easily gain an initiative advantage through artifacts. For example, they can take the Necropolis Staff for a weapon slot, while the League has it occupied by an axe, and then the League won't even attack. In general, in the late game against the League without defense, you don't need to Silence anything at all; you can take Luck for reliability and go kill, like Wing. And there's also a cheesy strategy with only Cyclops, 2 stacks of Shamans, and 4 stacks of Chieftains.
Fireball
10 years ago
Auto-translated
At a speed of 8 (without tactics), there is a high probability that the "dances" will only affect one stack, which is not very fun. With tactics, it will almost always be at least 2.
With full armies, the probability of reaching only one stack without tactics is low. No more than 0.5 STRICTLY (and 0.4 if you don't mess up). Taking into account the standard cover of archers of all types, it is about 0.2. And in what way is it high?
Is the ability to eliminate key stacks at the right moment not critical?
3 stacks of elves without tactics have a speed of 9, 2 of them are flying, and 2 more shoot. The elf will always reach the key stacks. As for demons, tactics regularly HURT them against Might and Magic. An example from real life. A demon with tactics moved its stacks, but the furies went first. The girls had an excellent choice of stacks, they could reach several, which means there was an opportunity to choose who to attack to deal with the elements. The horses were hit and a stack was immediately destroyed (due to the pit, they grew noticeably more). By the way, they would destroy a stack of dogs even without elements if they attacked in numbers. The dogs thinned out the Might and Magic troops, but there were still enough lizards left to carry away either the devils or the alt-lizards. Again, there is a choice of who to attack based on elements. In fact, they carried away the devils, and the lizardmen fought. The heroes hadn't gone yet, but the battle was essentially over, and even with a Might and Magic victory. I remember being very surprised at the time, it's a pity that replays have long been lost. Hence, a simple conclusion: if the initiative is not in your favor, tactics can easily destroy the one who used them. And the one who didn't use them will win. Only the elf can be sure of his initiative, and even then, with Winged Boots. Maybe a mage too.
The point is that in this match, one-shot kills happen constantly, and whoever strikes first wins. The furies go first, if the elemental doesn't work, then the orc is doing well, if it does and with luck, then it's very unpleasant.
The furies will have such a choice that you can consider the elemental to have worked for sure, and Luck with a probability of 0.5. (if there are no tactics, with tactics the probability of the elemental is almost always 7/16, but it can be even higher). At the start, the orc has very little Fury, if there is no Champion Artifact. The furies will destroy any stack except cyclops and, perhaps, leaders. With luck, they can easily destroy the cyclops as well.
The archers' shot is weak, and the poison does not depend on the elemental.
No archers, only invisibility and we wait for our stack to cut them down with elements.
Next, the initiative is with the orc: shamans, cyclops (with the leader's boost) and warriors go before the lizards and dragons.
Yes, if the furies didn't destroy any of them. And if several possible elementals appear, the initiative is the first choice for attack. Sometimes the furies are even sacrificed if it blocks the desired stack and then allows the lizardmen to spread out comfortably. So, in the average scenario, let's say the shamans were destroyed, the leaders boosted the cyclops. And these may not even reach where they need to go. Why? Because units with a base initiative of 12 in the final game usually have an initiative of 14+ and go before the hero with Officer skill. The warriors go at the same time as the lizards. If they stood next to the leaders, then again, they may not reach, because see above. But if the lizards go intact, then the orc again loses a stack with a very high probability. If it randomizes and destroys something with initiative, the dragons will also destroy their stack. If you carefully sum up all the scenarios and all the probabilities, the outcome will be in favor of the orc, no need to consult a fortune teller. But when we are discussing the late game for Might and Magic, we should immediately forget about trying to come up with a mega-tactic to defeat everyone. At most, it is tactics and upgrades in which Might and Magic can win with some luck. In particular, the reasoning above shows quite real scenarios for victory, which will become even more real if you randomize the initiative (artifacts + starting distribution) and elements. Plus, you can periodically catch the orc on Darkness and Officer skill, making him always take the Darkness skill. If you manage to win 3-4 times out of 10, then the goal has been achieved, you shouldn't expect more from Might and Magic in the late game.
In terms of slots, it is easier for orcs to gain an initiative advantage through artifacts. For example, you can take the Necromancer's Staff for the weapon slot, but for the League, it is occupied by an axe, and then the League won't go.
I agree, that's why it's 3-4 out of 10.
In general, in the deep late game against the League without protection, you can not suppress anything at all, but take luck for reliability and go to kill, a la Winged Boots. And there is also a cheater strategy with only cyclops, 2 stacks of shamans and 4 stacks of leaders.
This has been considered and tried many times :-) Officer skill + Darkness + staff + cloak of deadly shadows (Tactics and Readiness also help) = very good chances of winning against the orc without the Darkness skill for any race. With tactics and a boost, the expected number of hits from cyclops is something like 2 (too lazy to calculate exactly) and this is without blocking and reducing their initiative by fast creatures and with maximum morale. And this is an approximation with good artifacts for initiative for the barbarian. Without the Darkness skill, these are not the scenarios that will please a strong orc in the late game. And there have been quite a few failures when the cyclops didn't even reach the enemy, but immediately went to kick their own.
With full armies, the probability of reaching only one stack without tactics is STRICTLY no more than 0.5 (and 0.4 if you don't mess up). Considering the standard screen of archers of all kinds, it's around 0.2. In what way is that high?
With a speed of 8, there is only 1 cell to attack the enemy's second row; if only 1 stack is reached from it, then the dancing with the circular tactic didn't pay off. With tactics, there are 5 such cells, and one cell from which they reach the first time. Do you really not see the difference? Fireball
3 stacks of an elf without tactics have a speed of 9+, 2 of them are flyers, and another 2 are shooters. The elf will always reach the key stacks.
Ents also want to run far. Fireball
As for demons, tactics regularly HURT them against TE. An example strictly from life. A demon using tactics moved his stacks, and the furies moved first. The girls had an excellent choice of stacks, reaching several, which meant there was an opportunity to choose who to hit to align with the elements. The horses took the hit and a stack was wiped out immediately (thanks to the pit, they grew significantly more); by the way, they would wipe out a stack of dogs even without elements if it were N on N. The TE dogs thinned the troops, but a decent amount of lizards remained, enough to take out either the devils or the alt-lizards. Again, there is a choice of whom to hit based on elements. In fact, the devils were taken out, and the lizards fought the alt-lizards. The heroes hadn't moved yet, and the battle was essentially over, and with a TE victory. I remember being quite surprised at the time, a pity the screenshots have long since worn away.
Tactics can also be used by infamis to ban the league's tactics; no one is forcing them to deploy in the third row. Fireball
From here is a simple conclusion: if the initiative layout is not great, tactics can easily ruin the one who took them. And the one who specifically didn't take them will win. Only an elf can be sure of their initiative, and even then under Wing. Maybe a mage too.
If there is a mountain of initiative artifacts on a high-initiative race (not against Wing or a Mage), then one can indeed be very confident. Fireball
The furies will have such a choice that you can consider the elemental hit a certainty, and Luck with a probability of 0.5. (if without tactics, with tactics the probability of elements is almost always 7/16, but it can be more). At the start, the Orc's Fury is negligible, if without SA. Furies will take out any stack except cyclopes and, perhaps, chieftains. With luck, even the cyclopes can easily be wiped out.
Let's say one stack of furies is taken out, then the orc moves and takes out much more. Fireball
No aces, only invis and we wait for our stack to properly cut them down with elements.
If, of course, they survive until the second turn. Fireball
Yeah, if none of them were taken down by furies. And when several possible elemental hits occur, high-initiative units are the first choice for attack. Sometimes furies are even sacrificed if it blocks a needed stack and then allows the lizards to spread out conveniently. So in the average layout, let's say the shamans were taken out, the chieftains pushed the cyclopes. And it's not a fact that these will reach where they need to. Why? Because units with base initiative 12 in the endgame usually have initiative 14+ and move before the hero with OS Fighters basically move simultaneously with lizards. If they stood next to chieftains, then again it's not a fact they reach, because see above. But if the lizards move intact, then the orc again loses a stack with a very high probability. If it randomizes and takes something high-initiative, the lizards will take out another stack. If you carefully sum up all layouts and all probabilities, the result will be in favor of the orc, no need to ask a fortune teller. But when we discuss the late game for TE, we should immediately forget about attempts to come up with a mega-tactic to defeat eeeeveryone. The maximum is tactics and builds in which TE, with some luck, can win. In particular, the reasoning above shows quite realistic scenarios for victory, which will become completely realistic if the initiative (artifacts + starting spread) and elements randomize in their favor. Plus, you can periodically catch the orc with Darkness and OS, training him to always take Darkness suppression. If through all efforts it is possible to win 3-4 times out of 10, then the goal is achieved; more should not be expected from TE in the late game.
Laser cyclopes have an extra point of speed and will reach where they need to without problems (in the game, through tuning, only cyclopes with clubs), yes they contribute less, but their damage is enough against the cardboard league. If furies one-shot one orc stack, the fighters will be on their first fury with +2 speed and it's not a fact the league will manage to reduce the speed. Darkness can mess things up, that's true. Here it's a matter of who outsmarts whom, well, and the orc can always ignore all this and play the imba strat of tuning cyclopes.
Fireball
This has been calculated more than once :-) OS+Darkness+staff+cloak of deadly shadow (Tactics and Readiness also help) = very good chances of victory against an orc without suppression for any race. With tuning tactics, the mathematical expectation of the number of cyclops hits is something like 2 (too lazy to recalculate exactly) and this is without blocking and cutting them by high-initiative creatures and with maximum morale. And this is approximating juicy initiative artifacts for the Barbarian. Without Darkness suppression, these are not the scenarios that would satisfy a generally strong late-game orc. And there have been quite large disappointments when the cyclopes never reached the enemy and immediately started kicking their own.
Chaos in the late game doesn't need to be suppressed. When playing with tuning, 5 tunings from chieftains and the cyclopes will quickly reach and contribute, especially if they have good morale. Shield against berserk and skilled Darkness suppression are mandatory. This strat is imba and cannot be countered. Readiness still needs to be pressed in time, and it only works for one counterattack.
Fireball
10 years ago
Auto-translated
With an attack speed of 8, there is only 1 cell available to attack the second row of the enemy. If only 1 unit stack is within range, then the "dance" tactic is not justified. With this tactic, there are 5 cells and one cell from which you can reach the first row.
To understand how important the extra cell is, we need to consider just two questions: 1. What is the probability of hitting only 1 unit stack with the "dancers" without using the tactic? The answer to this was given earlier. If you don't mess up the positioning of the "dancers," take into account the ranged units, and the typical enemy formations, then this probability is 0.2-0.3. If this is not immediately clear, you can take a piece of paper and arrange 3 large and 4 small stacks of each faction. 2. What is the proportion of damage dealt by the "dancers" (let's assume they hit only one stack each) compared to the total damage of the entire elf army? Everyone either reaches or shoots; the stack itself is not the strongest. For damage, it accounts for about 10%. This means that by using the tactic and guaranteeing damage to another stack, the total damage increases by 2-3%. Even if it increases by 5%, the choice for the Elves is simple: accept one-time damage that is 2/3/5% higher or always deal 10% more damage. The choice is obvious; arguing with mathematics is pointless. An attentive reader might object: what if the damage of the Elves is 2-3 times greater (due to initiative, Wing, attacks on multiple units at once by the Elves, and problems with random elemental effects for the Elves), then maybe the tactic is more beneficial? It might be, but there is no point in discussing this scenario because the Elves will not become more resilient, which means it is a 100% loss for the Elves, whether with the tactic or without it.
Ents also want to move far.
Ents can reach their targets even without the tactic. Two flying units allow the Elves to easily find suitable terrain for the Ents, and their large size always provides options for choosing targets.
The "Infantry" tactic can also be used to counter the "League" tactic; no one forces you to place units in the third row.
You once said that the Elves need the tactic to block the Demon's "Tactic." I showed that this is not necessary; let the Demon be placed in the third cell. You say that the Demon will counter the Elves' tactic with its own. What is the logic? If the Elves' tactic will not work anyway, and the Demon is not planning to use it, then why should the Elves take it? There is another harsh fact: the Demon can do whatever it wants with the tactic, simply by taking Nibros, if necessary. This makes the "Tactic" even less useful for the Elves against the Demon.
If there are many artifacts for initiative on a high-initiative race (not against Wing or Mage), then you can be very confident.
If it's not Elves or Mages, then who is this "high-initiative race" against the Elves? The next highest initiative is the Demons, and there was a specific example of this above. All the others are not much more initiative than the Elves.
Let's say they destroy one stack of Fury; then the Orc will come and destroy much more.
More, but how much more, specifically until the turn of the Lizards and Dragons. The question of WHO the Fury destroyed is very important. If, with the tactic on both sides, the Fury destroyed the leaders (or, even more optimistically, Cyclops with luck), then the Elves still have a chance. There is no one to counter the Cyclops; the most dangerous stack is the Warriors.
Laser Cyclops have an extra point of speed and will reach their target without problems (in the game, only Cyclops with clubs are used); they deal less damage, but their damage is enough against the cardboard "League." If the Fury one-shot one stack of Orcs, then the Warriors will be on the first Fury with +2 speed, and it is not certain that the "League" will be able to reduce their speed. Darkness can interfere, yes. It all depends on who outsmarts whom.
The "League" is indeed fragile, and the Orc is a very inconvenient opponent for them; there is no dispute. All the tricks with "SA" or "Darkness," relying on randomness, and other tricks are all aimed at achieving the previously mentioned probability of victory of at least 0.3.
In the late game, Chaos can be ignored. When playing for a "build-up," 5 "build-up" from the leaders and the Cyclops will quickly reach their target and deal damage, especially if they are well-morale-boosted. The Berserk shield and the skillful "Darkness" spell are essential. This strategy is overpowered and cannot be countered.
I hope you wrote this in relation to the Elves/Orcs matchup; then it will just be a slight exaggeration. The Elves will still have a chance. Against other races, the "build-up" tactic is a particularly perverse form of suicide. But let's return to the Elves. Against the "build-up," the following are taken: "Outcast," "Tactic," "Defense," "Darkness," "Education" (by default in the late game), the Lion set, and the Necromancer's staff (can be +ring). The Fury go first, and with their boots, they destroy one stack of leaders. Then, as a rule, the Elves' hero goes, and specifically in the following ways: morale on the Fury, good random on the hero, good random on the Stalkers + morale on the Stalkers. In total, a probability of at least 0.7 is achieved. Then, "Subjugation" is used on the Shamans, who will destroy another stack of leaders, and at least one will remain after them. This means that the Orc has 4 "build-up" left (3 stacks of leaders + hero). The expected value of this scenario is already less than 2 hits from the Cyclops BEFORE the Elves' damage-dealing stacks start to move. Moreover, there is a 25% chance that there will be only 1 hit. In this scenario, the Elves' losses with "Defense" will not be critical, which means that the desired 30% probability of victory is not so far away. With 2 hits, everything will depend on the "Luck" and "Stun" skills. The outcome is probably in favor of the Orc, but there are options. With 3 hits, the Orc wins for sure, but the probability of this scenario is 1 in 8. As a result, the Elves again have about 30% chance of winning if they guess the right upgrades. There is no particular advantage of the "build-up" tactic compared to simply placing the entire army in a standard formation.
However, it should be noted that all the current and previous arguments are valid in scenarios where the Orc starts on level 0 of Fury, i.e., 1 castle against 1 castle (without "SA" and the amulet + "Overload" combination). If there are 3 castles against 3 castles (2 castles against 2 castles with "Overload"), and the Orcs start on level 1 of Fury, then the Elves' chances will plummet.
Added 10 hours 27 minutes ago
You also need to have time to press "Readiness," and it only works for one counterattack.
I am aware of this sad fact. But it gives the right to the first strike; with a good attack, this is generally pleasant; it interferes with the Cyclops. However, "Readiness" is not taken only for this. Almost everyone takes it from "Sturdy Defense." And the larger the map, the further into the late game, the more powerful this skill becomes, which, of course, you need to have time to press. Therefore, "Readiness" and "Sturdy Defense" are by no means a panacea, but they can regularly help.
Teodor
10 years ago
Auto-translated
so, is there a way to defeat an Orc with a Chaos enchantment or a Gnome in a very long late game?)
So, has a way appeared to defeat an Orc with a Chaos Dampener or a Dwarf in a very long late game?
Why prolong the tech game into a long late game? You can always take Darkness and the Orc with its Chaos Dampener will end up in the discard pile. Besides, you can assemble a decent set of artifacts and develop faster than the Orc by 2-3 times.
